Domestic legal Worries???

[Stormbringer]

I have had serious concerns, especially in lieu of the events in the news lately and all the attn AAS is getting from the MLB fiasco, about using Domestic sources. This could all be paranoia, but how can anyone help minimize the chance that a Domestic source or Domestic UGL does not keep shipping records, e mails, mtcn #s etc... etc... that could be later used by the FBI or DEA to track down resallers or even personal users later. Would this be enough to get a Search Warrent and show up at my house. Even just personal use items is enough to cause serious legal issues fighting a felony conviction.
Obviously, this is not as big a worry with certain countries overseas that do not work well with our government, so I do not worry about this in that regard as much, but I have even heard it happen with some of them. So what precautions are put in place for Domestic stuff and what do you all know? Probably a bunch of worry over nothing but would appreciate any thoughts

 

[Stormbringer]

One more note. I have read several posts about the Dea and certain LE agency being stupid. This scares the Hell out of me. I have seen some local cops that might qualify for this, but I have seen in my experience, that the Feds are anything but that. They are thorough and relentelss. usually do not miss a beat. I have no doubt in my mind that if they took down a lab or resaller within the US, if it is worth while, they will run down every single lead they turn up at the original bust. Now they usually go up the chain and not down, if you not what I mean, but with all the publicity this has recieved lately, they are probably running down every lead they get right now.

 

[HDH]

There are sources that take the precautions that you speak of. They are usually the ones that have been around for years that are trusted. In the thread with the bust in it the only thing that was mentioned was that they collected money and took orders from unsuspecting people. It didn't say anything about having info on all the clients or making arrests. The ones that made the orders after the lab went down well, thats another story. Don't get greedy, stick to personal use and not big purchases and you should be fine. There are some good remailers out there too and some domestics that will take money by WU out of this country. I will stick with domestic.

HDH

 

[Bigkarch]

well, to be honest its illegal and you will always be paranoid. but with so many domestic stuff going around and so many types of mail, chances are good if you get a good low key domestic supplier that you will be safe. I never use my personal address and I always use a fake name with WU. get a secure email address and dont give out personal info. even if your name is on a list, or get in the hands of LE, chances are its from a different state and that in of itself is not good enough for a search warrant. if a domestic supplier is good, they dont want personal lists of buyers and gear sales. that incriminates them. but there will always be a chance you coud get a CD.

 

[Baby Faced Assasin]

Lets not forget the redstar fiasco. He had everybody and there brothers e-mail address on his computer.

The thing to remember is even if your source gets taken down and even if they get all your real shipping info, as long as your not big time, your not worth goin after. period.

Now if your buying from your source on the net and reselling in your community.....

LE would look at your order history to determine if your just buying enough for yourself or if your reselling. I'll be the first to admit you can make a killing as a reseller becuase of the huge mark up people are used to paying but in the long run its not worth it. For me anyways.

 

[Stormbringer]

Thanks Baby Face and BigKarch. I appreciate the info.

 

[asapnutrition1]

The intelligent domestic sources have 10's of P.O. Boxes in various locations and never under his/her name.

Domestic sources should have various ways for customers to pay for products and should have at bare minimal a secure email address if not several of them. Their password should be very complex with numbers, letters and even symbols all included.

Domestic sources should have a "Department of Defense" rated disk writing/re-writing program to delete all files that could be link to their operation.

Many should have some basic knowledge of proxy servers and how to hide their IP addresses.

Those are just a few things along with other things that a domestic source should and can do to protect themselves and their customers.


There are many ways that domestic sources to insure that they customers and themselves are relatively safe. But anyone should be paranoid. It keeps you aware and on your toes.

 

[Stormbringer]

ASAP1, thanks. That makes me feel a little better.

 

[asapnutrition1]

No problem. But again I think anyone feeling paranoid is a good thing. I still feel that most authorities will not go after individuals unless you are big named individual or unless they feel going after individuals will get them a better convictions on the UGL.

 

[Stormbringer]

Asap, I tried to PM you a couple days ago.

 

[asapnutrition1]

just got it- thanks.

 

[zkt]

The first thing amyone who gets busted willl do is try for a deal by ratting on anyone and everyone that they might think might even have chance of doing them any good. The accuced has two cards to play- sources and customer lists . Do ya really think that a dealer is going to cut his throat in advance by not keeping track of who he deals with ? If hes that stupid hes gonna fuck up anyway. And yes, they do go after the little guys too sometimes. I know that from ecperience. I think I might stay safe and foriegn after all.

 

[novicebb]

To think that you have no issues with a foreign source then you are foolish. Just recently if you read the Steroidbot article invovled an foreign source in Ireland who customers mostly came from the US.

If you don't think that many foreign countries are not working with US agencies such as FDA, FBI and DEA then that is another foolish thought.

Like ASAP stated earlier their are no way to completely insulate yourself and he even stated that any one buying or selling should be paranoid.

But I would argue that a source is foolish if he does keep records that an investigator can use to solidify the government case. Imagine if a source has records that he was selling to an HS student in Texas, do you really think if he gives up his customer list for leverage that will get him a better deal? I doubt it truly.

Like ASAP said before the smart UGL will have many p.o. boxes and many other possible delievery locations.

Also a smart UGL will not have money sent to the same location as packages from china to make products.

Shoot I know for fact that some UGL operate under several different names and in different locations.

 

[Stormbringer]

Good info Novice, Thanks.

 

[asapnutrition1]

Well I will not mention all the techniques I am aware of and techniques of other UGL but there are many measures that UGL take to possibly insulate themselves and you have to just realize that anyone can be popped at anytime don't know who are watching you. Your best bet is to insulate yourself as best as possible to lessen any possible consequences.

Don't order in your name. Try to use codes instead of saying "Hey do you have some Testosterone Enanthate on hand".
Believe it or not consider having your products shipped via Fed Ex, UPS or better DHL. DHL to me is best as I feel that the company are less interested in what you are shipping and more happy to have your business.

I have heard many people say that USPS is better to have shipped but I think private companies are better for safety reasons.

 

[Stormbringer]

Bump, Interesting read in lieu of the recent events.

 

[LTSTEVO]

So what the general agreement is that ordering from overseas would be safer to do?
I undrstand there is still risk but personal use amount would be okay?
Is that the general consensous?

 

[asapnutrition1]

I would advised those that order domestically on a regular basis to consider a mail forwarding services. It acts as a buffer or a shield between your real address and your mail forwarding address. Mail forwarding services are like P.O. boxes but uses real address instead of P.O. and are more under the LE radar then nation well known P.O, addresses such as UPS or FedEx kinkos.

Also the mail forwarding address will also send packages and mail to your address as added cost. They will airmail it or send it through services such Fed Ex or UPS. That is something to consider. Also consider using email forwarding services as well. It can act as an extra protection and a buffer. Even if you have cyber-rights or hushmail. You could send emails to the email forwarding services and then it sends it to hushmail or cyber-rights. Great way for extra protection.

 

[asapnutrition1]

On another note, many "domestics" are revamping services to better protect themselves and protect you as customers. Many realize that P.O. Boxes and money in the mail adds security concerns so are re thinking how to operate. Give it time and things will be better. Unfortunately you may have to jump through more hoops but things will get better.

 

[jirounan]

I would advised those that order domestically on a regular basis to consider a mail forwarding services. It acts as a buffer or a shield between your real address and your mail forwarding address. Mail forwarding services are like P.O. boxes but uses real address instead of P.O. and are more under the LE radar then nation well known P.O, addresses such as UPS or FedEx kinkos.

Also the mail forwarding address will also send packages and mail to your address as added cost. They will airmail it or send it through services such Fed Ex or UPS. That is something to consider. Also consider using email forwarding services as well. It can act as an extra protection and a buffer. Even if you have cyber-rights or hushmail. You could send emails to the email forwarding services and then it sends it to hushmail or cyber-rights. Great way for extra protection.

How does a mail forwarding service work? Does the source send to the mail forwarding service and then the service forwards to you? If so, don't you still have risk in that the mail forwarding service has your address on file? Thanks.