For those of you who play the 200mg test game and then add tons of anabolics on top, which do you use? I can't tolerate masteron at any dose.

[jtmarlin]

Do you always need adex on such a low test dosage?

I'm on it all the time yes. If I don't I will be in the 50-60 e2 and I personally don't think it's healthy long term. I also feel better 30-40.

 

[y777]

My ratios are
200 test
150-200 primo , depending on how sensitive you’re to primo AI effects.

Plus either
A) 400-600 deca
B) 350-500 NPP
C) 500-700 tren (for some reason I get more mental sides on lower doses of tren )


Alternative is 200 test and primo. If u run HCG you can crank up primo high because HCG helps
Make e2 in ur testes , and this isnt blocked by primo

My examples

200 test
250 HCG ED
800+ primo

Or if no HCG

200 test
300 primo.

 

[jtmarlin]

On 200 test and 100 primo weekly + 300iu HCG e3.5D my E2 was far too low at 8. Now if I added 350-700 NPP per week I bet that could work. I may just try that.

Or I could just ditch the primo and run .25mg of adex M/w/f on daily test e injections of 30mg which is what I do now.

 

[undersc0re]

175 test cyp and 100 mast eth every 4th day, seems to hit the spot for this old man. Gonna switch out the mast for primo next and see how that does, pretty tame.

 

[egruberman]

Presently on about 1200 test / 600 primo and feeling pretty good.

Threw in a little EQ a while back, got my e2 pretty low, so I suspect that when that's finally out of my system my e2 will probably jump up some.

 

[Xplicit]

I am going in this direction myself. I just spent the last year with EQ as my "Anchor" and test at a steady 750mg. I reached 292. Labs were great in respect to HCT and RBC, but BP spiked and I am shifting EQ out and bringing in Masteron in its place, with low dose Primo. Keeping test at 750mg, Tren in and out at 150-300mg.

I think HGH + Insulin is the bigger piece of this puzzle than which compounds you choose, when trying to push into freaky size.

All that said, take note I said 750mg Test, not 150mg... Big lists 500mg test, not 150mg. Test doesnt need to be "High" but with experience I think most of us have found (or will find) we grow far better when it's not "Low".

Well, I have to update this, as I know threads like this will get searched and read in the future. After making this post and re-evaluating the gains I had from my last blast. I am going to try cutting test down to 225, "Anchoring" with Mast and EQ at equal doses, low dose tren and focusing on the HGH + Insulin as the primary growth drivers.

Hoping the lower test approach will alleviate BP issues (reducing EQ to assist) that I got once I entered the 280s/290s.

 

[Grey Spartan]

I am going to try cutting test down to 225, "Anchoring" with Mast and EQ at equal doses, low dose tren and focusing on the HGH + Insulin as the primary growth drivers.

Keep us posted brother. I do not use HGH or Insulin so I'm really interested to see how much of a difference you find it makes.

 

[Liter O' Test]

low test sucks, i don't feel full and youre going to end up relying on compounds that give mental or estrogen side effects

 

[laclark89]

Same guy usto recommended running 500 test for as long as physically possible.

 

[bighunanballs]

Currently running 450 test, 650 mast, 10iu/day HGH while I clean bulk to 235lbs sitting at 230 now up from 225

 

[jtmarlin]

Same guy usto recommended running 500 test for as long as physically possible.

I sometimes wonder what is wrong with this if you don't end up with hematocrit, BP, or terrible lipids. Probably one of the safer ways of doing things.

 

[jtmarlin]

low test sucks, i don't feel full and youre going to end up relying on compounds that give mental or estrogen side effects

I tried this twice with masteron and as mild of a compound it is on paper and for many could not handle even a low dose. The anxiety was thru the roof for some reason. Only steroid that does this to me so far.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Well, I have to update this, as I know threads like this will get searched and read in the future. After making this post and re-evaluating the gains I had from my last blast. I am going to try cutting test down to 225, "Anchoring" with Mast and EQ at equal doses, low dose tren and focusing on the HGH + Insulin as the primary growth drivers.

Hoping the lower test approach will alleviate BP issues (reducing EQ to assist) that I got once I entered the 280s/290s.

May work well for you. But I know after about 10 weeks of that and I’d have really low and dangerous E2 levels. Once the EQ has been fully saturated for a few weeks. So maybe even as early as week 8-9.

And that’s with no AI. It’s highly individual though. Good luck.

 

[Juicedhead]

Just run more test, and use primo or eq with no AI if you dont need it with those. Just do what works for you dont worry about what other guys do or say they do if you have a stack you like just keep running that.

 

[Jaxino]

Thing is no using Test as main anchor or growth is so wrong....

Test is a class 1 and 2 steroid, hits the receptors from inside and outside the cells (to say it simple). Stacking class 2 AAS is basically not the best since you don't get any synergy from them.
One example is stacking: Test Npp EQ/Primo like many do.

So when you run low test high anabolics you are loosing a good amount of growth just from the Test.

Using Primo/EQ to avoid using AIs is good, YES; but it depends how much gear you want to use, i would never use like 2g Test 2g Primo/EQ to avoid ais. I would use instead: 2g+ Test 1g Primo 2-300 TrenE and Adex/Aromasin, this way will get all the benefits of Tren even at low dose and keep pushing the Test if you really need more mg and more growth.

AIs are not the devil, too much or too few E2 is the problem.
I noticed I feel the best between 30-50pg/ml, if i hit 36pg/ml or 52pg/ml i don't care too much if i feel fine.

HGH is great
Insulin is nice
Test is best
Say whatever you want but those 3 will make you grow, and this rule works since more than 40 years so, it's not needed to reinvent the wheel.


Then let's say you are on Instagram and you want to show bloods to your followers and show them you are natty from your test levels?
OK then run:
100-200 TestE (to keep total test in natty range 800-1000 maybe)
boatload of tren
boatload of anadrol
(boatload of masteron*)
(boatload of winstrol*)
HGH

You will have even more followers, but this is another story, it's not bodybuilding. There are so many influencer that does that.

*when you want to look your best

 

[6tren]

He's a bad example lol he fucked his prep up. A better indicator is John Jewett.

For myself nandrolone is a nightmare. I'm unable to handle even low doses. The mental sides including anxiety and paranoia are off the charts. Generally feel like shit, lethargy, etc. masteron has no sides for me. I can run grams of it and nothing... I don't run "low testosterone" though. I can handle 500mg test fine then I'll add 500-2g's of Masteron. So far it's a recomping dream. I'm losing bf and adding muscle for months on end while eating right around maintenance maybe slightly at a deficit

yeah but how's your prostate?

 

[jtmarlin]

yeah but how's your prostate?

Isn't the major reason to use masteron instead of test bc masteron has far less DHT related side effects? That's literally the reason to use 200 test and a ton of Masteron. Bc you avoid the DHT and estrogen issues... the major problem with masteron seems to be as with all anabolics, lipids issues.

The whole reason this DHT drug derived renaissance has occured is due to the lack of DHT and estrogenic sides they are incapable of causing.

 

[Para_33]

I've tried to play this game of ToddleeMD twice now where I keep the test moderate and try to ramp up with masteron as he says (he calls it a neutral anabolic) but I cannot fooking take even a few mg of mast without being crippled by anxiety. I've tried it twice now and it destroys me even at low doses. No other drug does this for whatever reason. What is a good sub? EQ and especially primo both crash my E2... if I want to take 400 primo I need 600 test to stay in range... was thinking NPP but not sure how high is tolerable of a level on that or anadrol. Have used anavar and it's great. I can't even tell I'm on it from side effect perspective but it can't be run very long due to lipids. Perhaps it's best to just use more test like most guys do? Anyone run into this problem of what relatively neutral anabolic to stack on test that doesn't cause issues if it can't be masteron? As crazy as it sounds, I'm wondering I could tolerate 50-100mg of anadrol per day on top of 200mg of weekly test better than any other drug from a sides perspective. Anyone play test low and drop high for extended periods?

You can run exogenous estradiol cypionate, valerate or enanthate- set your e2 to where you like. Then everything becomes a neutral/non estrogen effecting
Anabolic -except for test, dbol, ment.

This is what I’ve been doing for a while now. Works great for me. Dht itself does nothing for me that I’m able to detect in any way at all, both subjectively and on blood work. I get nighttime ragers all night and have to pee in my shower even when I haven’t had dht in over a year.

I’ve pinned pure dht base, gone back to using test, used dht cream, test cream, test gel, and etc to restore dht after months without having any- “just to see” if I noticed anything. And I can’t tell one bit.

1 exception though;..DHT does destroy and obliterate gyno. I like to run my e2 high around 90-100pg/ml. And with no DHT I’m limited to this 90-100 range. But with dht present, I’ve gone as high as 150+ sustained for months with no noticeable effect of high e2. With no dht present I’m limited to 80-100.

I’ve done the inject estrogen base with essentially everything you can think of at this point too. Tren, eq, primo, nandorlone, masteron, winstrol, halo, superdrol, etc etc others…

I’ve even tried cycles where I was on just like 70mg test + 1500 eq. Normally this would have crushed me e2, but since I was sustaining my e2 with the injectable E, nothing touched it. And only 70mg of test per week worth of aromatization combined with 1500eq is essentially nothing. So I didn’t even worry about or pay any regard to the additional e2 it gave me.

With e2. You set your e2 with your dose of estradiol valerate, cyp, etc. and that’s it nothing changes it after that. For me 1mg eod equals 60-65pg/ml of e2 measured through ultrassentivie estradiol testing.

 

[Jaxino]

You can run exogenous estradiol cypionate, valerate or enanthate- set your e2 to where you like. Then everything becomes a neutral/non estrogen effecting
Anabolic -except for test, dbol, ment.

This is what I’ve been doing for a while now. Works great for me. Dht itself does nothing for me that I’m able to detect in any way at all, both subjectively and on blood work. I get nighttime ragers all night and have to pee in my shower even when I haven’t had dht in over a year.

I’ve pinned pure dht base, gone back to using test, used dht cream, test cream, test gel, and etc to restore dht after months without having any- “just to see” if I noticed anything. And I can’t tell one bit.

1 exception though;..DHT does destroy and obliterate gyno. I like to run my e2 high around 90-100pg/ml. And with no DHT I’m limited to this 90-100 range. But with dht present, I’ve gone as high as 150+ sustained for months with no noticeable effect of high e2. With no dht present I’m limited to 80-100.

I’ve done the inject estrogen base with essentially everything you can think of at this point too. Tren, eq, primo, nandorlone, masteron, winstrol, halo, superdrol, etc etc others…

I’ve even tried cycles where I was on just like 70mg test + 1500 eq. Normally this would have crushed me e2, but since I was sustaining my e2 with the injectable E, nothing touched it. And only 70mg of test per week worth of aromatization combined with 1500eq is essentially nothing. So I didn’t even worry about or pay any regard to the additional e2 it gave me.

With e2. You set your e2 with your dose of estradiol valerate, cyp, etc. and that’s it nothing changes it after that. For me 1mg eod equals 60-65pg/ml of e2 measured through ultrassentivie estradiol testing.

I really would like to see the gains of all that.

Why a man should stay on 90-100pg/ml?
Do you want to become a woman during her period?

 

[Liter O' Test]

You can run exogenous estradiol cypionate, valerate or enanthate- set your e2 to where you like. Then everything becomes a neutral/non estrogen effecting
Anabolic -except for test, dbol, ment.

people already have a hard enough time explaining steroids, now I have to explain to my girlfriend why im injecting pure estrogen