Does Anyone Use Maximus HRT ?

[pogue]

Well guys, glad I found this thread, let me share a little story that has made my day a bit unnerving.....[snip]
Today I get home and in my front door is a card from FDA Special Agent in criminal investigations Steve Grillo. No message, no call, just the card in my door. I call agent Grillo and leave him a message. After reading this forum I find Agt. Grillo is also associated with this [/snip]

Is my life over?

(I'm not a lawyer so I can't confirm this with 100% certainty.) But, the FDA is not a law enforcement (LE) agency. They don't have the legal authority to arrest people like the DEA and USPS postal inspectors can. If someone from the FDA is knocking at your door and leaving you calls it means they are investigating something and are looking for bigger fish to fry than you. More than likely one of the following scenarios happened:

A) A package got intercepted. This is fairly common and on domestic orders its easy to trace. Since LE isn't involved this means they aren't trying to arrest people, generally not end users. If LE had seized a package and determined there to be scheduled drugs that weren't prescribed then it would probably be more than a knock at the door and having a card left.

B) A compounding pharmacy is being investigated. Whoever compounds for Maximus could be being investigated by the FDA. They probably got ahold of the customer list and are trying to see what was sent and if it violated the law. It sounds like Maximus might have aroused the suspicion of the FDA for a number of reasons and now they're trying to figure out whats going on.

C) Maximus is being investigated. Since the FDA is involved they are going to be looking at how they are operating and trying to see if they are up to snuff with prescribing laws. Its well known that TRT/HRT clinics are under investigation a lot and kind be kind of sketchy. I'm sure as Millard knows, you'll see a lot on the news types of "fountain of youth" clinics run under certain types of anti-aging docs being investigated and shut down for what the FDA perceives as over prescribing of HGH, testosterone and similar. The people who operate it are shut down and given big fines, but customers don't get prosecuted. The customers are often left with prescriptions they can't fill and bills but no legal action.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say any of this with any authority. But just from prior experience, I would say its one of the three. Since an agent just wants to talk to you you're not under any obligation to do so and you can speak to a lawyer about it first. Obviously, that can cost some money but you'd be better off doing that now than down the road later if you're concerned. They're most likely just trying to figure out what was happening with Maximus' customer base than trying to arrest you or anything like that.

Keep a copy of the ACLU Bust Card in your wallet so you always know your rights. You don't have to agree to an interview, but if you do, remember you can terminate it at any time. If you didn't do anything criminal, its going to be easier to just speak with them and explain the situation He may want you to testify or try to subpoena you later though, if they decide to go to trial and prosecute.

If you're worried about it, give Rick Collins a call.

 

[Millard]

Keep a copy of the ACLU Bust Card in your wallet so you always know your rights. You don't have to agree to an interview, but if you do, remember you can terminate it at any time. If you didn't do anything criminal, its going to be easier to just speak with them and explain the situation He may want you to testify or try to subpoena you later though, if they decide to go to trial and prosecute.

If you're worried about it, give Rick Collins a call.

All very good advice!

 

[JOWS6]

Dammit Millard! Remove that huge pic of yourself! I was scrolling down and now everyone in my class thinks I'm looking at gay porn or something.

 

[Millard]

Dammit Millard! Remove that huge pic of yourself! I was scrolling down and now everyone in my class thinks I'm looking at gay porn or something.

I thought the subject matter of MESO may have made it NSFW to begin with. But I never thought I'd make it worse [)]

 

[newbie23]

Not everyone is against "these clinics". This is a much bigger issue than Maximus. My comments refer to TRT clinics in general and not any specific clinic.

I think telemedicine for TRT is the future and the sooner it becomes mainstream the better for all the men that could benefit from appropriate TRT.

I also think it would be great if anabolic steroids for bodybuilding purposes were legalized and we could readily obtain bodybuilding dosages of pharmaceutical AAS after talking to a "consultant".

That would be nice!

However, there is a regulatory framework in place that determines the legality of such enterprises.

I recognize that TRT clinics could operate within the existing legal framework.

But no matter how badly I wish it were true, I know that it is still illegal to prescribe bodybuilding dosages of steroids.

I do have a problem with companies/individuals who tell customers/clients/patients that this is legal when it is not.

It is dishonest. It is done at great legal risk to the operators of such clinics and at a lesser risk to clients who use this service.

Clients deserve to be fully aware of what they are getting into. Consumers in our community should be protected over the commercial interests of businesses trying to profit off this community.

Customer satisfaction doesn't reflect on the legality of a business.

My local steroid dealer provides high-quality steroids and ancillaries at reasonable prices. Not surprisingly, he is extremely popular among his clientele. He provides a much needed and valuable service for the bodybuilding community (and for TRT patients who choose to self-medicate).

However, he doesn't pretend that what he does is legal.

Millard you are one of the most level headed, intelligent guys on the board, its sad to say this is why i never stayed here at this board, i posted 1,000's of post's elsewhere.

I still come to the TRT forum, but I never login, I have 19 messages in my box right now. The reason I come to the TRT forum here is because Dr. Scally brought some very valuable expertise to the board, I can't begin to explain the amount of knowledge I've gained from reading his post's.

Now the reason I don't post, is because there are a bunch of hypocrites here, guys that want to spread the good word on how great TRT can be for someone that has lost his edge over the years, I mean I know 68 year old guys that would put half the people in the steroid section to shame, simply because he eats right and takes supplemental doses.

So hear we are, getting together to spread the word, on a great board and people like Victor want to hate on everyone, maybe he has nothing better to do with his time. Why does everyone want to find a way to stop us from getting the FDA approved medication we need, cheaply, and without hassle?

I went to a place the other day with a friend, its a pain management clinic. You walk in, the doctor runs around the office very fast, and does not let you say a word. He only accepts cash for the visit, you pay him in the office he sees you, he pulls a fat wad out of his pocket and gives you change. he asks no questions, he just reads your file that his secretary wrote the symptoms on, repeating them to you so you acknowledge that you wrote it. then he walks out, you wait for your script. thats all demanding a face to face does for us and the community, makes are insurance pay for the crackheads drugs so are premiums go up......................thats just a brilliant idea.

So why are all your panties in a bunch? Well we know victor is just bored, and we know HAN runs a clinic you go to, so of course he is going to sell the face to face. and give me a break with the dangerous dispensing of medication spiel, that is only gonna work on the newbies.

even after saying all that, the bottom-line is you guys have not proven anything, what needs to be the topic of conversation is, how is the doctor patient relationship established? if you think the only way to do that is to talk to a doc in person, well then you don't know what your talking about.....................

even everyone did a face to face the docs wouldn't be able to handle the workload, you get charged a shitload for seeing him, and he doesn't give your time cause he is so busy, sound like a doc we have all been to? then they make it so expensive, half of us wouldn't be able to afford it, and the other half won't even prescribe an AI to control estrogen give me my clinic that know what they are doing, you can save the rest for someone else who didn't take the time to educate themselves...........................


Save the Agenda comment's, I could care less cause i know I don't have one, I'm just looking in from the outside............

 

[newbie23]

(I'm not a lawyer so I can't confirm this with 100% certainty.) But, the FDA is not a law enforcement (LE) agency. They don't have the legal authority to arrest people like the DEA and USPS postal inspectors can. If someone from the FDA is knocking at your door and leaving you calls it means they are investigating something and are looking for bigger fish to fry than you. More than likely one of the following scenarios happened:

A) A package got intercepted. This is fairly common and on domestic orders its easy to trace. Since LE isn't involved this means they aren't trying to arrest people, generally not end users. If LE had seized a package and determined there to be scheduled drugs that weren't prescribed then it would probably be more than a knock at the door and having a card left.

B) A compounding pharmacy is being investigated. Whoever compounds for Maximus could be being investigated by the FDA. They probably got ahold of the customer list and are trying to see what was sent and if it violated the law. It sounds like Maximus might have aroused the suspicion of the FDA for a number of reasons and now they're trying to figure out whats going on.

C) Maximus is being investigated. Since the FDA is involved they are going to be looking at how they are operating and trying to see if they are up to snuff with prescribing laws. Its well known that TRT/HRT clinics are under investigation a lot and kind be kind of sketchy. I'm sure as Millard knows, you'll see a lot on the news types of "fountain of youth" clinics run under certain types of anti-aging docs being investigated and shut down for what the FDA perceives as over prescribing of HGH, testosterone and similar. The people who operate it are shut down and given big fines, but customers don't get prosecuted. The customers are often left with prescriptions they can't fill and bills but no legal action.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say any of this with any authority. But just from prior experience, I would say its one of the three. Since an agent just wants to talk to you you're not under any obligation to do so and you can speak to a lawyer about it first. Obviously, that can cost some money but you'd be better off doing that now than down the road later if you're concerned. They're most likely just trying to figure out what was happening with Maximus' customer base than trying to arrest you or anything like that.

Keep a copy of the ACLU Bust Card in your wallet so you always know your rights. You don't have to agree to an interview, but if you do, remember you can terminate it at any time. If you didn't do anything criminal, its going to be easier to just speak with them and explain the situation He may want you to testify or try to subpoena you later though, if they decide to go to trial and prosecute.

If you're worried about it, give Rick Collins a call.

and who has the proof Maximus is being investigated? i would like to handle that next? cause I know who is being investigated and its not them, as a matter of fact another tree may have fallen today....................

 

[Millard]

Why does everyone want to find a way to stop us from getting the FDA approved medication we need, cheaply, and without hassle?

My views on the matter are probably not representative of most people of the forum. I am against the war on steroids. I am against the war on drugs. I think drugs should be legalized and regulated. The government should stop spending money on criminalizing drugs. The government should focus on harm reduction.

I would like nothing more than to see bodybuilders have the freedom to legally obtain FDA-approved AAS and ancillary medications and easily obtain medical supervision if desired.

So why are all your panties in a bunch? Well we know victor is just bored, and we know HAN runs a clinic you go to, so of course he is going to sell the face to face. and give me a break with the dangerous dispensing of medication spiel, that is only gonna work on the newbies.

There are legitimate legal questions to be raised about an operation that liberally dispenses various steroids especially if they are prescribed for bodybuilding purposes rather than just therapeutic purposes.

We don't have to agree with the law. But we should be honest with ourselves and acknowledge the laws affecting such clinics.

Is Maximus one such clinic? I don't know. There have been several people who have suggested this may be the case. Are they all competitors or others with an agenda against TRT clinics?

what needs to be the topic of conversation is, how is the doctor patient relationship established? if you think the only way to do that is to talk to a doc in person, well then you don't know what your talking about.

There are legal definitions that are relevant to this discussion - "legitimate medical purpose", "valid presription", "doctor-patient relationship".

I directly addressed these issues in at least a couple of posts. I have no interest in building a case against Maximus, so I didn't refer to them specifically.

• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802809
  
• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802810
  
• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802811

and who has the proof Maximus is being investigated?

I haven't seen any. The appearance of a cover-up has raised all sorts of suspicions.

The post about FDA Special Agent Grillo was unexpected. For all I know, theturducken could have gone on the internet and looked up Grillo's email and phone number, photoshopped his business card, printed it out, taken a picture and emailed it to me. Or maybe he obtained the SA's business card because he ordered something from Musclebear. Or maybe he's telling the truth.

 

[j1n]

im so confused right now with whats going on. idk if i should be worried or not.... someone PM ME!

 

[QuattroA4]

Millard you are one of the most level headed, intelligent guys on the board, its sad to say this is why i never stayed here at this board, i posted 1,000's of post's elsewhere.

I still come to the TRT forum, but I never login, I have 19 messages in my box right now. The reason I come to the TRT forum here is because Dr. Scally brought some very valuable expertise to the board, I can't begin to explain the amount of knowledge I've gained from reading his post's.

Now the reason I don't post, is because there are a bunch of hypocrites here, guys that want to spread the good word on how great TRT can be for someone that has lost his edge over the years, I mean I know 68 year old guys that would put half the people in the steroid section to shame, simply because he eats right and takes supplemental doses.

So hear we are, getting together to spread the word, on a great board and people like Victor want to hate on everyone, maybe he has nothing better to do with his time. Why does everyone want to find a way to stop us from getting the FDA approved medication we need, cheaply, and without hassle?

I went to a place the other day with a friend, its a pain management clinic. You walk in, the doctor runs around the office very fast, and does not let you say a word. He only accepts cash for the visit, you pay him in the office he sees you, he pulls a fat wad out of his pocket and gives you change. he asks no questions, he just reads your file that his secretary wrote the symptoms on, repeating them to you so you acknowledge that you wrote it. then he walks out, you wait for your script. thats all demanding a face to face does for us and the community, makes are insurance pay for the crackheads drugs so are premiums go up......................thats just a brilliant idea.

So why are all your panties in a bunch? Well we know victor is just bored, and we know HAN runs a clinic you go to, so of course he is going to sell the face to face. and give me a break with the dangerous dispensing of medication spiel, that is only gonna work on the newbies.

even after saying all that, the bottom-line is you guys have not proven anything, what needs to be the topic of conversation is, how is the doctor patient relationship established? if you think the only way to do that is to talk to a doc in person, well then you don't know what your talking about.....................

even everyone did a face to face the docs wouldn't be able to handle the workload, you get charged a shitload for seeing him, and he doesn't give your time cause he is so busy, sound like a doc we have all been to? then they make it so expensive, half of us wouldn't be able to afford it, and the other half won't even prescribe an AI to control estrogen give me my clinic that know what they are doing, you can save the rest for someone else who didn't take the time to educate themselves...........................


Save the Agenda comment's, I could care less cause i know I don't have one, I'm just looking in from the outside............

GREAT POST! In fact, this is the most sensible post I have seen on this thread in a few days
And Millard, you are correct I should not have called Scally childish and immature....I take it back....Sorry Scally

 

[player]

im so confused right now with whats going on. idk if i should be worried or not.... someone PM ME!

........ just quit reading all this bullshit about max. there not gonna screw with there clients , at most they'll go outa buss. for a month or two[)]

 

[QuattroA4]

........ just quit reading all this bullshit about max. there not gonna screw with there clients , at most they'll go outa buss. for a month or two[)]

Maximus is very much in business....everything seems to be back smooth again...

 

[player]

........ just quit reading all this bullshit about max. there not gonna screw with there clients , at most they'll go outa buss. for a month or two[)]

if ya get busted , you'll be out by xmas:drooling:

 

[QuattroA4]

if ya get busted , you'll be out by xmas:drooling:

I'm Jewish [)]

 

[newbie23]

My views on the matter are probably not representative of most people of the forum. I am against the war on steroids. I am against the war on drugs. I think drugs should be legalized and regulated. The government should stop spending money on criminalizing drugs. The government should focus on harm reduction.

I would like nothing more than to see bodybuilders have the freedom to legally obtain FDA-approved AAS and ancillary medications and easily obtain medical supervision if desired.



There are legitimate legal questions to be raised about an operation that liberally dispenses various steroids especially if they are prescribed for bodybuilding purposes rather than just therapeutic purposes.

We don't have to agree with the law. But we should be honest with ourselves and acknowledge the laws affecting such clinics.

Is Maximus one such clinic? I don't know. There have been several people who have suggested this may be the case. Are they all competitors or others with an agenda against TRT clinics?



There are legal definitions that are relevant to this discussion - "legitimate medical purpose", "valid presription", "doctor-patient relationship".

I directly addressed these issues in at least a couple of posts. I have no interest in building a case against Maximus, so I didn't refer to them specifically.

• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802809
  
• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802810
  
• https://thinksteroids.com/community/posts/802811

I haven't seen any. The appearance of a cover-up has raised all sorts of suspicions.

The post about FDA Special Agent Grillo was unexpected. For all I know, theturducken could have gone on the internet and looked up Grillo's email and phone number, photoshopped his business card, printed it out, taken a picture and emailed it to me. Or maybe he obtained the SA's business card because he ordered something from Musclebear. Or maybe he's telling the truth.

I can't argue with your post's as usual, down to earth.

" I heard" some months ago that a certain TRT company went down, Ive also heard that when one gets indicted the DEA has to request the release of medical records, you have so many days, or they can look, or sign and send back saying don't look. This is for HIPPA compliancy.

Now imagine the patients with that company are on TRT and they quickly move to another company, so they can get their meds, or even another after that before they settle down. all the sudden he receives a letter, and hear goes the rumors..............

I heard that same company that went down months ago, did not require much documentation to become a patient, only a few questions and a driver license.

if you look at why these guys get arrested its always because the don't have any procedures in place, cause that would take too much time, they get greedy.

there are a few troubled places out there, from a TRT standpoint, Maximus is not one of them.

as you can see, one person assuming something, can turn into a rumor that hurts people and their lively hood. Not saying you did Millard I know you were just trying to get to the bottom of it.

I have no vested interest in Maximus, I do know them from another board, and I just wanted to see if I could help straighten out the rumors.

Some think companies stay quiet, because they are shady, I have learned it is in their best interest to be quiet about their practices, and its in the best interest of the patient as well. No one, not even the patients want to deal with anymore restrictions...................

its not like apple announces exactly how they do business, it just doesn't make any sense to do that.

Besides how many people that use a clinic are gonna go down with them if the clinic decides to make bad choices? They don't go after the patients, at least not your every day guy, at least from what I've seen.

If you get body building doses from a TRT place, then thats your own fault, if its one thing the boards told me, its to educate before you medicate.

 

[Millard]

as you can see, one person assuming something, can turn into a rumor that hurts people and their lively hood. Not saying you did Millard I know you were just trying to get to the bottom of it.

I've known the owner of Steroidology for a long time. He's a good businessman. And rule number one to monetize a forum is the requirement that the site is advertiser-friendly.

This doesn't necessarily mean censorship. It simply means a low tolerance for rumors, speculation and questions that may reflect poorly on an advertiser. This is generally considered good business.

Of course, the downside is that often valid concerns from honest members are eliminated along with unfounded speculation by corporate competitors.

As far as MESO is concerned, I want to give people the freedom to speak their mind and express their concerns. I don't want them to be afraid to speak out about advertisers or potential advertisers because they are afraid they will be banned or censored.

This hasn't always worked out well for MESO. I've lost accounts from TRT clinics and other potential advertisers because I wouldn't ban outspoken members.

I fully support the concept of telemedice/TRT. I believe it is the future. I'd love to have legal TRT clinics advertise on MESO. Certainly, they must be beyond reproach. But at the same time, I want to be careful and not restrict the speech of members who are simply seeking the truth.

It's a difficult balance.

Besides how many people that use a clinic are gonna go down with them if the clinic decides to make bad choices? They don't go after the patients, at least not your every day guy, at least from what I've seen.

If you get body building doses from a TRT place, then thats your own fault, if its one thing the boards told me, its to educate before you medicate.

We often discuss the drawback of living in a paternalistic society. You know, the fact that the government wants to protect us from the dangers of steroids and therefore criminalizes their use for bodybuilding purposes.

But one of the benefits of living in a paternalistic society is that consumers are not often faulted in situations where they purchase products from a company that purports to be operating legally.

Since the government's job is to protect consumers, consumers are generally treated as victims of illegally-operating clinics and/or compounding pharmacies and/or supplement companies that illegally sell unapproved new drugs as dietary supplements.

As a result, consumers are not often prosecuted even though (technically) it is possible.

 

[newbie23]

I agree, you have always tried to walk the tight rope and do the right thing by the little guys. Thanks for letting put my 2 cents.

 

[theturducken]

Update on my experience. Spoke to Grillo on the phone, the visit wasn't even pertaining to Maximus, it was with an oversees pharmacy. He informed me I wasn't in any trouble, they are just looking at various overseas websites. Nothing too crazy.

I'm not here to spread rumors or create stories for anyone's entertainment, just sharing what has happened to me in the past couple of days.

So Maximus seems fine. Doesn't matter b/c my Dr Rxed me the Cyp at a safe level now and my ins covers it. So all is well.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Why not Skye then?
Simple, let's them know who they are actually talking to. Legally its a face to face visit. Antiaging clinic should not take on any patients who not being seen by a Primary Dr which should be called and verified they exist.. If the person bounces from treatment for some unknown reason then they have a place to go incase of any medical emergency. This way they should have safe guards put in place. The clinic should also only administer proper medicinal testosterone, HCG, AI, and other non performance enhancing drugs. GH therapy thats getting into dark waters with different states laws. I think these things can be very successful ran if they are held with in some what of medical guidelines.

 

[newbie23]

I hear ya on the GH being touchy waters, but one thing I can't deny is it is what is missing from TRT, it compliments it in every way.

 

[Millard]

Update on my experience. Spoke to Grillo on the phone, the visit wasn't even pertaining to Maximus, it was with an oversees pharmacy. He informed me I wasn't in any trouble, they are just looking at various overseas websites.

Thank you for keeping us updated and setting the record straight.

I posted earlier that this could be a possibility since SA Grillo has been investigating international sources for years now.

Or maybe he obtained the SA's business card because he ordered something from Musclebear.

And this guy is a major player who has brought done multiple international sources. FDA Special Agent Jeff Novitzky gets all the headlines because he goes after celebrity athletes but SA Grillo actually goes after big-time dealers and disrupts the steroid trade.

An entirely separate issue from Maximus and TRT clinics is the "Americanization" of international steroid law. If anyone thinks that international sources are beyond the reach of U.S. law enforcement, you are mistaken.

SA Grillo's investigations are resulting in the arrest and extradition of international steroid sources in various countries around the world to face trial in U.S. courts and answer to U.S. steroid law.

Anabolic Steroids Across the Atlantic - The "Americanization" and Politicization of International Steroid Law

The internationalized, fascistic nature of current steroid law enforcement policy thus emerges. Hegemony is its stated goal, that U.S. policy must be tantamount to international policy: all nations must conform to the legal standard of the United States. We must all think alike... The “internationalization” of steroid law, however, is also troubling for its politicization and heavy-handed reliance on dishonest notions of morality, cheating, and “protecting our children,” rather than science...