Do you feel like academic pressure on kids is too much nowadays?

[Demondosage]

I guess what I’m asking here is pertaining to academic pressure on kids without the emphasis on social development. It seems like something is missing with a lot of kids when it comes to socializing and building quality characteristics. It just seems like grades are the only thing that’s put on kids anymore and I feel like we all knew those kids that strives for perfect A’s only to end up fucking up at life down the road. What do you guys think?

 

[hijoshiki]

This is a philosophical question.

Do you want a life that is purposed to meet the needs and desires of people.

Or do you want a life that is cold, rational, analytical.

Western society is adopting the Asian model. You slave in school, you slave at work, you make good money and that makes up for everything you deny yourself. That is until start questioning this, which they hope you'll never do.


All comes down to tax revenue.

The public school system doesn't care if your kid is miserable and alone, that's not the purpose of school, they want you to get a good job and pay your taxes.

Straight A's don't matter. I would take a kid with C's and D's that took really hard classes than someone with A's that took bullshit to keep their GPA up. There's nothing wrong with taking a really hard class and getting a C-.

The formula for public education is the problem, we need kids to learn and expand their curiosity, give them a toolset so they can create. Not build up this fear of failure, terror and dread of not being perfect. You want the kid that has to take a really hard class 3 times in row before they pass it, that's the kind of kid that goes on to do something, not these kids obsessed with getting credentials and a cushy job that are a dime a dozen.

 

[hijoshiki]

John D. Rockefeller, philanthropist and one of the masterminds behind compulsory schooling: “I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers.”

Heidegger's "Supreme Danger" is when you are thrown into something of which you had no decision in creating. The importance of Common Grounding and the quest for Optimization are polar opposites. We have gone from being "Subjects with potential", to "Objects for optimization and efficiency", thus losing our purpose, which is to create a world that works well for mankind and serves his needs. We create a generation of kids brought up on technology from which they had no choice in creating and that seems to be working against kids that were far better socialized and grounded in previous generations then they are today and this goes back 2500 years of known civilization where efficiency and standardization were unknown concepts and life occurred at a natural pace.

Socializing kids should be done to provide a solid ground, but what passes as socializing in school are projects meant to compare and compete with each other(sizing you up), but they disguise it as "working together". Instead we need to teach kindness, compassion, empathy towards the stranger and friend. This goes against our way of life in this country, the modern age doesn't want this because it empowers a generation that is connected to each other, it reduces efficiency in the sense that people no longer view each other as competition, but instead as their brother and sisters. This isn't what America wants, it wants war, death and destruction, we are moving our people towards something that no one chose, it was foisted on us by men with evil intentions(industrialist like Rockeffeller) and we are seeing the poison fruit it bears with a nihilism that is over taking our youth, where they become so frustrated they would rather be destructive or suicidal than forced to live out a long life like this.

America has to stop "othering" each other, going to have to stop teaching suspicion of others motives. And bring people together. What I see life becoming is a series of try-outs and eliminations, artificial scarcity when it comes to generosity, especially when it comes to kindness towards each other. We have championed the dickheads at our expense.

 

[Demondosage]

This is a philosophical question.

Do you want a life that is purposed to meet the needs and desires of people.

Or do you want a life that is cold, rational, analytical.

Western society is adopting the Asian model. You slave in school, you slave at work, you make good money and that makes up for everything you deny yourself. That is until start questioning this, which they hope you'll never do.


All comes down to tax revenue.

The public school system doesn't care if your kid is miserable and alone, that's not the purpose of school, they want you to get a good job and pay your taxes.

Straight A's don't matter. I would take a kid with C's and D's that took really hard classes than someone with A's that took bullshit to keep their GPA up. There's nothing wrong with taking a really hard class and getting a C-.

The formula for public education is the problem, we need kids to learn and expand their curiosity, give them a toolset so they can create. Not build up this fear of failure, terror and dread of not being perfect. You want the kid that has to take a really hard class 3 times in row before they pass it, that's the kind of kid that goes on to do something, not these kids obsessed with getting credentials and a cushy job that are a dime a dozen.

I agree

 

[Footfetishguy]

Kids have it fucking easy nowadays.

When I was 15yo I worked full time, went to school, and still had to do chores and various shit around my house. Nowadays kids live with their parents until their 25yo and barely attend a physical school because of virtual learning. They don’t even have to get dressed or get up early.

Kids don’t even get spanked by their parents anymore because it’s considered child abuse. When I was a kid I would get my ass beat if I mumbled wrong.

 

[hijoshiki]

Kids have it fucking easy nowadays.

When I was 15yo I worked full time, went to school, and still had to do chores and various shit around my house. Nowadays kids live with their parents until their 25yo and barely attend a physical school because of virtual learning. They don’t even have to get dressed or get up early.

Kids don’t even get spanked by their parents anymore because it’s considered child abuse. When I was a kid I would get my ass beat if I mumbled wrong.

I wouldn't trade my childhood for what kids have today for a million dollars.

Sure you got smacked around, in my case even beaten the shit out of by a sadistic alcoholic step dad.

That said the freedom I had when I was a kid, was something kids today couldn't dream of.

There's always the worry about the future with today's kids, what will they do to make a living. These kids today have that gnawing at them from the time they go to elementary school.

I suspect this kind of over planning and micromanaging of kids lives is gonna come back to bite future generations in the ass when they turn on the older generations and send them up the river with no paddle for the shit they put kids through for no good reason.

We have basically planned the kids lives for them, they weren't allowed to use their imagination even if it was just make-believe. We instead gave them a schedule with their itinerary.

People will say the kids today are soft, I suspect that is true, but that is what we did to them. We handed them a stupid phone, we told them to hurry up and get home from school so they could study and do their 4hrs of school work every night.

Past generations had nothing like that, sure if you were raised a farm kid you probably had lots of responsibilities and you were trapped in a miserable prison, but many of us from the 50's-80's grew in an era where we had it pretty damn good by today's standards. Even when I graduated from college I was able to get an apartment for $200/month a duplex, life was easy back then. Now kids are expected to come up with $1500/month for the privilege of not being homeless.

The low hanging fruit has been picked, the population has doubled since my childhood, the good times are over.

I hope we don't end up living like the Asians stacked on each other, working long hours just to exist, but I fear Americans are too stupid to have the wisdom and the courage to carry out population control that is absolutely necessary to prevent the nightmare that is gonna happen if our population grows to 500+ million.

 

[jJjburton]

I wouldn't trade my childhood for what kids have today for a million dollars.

Sure you got smacked around, in my case even beaten the shit out of by a sadistic alcoholic step dad.

That said the freedom I had when I was a kid, was something kids today couldn't dream of.

There's always the worry about the future with today's kids, what will they do to make a living. These kids today have that gnawing at them from the time they go to elementary school.

I suspect this kind of over planning and micromanaging of kids lives is gonna come back to bite future generations in the ass when they turn on the older generations and send them up the river with no paddle for the shit they put kids through for no good reason.

We have basically planned the kids lives for them, they weren't allowed to use their imagination even if it was just make-believe. We instead gave them a schedule with their itinerary.

People will say the kids today are soft, I suspect that is true, but that is what we did to them. We handed them a stupid phone, we told them to hurry up and get home from school so they could study and do their 4hrs of school work every night.

Past generations had nothing like that, sure if you were raised a farm kid you probably had lots of responsibilities and you were trapped in a miserable prison, but many of us from the 50's-80's grew in an era where we had it pretty damn good by today's standards. Even when I graduated from college I was able to get an apartment for $200/month a duplex, life was easy back then. Now kids are expected to come up with $1500/month for the privilege of not being homeless.

The low hanging fruit has been picked, the population has doubled since my childhood, the good times are over.

I hope we don't end up living like the Asians stacked on each other, working long hours just to exist, but I fear Americans are too stupid to have the wisdom and the courage to carry out population control that is absolutely necessary to prevent the nightmare that is gonna happen if our population grows to 500+ million.

And this is exactly what the generation said before you, and theres them. It will continue that way over and over. I will be saying that to the kids after me.

Dam kids get off my lawn, type of thing

 

[TrenTrenTren]

No. We as a nation have gotten very dumb. Here is an 8th grade test from rural Kansas in 1895. No one here, including me, would be able to pass it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/16/heres-the-famous-1895-eighth-grade-test-from-kansas-see-how-you-would-do/

 

[Demondosage]

No. We as a nation have gotten very dumb. Here is an 8th grade test from rural Kansas in 1895. No one here, including me, would be able to pass it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/16/heres-the-famous-1895-eighth-grade-test-from-kansas-see-how-you-would-do/

I would fail, haha. But it looks relevant to their time and environment and more practical application to life than the shit kids learn now

 

[hijoshiki]

No. We as a nation have gotten very dumb. Here is an 8th grade test from rural Kansas in 1895. No one here, including me, would be able to pass it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/16/heres-the-famous-1895-eighth-grade-test-from-kansas-see-how-you-would-do/

The problem is Grammar and Orthography is completely made up, they are arbitrary. Noam Chomsky has written extensively about language, the human brain is incapable of not developing a language and a form of communication. Kids are a sponge when they are young. If all languages disappeared tomorrow, you'd have all new languages popping up all over the place among different cultures fairly quickly and they would eventually establish standards and make up rules for you to memorize.

There's been a lot of debate whether grammar and spelling are even important, one could be impeccable in these areas and have nothing interesting to state. However someone like Richard Feynman the famous physicists that helped on the Manhattan project regularly spelled words wrong and when asked he stated because he didn't care.

These kids didn't have Google back in the day. They flexed their brains in different ways 100+ years ago, mostly through memorizing.

If you go back 2000 years there where those that memorized vast amounts of text and could recite them. Homer's writings, 10,000 pages of Buddhist Pali Scriptures, the Vedas. It's pretty astonishing what a person can memorize without error.

The problem is it doesn't teach you to think critically. I'd rather have a kid that was immersed in philosophy and math, that way he can figure out just about anything that comes in front of him.

As for the 1895 test, these kids didn't just have these questions out of the blue, they studied these topics, they were prepared for the test. I had to do a lot of memorization myself in school, especially in college, it was ridiculous where we were handed 500 pages of printouts you were expected to memorize more or less by the end of the semester, this is fine as I needed this knowledge to pass exams.

I don't think kids are dumber today, I think the school system is little more than a baby sitter and even the so called gifted classes aren't exposing students to anything other than preparing for standardized tests for higher placement.

If a kid from China took the 1895 test he wouldn't be able to answer any of the questions. Someone from Japan the same.

What can I do with the knowledge from the 1895 test. Nothing. You have a head filled with some rules and some knowledge that won't do anything for you at all.

Now don't get me wrong, I met a lot of Grammar bitches from previous generations, women that were obsessed with every rule of writing. They memorized those arbitrary rules and damn-it you were gonna obey them or you were a dumb ass. So when they'd do that I'd write out a differential equation and tell them to solve it, that shut them up.

 

[Jayne Scott]

I guess what I’m asking here is pertaining to academic pressure on kids without the emphasis on social development. It seems like something is missing with a lot of kids when it comes to socializing and building quality characteristics. It just seems like grades are the only thing that’s put on kids anymore and I feel like we all knew those kids that strives for perfect A’s only to end up fucking up at life down the road. What do you guys think?

Good point made here.

 

[David44]

No. We as a nation have gotten very dumb. Here is an 8th grade test from rural Kansas in 1895. No one here, including me, would be able to pass it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/16/heres-the-famous-1895-eighth-grade-test-from-kansas-see-how-you-would-do/

Bro are you nuts? This is literally basic kids math and very simple questions.

The math part of the test is mostly rule of three and the other stuff only requires you to read some stuff before attending the test

This is perfect for 8th Grades

 

[David44]

Google some Chinese 8th trade tests ,those are fucking ridiculous

 

[Demondosage]

Bro are you nuts? This is literally basic kids math and very simple questions.

The math part of the test is mostly rule of three and the other stuff only requires you to read some stuff before attending the test

This is perfect for 8th Grades

Well thanks, I feel even dumber now

 

[koolio]

President bush initiated no child left behind in 2002...all teachers were then required to follow an academic pacing guide...for example, teachers are required to provide instruction on a concept and that concept may be given one week to be mastered....if 50% of the students have not mastered that concept well then that is too bad...the teacher must move on to the next concept that more than likely requires mastery of the previous concept...let's take a simple algebra concept...week 1 would require students to know the answer to x+5=10...the answer is x=5...the next week they may be required to know that 5x+10=20...the answer is x=2...if the student fails to meet this standard then too bad...this pacing guide is required in all courses...there is no going back to reteach to a kid that missed a few days due to illness or even being kicked out of their home......it was always my belief that higher rated school systems wanted this in order to make them feel superior to poorer school systems...

 

[hijoshiki]

President bush initiated no child left behind in 2002...all teachers were then required to follow an academic pacing guide...for example, teachers are required to provide instruction on a concept and that concept may be given one week to be mastered....if 50% of the students have not mastered that concept well then that is too bad...the teacher must move on to the next concept that more than likely requires mastery of the previous concept...let's take a simple algebra concept...week 1 would require students to know the answer to x+5=10...the answer is x=5...the next week they may be required to know that 5x+10=20...the answer is x=2...if the student fails to meet this standard then too bad...this pacing guide is required in all courses...there is no going back to reteach to a kid that missed a few days due to illness or even being kicked out of their home......it was always my belief that higher rated school systems wanted this in order to make them feel superior to poorer school systems...

I have never learned anything from a teacher's lecture in a classroom. I have always learned everything I know on my own studying.

Think of it like learning to play a musical instrument, you grab your elementary book, intermediate and eventually advanced books and work yourself up to a high level. It's only through hours of practice alone do you get really good. I never progressed or got my chops up in music class, it was only when I sought out a private teacher(professional musician) and did a little too much practice that I could play like I wanted.

Same thing with school, you want to get good at something, staring a chalkboard all day isn't gonna do it(it's passive), that's a waste of time. Those 8hrs a day spent in class are completely flushed down the toilet and I think it's a gross waste neglecting better methods to get a good education.

Private teacher or tutor, lots of studying, tutor to ask questions when you come across something you don't understand. That's how you get the best bang for the buck.

Of course that's not the real reason for public education, it's to condition kids to their future lives as wage slaves, clocking in and being imprisoned to a 40-60hr work week. The kids can make a seamless transition from school to work like a person that has always been locked up in prison has no idea what freedom is.