Gents,
Asking this in hopes of a little more complex discussion of E2 and AI's, not the normal sweet spot and AI's are bad type discussion. More a discussion of ranges, ratios, goals, and what effect nandrolone might have on those goals.
Looking through posts, podcasts, bro responses elsewhere, and published studies, the general current consensus seems to point that higher E2 is far better than too low of level for muscle building, bone density, sexual, neuro and cardio protective properties, etc. At some point we reach a level of way too fucking much where we run into potential gyno issues, sexual sides, and could basically start becoming emotional basket case.
When you look to one NCBI published study it generally points to a male range of 10-82 pg/ml as a reference range without citation where that range comes from. LabCorp shows reference range for male E2 on their sensitive test as 7.6-42.6 pg/ml. Labcorp also shows a total testosterone reference range of 264-916 ng/dl, and an averaged free test range of 7-25 pg/ml (this is a rough estimate average over ages of the male).
So my first question is whether the reference range of E2 for men corresponds with the reference range of Testosterone--so it acts as ratio of test or free test. Reading elsewhere online it seems to be the current trend towards this belief at least by some medical folks in the TRT world. If that is the case, then we would expect as our test/free test increases, to then also target (shoot for) a higher E2 level. As we get into higher super-physiological levels it would seem there would come a point where E2 could get too high where an AI should be used with conservative dosage--correct?
If so, what level or ratio would equate to "too high?"
What E2 levels create legitimate concerns of breast tissue growth--gyno?
What E2 levels create the same issue with something like NPP/Deca are being used since there seems to be at least some discussion/evidence on a correlation between E2 levels and effect of prolactin/progesterone when running NPP/Deca/Tren--i.e. would you use AI before reaching the level you might otherwise due to the interaction with the nandrolones?
I always try to keep AI's to a minimum and run pre-mid-and post-blast bloods to see where my E2 is hanging out. I know on my higher Rx'd TRT dose that very little AI is ever required to stay in that upper reference range, and for most part have done well as shown by my bloods to have managed my E2 based upon the regular reference range, but may have suppressed it below an ideal level if trying to shoot for a level based upon a ration of total or free test. Getting ready to start a new run which will have NPP again for the first 8 weeks and in reading up on this issue further after my TRT doc was talking at our annual appointment about some of the emerging opinions on E2 goals as a ration of test and its protective properties.
Seems there is lot out there supporting the ration and protective properties--but nothing medically, and couldn't find in forums between brothers, as to what that upper reference range should be on blast, and what levels should be avoided or grow tits and if running NPP/Tren might start lactating or menstruating.
Asking this in hopes of a little more complex discussion of E2 and AI's, not the normal sweet spot and AI's are bad type discussion. More a discussion of ranges, ratios, goals, and what effect nandrolone might have on those goals.
Looking through posts, podcasts, bro responses elsewhere, and published studies, the general current consensus seems to point that higher E2 is far better than too low of level for muscle building, bone density, sexual, neuro and cardio protective properties, etc. At some point we reach a level of way too fucking much where we run into potential gyno issues, sexual sides, and could basically start becoming emotional basket case.
When you look to one NCBI published study it generally points to a male range of 10-82 pg/ml as a reference range without citation where that range comes from. LabCorp shows reference range for male E2 on their sensitive test as 7.6-42.6 pg/ml. Labcorp also shows a total testosterone reference range of 264-916 ng/dl, and an averaged free test range of 7-25 pg/ml (this is a rough estimate average over ages of the male).
So my first question is whether the reference range of E2 for men corresponds with the reference range of Testosterone--so it acts as ratio of test or free test. Reading elsewhere online it seems to be the current trend towards this belief at least by some medical folks in the TRT world. If that is the case, then we would expect as our test/free test increases, to then also target (shoot for) a higher E2 level. As we get into higher super-physiological levels it would seem there would come a point where E2 could get too high where an AI should be used with conservative dosage--correct?
If so, what level or ratio would equate to "too high?"
What E2 levels create legitimate concerns of breast tissue growth--gyno?
What E2 levels create the same issue with something like NPP/Deca are being used since there seems to be at least some discussion/evidence on a correlation between E2 levels and effect of prolactin/progesterone when running NPP/Deca/Tren--i.e. would you use AI before reaching the level you might otherwise due to the interaction with the nandrolones?
I always try to keep AI's to a minimum and run pre-mid-and post-blast bloods to see where my E2 is hanging out. I know on my higher Rx'd TRT dose that very little AI is ever required to stay in that upper reference range, and for most part have done well as shown by my bloods to have managed my E2 based upon the regular reference range, but may have suppressed it below an ideal level if trying to shoot for a level based upon a ration of total or free test. Getting ready to start a new run which will have NPP again for the first 8 weeks and in reading up on this issue further after my TRT doc was talking at our annual appointment about some of the emerging opinions on E2 goals as a ration of test and its protective properties.
Seems there is lot out there supporting the ration and protective properties--but nothing medically, and couldn't find in forums between brothers, as to what that upper reference range should be on blast, and what levels should be avoided or grow tits and if running NPP/Tren might start lactating or menstruating.
