Currently on 400/400mgs test p tren a on week 7 started losing definition and getting a smoother fuller look about a week ago. I'm not on any AI but I have Nolva if that could work while on cycle? I don't mind the extra puffiness since I'm bulking feels like I'm on dbol. just wondering if I were to take AI or nolva would it slowdown my gains?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
does AI kill gains?
- Thread starter bjlw2009
- Start date
Krad
Member
MisterSuperGod
Well-known Member
Nolva will only block estrogen, it won't actually lower it, like Adex will. So you'd still have that smooth look.
Unless you're getting the puffy/itchy nips, hold off on the Nolva.
Unless you're getting the puffy/itchy nips, hold off on the Nolva.
Yea u would think that 400mgs of tren would over power 400mgs of test and keep me hard n dry looking but I guess not for the first 4 weeks I looked hard and vascular now its the opposite I look puffy like I'm on dbol lol
Ok and for my pct I was gonna do clomid 100/100/50/50 nolva 20/20/20/20 how's that for pct?
MisterSuperGod
Well-known Member
That seems about right. i haven't done a PCT in years though, and now i'm a lifer (TRT) so i'd think someone that does this on the regular is a little more qualified than me to give a thumbs up.
trestisbest
New Member
That's not how it works. It's highly likely that your E2 is high. It doesn't matter if you're on tren; you're going to be holding water, regardless.
Have you ran 400mg of test before? If so, how did you dose your AI for that cycle? If not, then why are you running tren? You should have the basics down before even considering something like tren.
Ive ran up to 800mgs of test never used AI. only Cycle then pct so far tren has blown away my previous test npp dbol cycle as far as results go and side effects havent rlly gotten any besides cardio issues
Alex.stmpnk
New Member
I’ve read that nolvadex reduces IGF-1 and thus hinders muscle gains; I rather use an AI than a SERM.
Nolvadex helped me a lot to reduce chest fat deposits; but used to feel not so good while on it; after reading a lot about nolvadex it seems it is quite toxic in the long term while Arimidex appears to have less side effects and less serious as well
Nolvadex helped me a lot to reduce chest fat deposits; but used to feel not so good while on it; after reading a lot about nolvadex it seems it is quite toxic in the long term while Arimidex appears to have less side effects and less serious as well
What's your blood work say?
Oldschool
Member
Uhhh,,,,bloodwork?
I know....right?
EcpertRealistic
Banned
If you keep your estrogen around 40 it will not kill gains. Anything below 20 will slow growth.
50 and above is when you start retaining water
No. That's not true. You do realize there's a thread devoted to your dumbassery?
tenpoundsleft
Member
I think the TT/E2 ratio should ideally be in the 25-30 range.
The studies about this (that I've seen) focus on normal humans, so I don't know how far out that ratio works with the seriously supraphysiological test levels people use here, but it's a ratio, not an absolute number to fixate on.
So, if your TT is 3,000 this suggests that you can, or should actually, carry E2 at around 100-120.
Note that your symptoms should also be considered, not just run by numbers.
@Docd187123
@Robfromga
I don't get gyno, or at least haven't let me E2 get high enough to find out. It's been in the high 50s. No real bloat either. But what's fine for me, might give someone else triple D's. I don't think it's totally healthy to run that high and typically float high 30s to low 40s.
But that guy's whole hypothesis is that test converted to estrogen is bad and anything above a certain number will yield gyno. Which isn't true across the board. Estrogen is heart healthy, to an extent. Will help with muscle growth. I'm sure docd will have a more clinical answer.
master.on
New Member
Low Estro doesn't kill lean gains by itself
At most it's because low Estro people begin feeling ill thus training/eating/sleeping less.
tenpoundsleft
Member
Yeah, it's clearly NOT an absolute number, that's just something that comes from some tired medical playbook built on studies of the averages of average people.
I've had my E2 in the high 70s when my test was well over 1,500 - with no E2 symptoms at all.
Definitely curious how the ratio looks as you start to head into the thousands of TT.
@Docd187123
That guy is a fucking idiot. Te same guy who says test makes you fat lol. I don't pay attention much to the number but the symptoms.
tenpoundsleft
Member
You've converted me to that approach too.
