Diverse stacks- do you like them? Or prefer to keep it simple? Let’s talk trends in stack building and what works for you

Mfras

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Howdy

TLDR: moderate diverse stacks vs ‘keep it simple’ - harm reduction and benefit maximization- what do you like and why?

Did some searching, didn’t find any juicy discussion. Of course everyone has different goals, tolerances, & responses to different compounds. I am interested in sparking a discussion and hearing opinions, history from your perspective if you’ve been around the block a few times, and what works for you- not specifically asking a question with a black & white answer. I know what I like but I’m curious how this topic changes with trends in bodybuilding and the trickle down to gym bros.

Of course the enhanced big risk taking size monsters are often starting with 1000+ test lots of primo or eq, then one or two more compounds. They are probably outside the scope of my intended topic here- I’m not so interested in talking about diversifying a stack because of diminishing returns of each compound at high dose.

I’ll start the discussion with my ideas and practice- hopefully I’ll get to hear yours!

For myself I really like the ‘keep it simple’ philosophy- anywhere from test only cruise to test & ai blasts work great, or something like test and a second compound because I want the specific effect and tolerate it well, like for example lower test and whatever amount of deca I need for a nice long bulk. Simple. My health/trt cruise phases are like this- I drop everything but some test.

But the more experience I got into experimenting with different compounds the more attractive it got to sprinkle in a little of this, a little of that into high cruise phases and blasts. It turns out that for me a little mast is like chocolate and peanut butter with almost anything- great mood lively bedroom. I found myself trying and enjoying low dose deca for smoother joints without trying to leverage strength out of it. It’s all very mild dosing but also easy to start wading into polypharmacy.

Lots of folks would rather dial in primo or eq as their AI and get some more anabolism out of controlling e2. Then there’s different tools for different jobs- examples would be Nand for wet bulk or tren for cutting or dry bulk, so many strategies that work for different people and different effects of different compounds, each with it’s own sides and risks. And some people find thresholds where benefits are there but sides are very minimal for a bunch of compounds.

Do you like to use a more diverse stack because the effects are complimentary? Or because the total anabolism gets boosted up with less risk of sides from each one? Do you have a few favorite compounds to achieve mass or a certain look but always also use mast or primo as well? Or do you keep it simple? Have you been at this long enough to see knowledge and trends change for better or worse over the years?
 
Keep it simple. Two, maybe 3 compounds if justifiable. An oral for plateaus.

Reminds me of when I was a beer homebrewer. At first you want to throw the kitchen sink at your recipes bc you want all the different flavors of malt and hops in there. You end up with a mess of a drink where the flavors are all muted and muddied. The best beers usually have a very simple grain bill. A base grain that makes up the majority, another grain for color or flavor, and a single hop variety.
KISS
 
Keep it simple. Two, maybe 3 compounds if justifiable. An oral for plateaus.

Reminds me of when I was a beer homebrewer. At first you want to throw the kitchen sink at your recipes bc you want all the different flavors of malt and hops in there. You end up with a mess of a drink where the flavors are all muted and muddied. The best beers usually have a very simple grain bill. A base grain that makes up the majority, another grain for color or flavor, and a single hop variety.
KISS
Dig it. A minimum of high quality ingredients often makes the best dish. But also if Test is steak and Deca/Npp is potatoes, then mast is salt/pepper/butter
 
Perfect thread for me to come back to

I love keeping it simple, and less is more tbh

You don't need 2-3g per week of total compounds, it's insane.

I do about 300 test 300 DHB a week and love it, I'm not the world's most disciplined guy so some days I'll miss the gym but this run keeps me so dense and loving every day. Great recovery and just overall great stack
I'm 6' 220 and play in my local rugby union


Only next thing I'd change is potentially test/mast OR test HGH
 
Perfect thread for me to come back to

I love keeping it simple, and less is more tbh

You don't need 2-3g per week of total compounds, it's insane.

I do about 300 test 300 DHB a week and love it, I'm not the world's most disciplined guy so some days I'll miss the gym but this run keeps me so dense and loving every day. Great recovery and just overall great stack
I'm 6' 220 and play in my local rugby union


Only next thing I'd change is potentially test/mast OR test HGH
Funny I’m currently running a 4-6 week experiment with tren because it’s the only compound I never ran and was still curious about. So far so good which is almost scarier than finding out low dose is intolerable- don’t want to fall in love with the harshest compound. Not trying to be ‘on cycle’ right now but so far it’s turning out that sides are not creeping in yet and benefits are starting to appear. DHB is on the scared of it/not interested in it list along with orals.

I really like mast but I sprinkle it in a cruise or use it in a blast for maybe a touch of anabolism but mostly it smooths the ride & keeps the bedroom lively. The Todd Lee John Jewett thing of running it high doesn’t make sense to me when I can put on mass easily with moderate NPP or deca. Not trying to fuck my lipids or grow a tennis ball sized prostate.

I had done a run of tesamorelin and enjoyed the results, followed by a lot of GH research and investing in a nice supply after trying some. I’m currently finishing a long cut on a high cruise including now up to 6iu/day and plan to keep like 2-4iu in for cruise and possibly 6-8 for shorter periods to compliment future blasts. With how cheap it is now there’s almost no reason not to use it as long as you keep an eye on igf-1 and z-score. Or of course if water sides make it intolerable.

Thanks for adding to the discussion though! This thread wasn’t meant to be a question with an answer, more like an opportunity to hear different viewpoints.

And yes 2-3g of gear per week is for the mutants only, whose stacks are designed partly by desired effects and partly by running the maximum of each compound before diminishing returns require diversification.

For me the test base is a given, lower dose mast is always there unless I’m in a health/trt phase, and a primary mass driver is added for a blast. It’s nice to have a good understanding of managing a handful of different compounds though so there are options.
 
I always use the same exact stacks for cut, bulk, cruise and just titrate up and down between them. Bread is always test, sometimes butter is EQ and Ment, sometimes it is Mast and Tren. I don’t care for image enhancing or dry/hardening In a bulk.

I like to use several/many compounds just up to the point before side effects come up. So I use AAS and GH, insulin to the point where it doesn’t affect health markers or quality of life. I think it should be kept as simple as possible, but since I know I can tolerate the effects of more compounds, Im not against adding them, I just don’t need to yet.

Right now 3 compounds is simple, because i am very familiar but if i stall and want to add another i will. To be prepared, I have 2 more compounds on hand, so— if push comes to shove i will be adding them.

Regarding 2-3g cycles, Im not against them whatsoever, I just don’t think my physique and size merits it yet.
 
I always use the same exact stacks for cut, bulk, cruise and just titrate up and down between them. Bread is always test, sometimes butter is EQ and Ment, sometimes it is Mast and Tren. I don’t care for image enhancing or dry/hardening In a bulk.

I like to use several/many compounds just up to the point before side effects come up. So I use AAS and GH, insulin to the point where it doesn’t affect health markers or quality of life. I think it should be kept as simple as possible, but since I know I can tolerate the effects of more compounds, Im not against adding them, I just don’t need to yet.

Right now 3 compounds is simple, because i am very familiar but if i stall and want to add another i will. To be prepared, I have 2 more compounds on hand, so— if push comes to shove i will be adding them.

Regarding 2-3g cycles, Im not against them whatsoever, I just don’t think my physique and size merits it yet.
Dig it. I’m in the same boat except I’m still like 3 months on my cut from being lean enough to plan a blast/lean bulk. But the philosophy in general matches my mindset.

And while insulin is obviously a key for some serious folks it’s on the too dangerous list for me and my goals/experience.
 
Dig it. I’m in the same boat except I’m still like 3 months on my cut from being lean enough to plan a blast/lean bulk. But the philosophy in general matches my mindset.

And while insulin is obviously a key for some serious folks it’s on the too dangerous list for me and my goals/experience.
Thats totally fair. I think having a set protocol takes a lot out of the planning element, it’s one of the pros of not having a “diverse” approach . So when it comes time to bulk it is just a matter of doing what was done previously (PED wise).

Yeah that is a responsible way of looking at it. Personally I am a fan of insulin, but I would not go to the extent that some guys, or coaches do. Just a little bit is very safe and seems to go a long way. it really is abuse that gets dangerous. For example if Im taking 180 carbs, I dont see the point of taking 18 or more units of insulin with it or any quantity that could be close to the what might be dangerous.
 
Funny I’m currently running a 4-6 week experiment with tren because it’s the only compound I never ran and was still curious about. So far so good which is almost scarier than finding out low dose is intolerable- don’t want to fall in love with the harshest compound. Not trying to be ‘on cycle’ right now but so far it’s turning out that sides are not creeping in yet and benefits are starting to appear.
Care to elaborate more on this tren experiment of yours? I'm currently running an experiment myself with it for my first dabble, 5mg Tren A daily, today is week 3. I'm a big believer of less is more with gear now that I'm older, back in the younger days it was just the common plan of attack to blast 500mg test e for 10 weeks, assess, then plan out the next cycle with higher doses. Since starting trt and monitoring my blood levels and dosing more religiously than prior cycles in the past, I've discovered I respond quite well(140mg weekly put me over 1400). Watched vigorous steve's video/presentation on the microdosing of tren to get the glucocorticoid receptor benefits at low dose and decided to give it a go for my first try. So far, feeling great, lifts are going up, vascularity and the look are changing almost daily. Added this in for the last stretch of my diet/cut to see what it can do. So far, extremely pleased. 3iu hgh nightly, 20mg test c daily, 5 mg tren a daily and that's it for now. Simple and effective!
 
Care to elaborate more on this tren experiment of yours? I'm currently running an experiment myself with it for my first dabble, 5mg Tren A daily, today is week 3. I'm a big believer of less is more with gear now that I'm older, back in the younger days it was just the common plan of attack to blast 500mg test e for 10 weeks, assess, then plan out the next cycle with higher doses. Since starting trt and monitoring my blood levels and dosing more religiously than prior cycles in the past, I've discovered I respond quite well(140mg weekly put me over 1400). Watched vigorous steve's video/presentation on the microdosing of tren to get the glucocorticoid receptor benefits at low dose and decided to give it a go for my first try. So far, feeling great, lifts are going up, vascularity and the look are changing almost daily. Added this in for the last stretch of my diet/cut to see what it can do. So far, extremely pleased. 3iu hgh nightly, 20mg test c daily, 5 mg tren a daily and that's it for now. Simple and effective!
I have an overly wordy thread in the cycle log subforum it you’d like to see my bad decisions up close. The cliff’s notes version is I started with the idea to titrate up slowly until sides presented, then try backing down or drop it. I thought it might last 3 weeks and get terrible and that would be the end of it. But basically nothing good or bad really happened so I started increasing the rate of titration. I wasn’t planning to go ‘on cycle’ just to explore my body’s reaction. I’m around 300mg/week now, no sides, hints of strength.
 
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Moderately Simple.

I think the longer you are in this, the less shiny new PEDs really garner substantial appeal.

Granted, the occasional compound comes out and it’s worth a try, but generally tried and true is better.

You also begin to really see how much more powerful consistency, diet and sleep are. So the luster of “the next great thing” is significantly less.

I consistently go back to tried and true stacks or compounds that work well with my physiology.

You also begin to realize how little you (most people) really need AIs and other ancillaries that simply complicate or in some cases inhibit gains.

Now a days, I don’t change much year to year.

Perhaps blast to blast on mg dosing depending on systemic fatigue and goals, but not much more.
 
I like a moderate of 4 compounds vs a lot of 1-2. High test just doesn't do well with me and I get near zero sides from low dose tren which really amplifies the cycle.

A blast for me is 1.5G. Instead of 1g test, 500 Deca I prefer something like:
400 Test, 500NPP, 150mg Tren, 50mg Var(cycled in and out).
 
I think a lot gets left on the table by trying to keep things overly simple. Different compounds have distinct effects, and pushing too much of any single one usually just leads to side effects. Too much test brings estradiol issues, too much deca skews DHN relative to DHT, too much tren causes sweats and mood problems, and too much EQ or primo can crash E2.

What’s worked best for me is a Test + EQ + Mast + low-dose Tren base. Test and EQ let you push total milligrams cost-effectively, Mast gives you better control over estrogen while allowing it to sit a bit higher for improved IGF-1 conversion, and low-dose Tren adds its unique glucocorticoid antagonism without the typical high-dose downsides.

On top of that, GH, MOTS-C, and retatrutide leveraged with fasted cardio keeps fat away and insulin sensitivity high. At this point, I honestly view all of these as core components.

I no longer see much need for orals, clen, or anything exotic. I know calling seven compounds “essential” sounds excessive especially when plenty of people do great on just test and an AI but I never responded well to test alone and could never truly dial in an AI. Adding the peptides was a major turning point for me compared to gear and GH alone. Reta, and mots-c in a surplus were game changers for the size of a surplus I could run.
 
what relative doses worked for you?
675T, 200EQ, 200Mast, and 100 Tren is where I'm at right now. 2:1 Test to EQ and my E2 is <10. Have my E2 at 70 rn and no gyno w/ mast. In the past I would get gyno w/ E2 in the 30s.... I'm new to tren so I've never gone higher than this dose, but I don't think I ever will attempt to raise the Tren higher because it is just working amazingly at 100mg. Crazy I was on over a gram of gear and then just 100mg of Tren E made a noticeable difference in rate of gain.

For da peppies I do 2iu GH AM, 1mg Mots-c AM, 4.5iu GH PM, then 3mg reta. After 3mg reta my digestion is too slow for the 4700 cals I'm targetting and I get nasty ass sulfur burps from rotting food in my GI. 3mg is perfect though!
 
675T, 200EQ, 200Mast, and 100 Tren is where I'm at right now. 2:1 Test to EQ and my E2 is <10. Have my E2 at 70 rn and no gyno w/ mast. In the past I would get gyno w/ E2 in the 30s.... I'm new to tren so I've never gone higher than this dose, but I don't think I ever will attempt to raise the Tren higher because it is just working amazingly at 100mg. Crazy I was on over a gram of gear and then just 100mg of Tren E made a noticeable difference in rate of gain.

For da peppies I do 2iu GH AM, 1mg Mots-c AM, 4.5iu GH PM, then 3mg reta. After 3mg reta my digestion is too slow for the 4700 cals I'm targetting and I get nasty ass sulfur burps from rotting food in my GI. 3mg is perfect though!
You do a bolus once a week reta? I was on 2mg/week for months then went up to 3 then 4 where it’s stayed, but I split it tues/fri. Still hungry and no digestive issues, the food noise & appetite suppression were present for a few weeks after titration but I don’t notice now. Mainly in for the insulin sensitivity esp w GH in the picture too.
 
You do a bolus once a week reta? I was on 2mg/week for months then went up to 3 then 4 where it’s stayed, but I split it tues/fri. Still hungry and no digestive issues, the food noise & appetite suppression were present for a few weeks after titration but I don’t notice now. Mainly in for the insulin sensitivity esp w GH in the picture too.
I split M/Th
What are your calories at?
 

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