E2 control with Primo on TRT

[goulash_ragu]

I see all points here, in the end it’s a personal decision as every reacts differently. Op is monitoring his labs which is a plus.

I don’t recall @goulash_ragu mentioning how long he planned to run this low dose primo with his TRT dose. Also, what ester are you running for your TRT, how many injections per week (the time of the draw), and how long after your pin was your lab draw?

Test c EOD. I did the labs on the day of injection, right before pinning. I was planning to run primo along TRT, so indefinitely.

Nothing wrong with the way you stated it… but the your second response does add more clarity. Just about everyone that answered reads like they assume he was either calling it TRT or an addition to TRT.
I agree with what you said though, less drugs the better and if lowering your test dose achieves the goal of lowering your e2, then why not?
There still lies the question of accuracy of the lab test, in particular E2 and testosterone.

My e2 labs was ultra sensitive, so it should be fairly accurate unless there was a mistake of sorts.

 

[RussianDoggo]

You can run primo, masteron or proviron with your trt if you adjust the dosages and dont extrapolate the dosages. They are not hardly to tolerate in baby small dosages.

Keep it simple. No more than 200mg per week of everything combined. Do cardio and watch out diet (cholesterol co spumption) and bloodwork if necessary.

 

[Type-IIx]

Versus AIs, that similarly increase CV risk - the decisionmaking essentially boils down to, as the most significant factor, whether you are willing to accept an increased risk of a significant atherosclerotic cardiovascular or thrombotic event that may cause death (since taking no additional drugs is a third option, one can obviate risk by staying the course) & potentially with routine bloodlettings if necessary (they may very well not be, for you) in order to derive the benefit of enhanced sports performance (within the rules of your organization) & reducing E2 (if symptoms are unbearable).

This final paragraph is written in a muddled and confusing fashion since I was rushing to get to the gym. I want to rewrite it as:

Versus AIs, that similarly increase cardiovascular & thrombotic risk, choosing to increase AAS dose using an additional 70 mg/w of metenolone - the decisionmaking essentially boils down to whether you are willing to accept routine bloodletting & resultant increased probability of skewed hematological factors such as iron transport status (a compounding of problems that tends to lead to a whack-a-mole set of imperfect solutions in response) if you are not resilient against these hematologic derangements (most are not).

There is a third option that has been proposed to reduce overall risk and reduce E2 (remember, elevations to bloodwork values like serum E2 are only clinically relevant if they cause unbearable symptoms [e.g., edema, gynecomastia, erectile dysfunction]): to actually reduce your testosterone dose. Clinical guidelines for TRT already call for dose adjustment, that your practitioner is clearly not abiding by (it's not illegal to do this; just bad medicine). This, then, requires that your sought performance enhancement be disregarded as a goal.

 

[Type-IIx]

@goulash_ragu no camp here that I've put myself in; I only seek to give you a framework to assess this objectively. I see judgments and other placing themselves in your shoes, applying their own risk tolerance and judgments about the merits of your goals.

I'm not averse to putting myself in a camp though. I'd already be on a sane (lower) TRT dose, and not using some fly-by-night drug dealin' doc I found on the internet. TRT is your base-line T presumably for the rest of your life - if it's as high as it is, you're shaving years off of your lifespan. Peter Bonds' article above is important reading for everyone here. For some increased muscle size & strength may be worth that tradeoff, just not for me.

 

[goulash_ragu]

Giving it a read. I hope not too many long words so I can understand.

Also, sounds like TRT nation which puts its patients on 200mg/week by default are actively shaving years off patients’ lives. That’s sad…

 

[crtx]

Is there a problem with that?

no direct problem you can do what you like.
the real problem is low estrogen either from taking primo or an ai as estrogen is neuro & cardio protective along with assist lipid profiles.

So when i hear "TRT with addons" Its not really TRT. That's all.

Try to find the dose were you dont need any estrogen management or the estrogen is manageable everyone has a set point.

 

[goulash_ragu]

no direct problem you can do what you like.
the real problem is low estrogen either from taking primo or an ai as estrogen is neuro & cardio protective along with assist lipid profiles.

So when i hear "TRT with addons" Its not really TRT. That's all.

Try to find the dose were you dont need any estrogen management or the estrogen is manageable everyone has a set point.

My only gripe with my current e2 was a bit of water weight and lack of libido (not a complete lack, just not as good as I’d prefer). After I took that 3mg of asin a week ago the water didn’t come back, and libido been better. So maybe it’s not as bad as I previously thought.

 

[Jin23]

My only gripe with my current e2 was a bit of water weight and lack of libido (not a complete lack, just not as good as I’d prefer). After I took that 3mg of asin a week ago the water didn’t come back, and libido been better. So maybe it’s not as bad as I previously thought.

There are things that you can feel and others that you can't. While feelz can be a somewhat usable heuristic principle for measuring the impact on brain health (anxiety being an approximate measurement of inflammation, ie stress on the brain) but can you feel venus thrombosis? Can you feal your heart growing, ...? Ime as type wrote, you need a better doc.

 

[goulash_ragu]

There are things that you can feel and others that you can't. While feelz can be a somewhat usable heuristic principle for measuring the impact on brain health (anxiety being an approximate measurement of inflammation, ie stress on the brain) but can you feel venus thrombosis? Can you feal your heart growing, ...? Ime as type wrote, you need a better doc.

I completely agree.

 

[Avies48]

It does.

To answer your question, I'm not a doc, just a well educated and experienced user.

I'm just going to echo my previous wordings: adding another androgen to trt is not healthy. It's not trt anymore, it's a cruise. Important to make that distinction. However, your e2 readings suggest that your are on cruise already. What does your other blood work say, total test and free test? You should have shared that in the OP and how experienced you are with aas as with your age and other info ...

You should take into account that there is much, much more to it then just the impact on lipids. Primo is a dht derivate anabolic steroid and is impacting everything, from your brain to your liver and kidneys ... Impacting things like neuroinflammation (anxiety and depression), it modulates the glucocorticoid system (impacting water homeostasis and also impacting behaviour), it inhibits certain enzymes, it's going to compete with other androgens systemically in your tissues and organs, consequently having a multitude of outcomes, etc. etc.

It's one thing being on primo for a short while, but it's a completely different thing being on it for years on end. The internet is filled with brosky's advising or advocating the use of extra androgens to modulate your trt, but don't be swayed brother, this are just layman, they don't know what they're talking about. Things are much more complicated then an average seemingly educated gym rat can imagine.

You want health, stick to trt levels, you shouldn't need an Ai. And if you do, use an Ai. We don't have a full picture of how primo lowers e2 anyway. There are a handful of anecdotes connecting primo to low libido (my experience also) with estrogen still in normal range, suggesting it doesn't lower estrogen equally in all tissues and it also might be competing with normal DHT at systemically important sites, changing normal physiological functions of varying systems ... Again, it's complicated.

75mg also wont lower your high estrogen to adequate levels.

So have u experienced or know others who have, had bad depression/anxiety while on primo? Or have u had any experiences that soothed depression/anxiety while using primo?

 

[Dmiran84]

Ive Tried proviron with trt cruise, gives test a kick, and helps control E conversion, no labs to prove just feels, so take it how you want to. But next time I'll get labs done, cuz my E does tend to climb a little high