eating raw eggs

[TheOldFart]

Yes, Yes, and I'm sure that I could find just as many unsubstantiated articles that show that any amount of meat is bad for you. Just like I can find thousands of unsubstantiated articles on the web showing some unknown theory on both sides of any argument. In my opinion, the correct diet is one that has a balance of meats, a moderate amount of grains and few sugars. My opinion is also just as unsubstantiated and useless as yours is. There are various high fat diets, high protein diets and high complex carb diets. They all seem to have some sort of beneficial results, at least in the short term. Which is the correct one? I don't think that any of these radical diets are good in the long term.

That statement was in error as far as my opinion goes. It should have read:

In my opinion, the correct diet is one that has a balance of meats, a moderate amount of grains and few sugars, with vegetables making up the majority of the diet.

 

[cvictorg]

Yes, Yes, and I'm sure that I could find just as many unsubstantiated articles that show that any amount of meat is bad for you. Just like I can find thousands of unsubstantiated articles on the web showing some unknown theory on both sides of any argument. In my opinion, the correct diet is one that has a balance of meats, a moderate amount of grains and few sugars. My opinion is also just as unsubstantiated and useless as yours is. There are various high fat diets, high protein diets and high complex carb diets. They all seem to have some sort of beneficial results, at least in the short term. Which is the correct one? I don't think that any of these radical diets are good in the long term.

The use of the words "unsubstantiated articles" isn't quite fair

These studies for example

The western diet and lifestyle and diseases of civilization

Abstract: It is increasingly recognized that certain fundamental changes in diet and lifestyle that occurred after the Neolithic Revolution, and especially after the Industrial Revolution and the Modern Age, are too recent, on an evolutionary time scale, for the human genome to have completely adapted. This mismatch between our ancient physiology and the western diet and lifestyle underlies many so-called diseases of civilization, including coronary heart disease, obesity, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, epithelial cell cancers, autoimmune disease, and osteoporosis, which are rare or virtually absent in hunter–gatherers and other non-westernized populations. It is therefore proposed that the adoption of diet and lifestyle that mimic the beneficial characteristics of the pre-agricultural environment is an effective strategy to reduce the risk of chronic degenerative diseases.

Origins and evolution of the Western diet: health implications for the 21st century

ABSTRACT
There is growing awareness that the profound changes in the environment (eg, in diet and other lifestyle conditions) that began with the introduction of agriculture and animal husbandry ?10000 y ago occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust. In conjunction with this discordance between our ancient, genetically determined biology and the nutritional, cultural, and activity patterns of contemporary Western populations, many of the so-called diseases of civilization have emerged. In particular, food staples and food-processing procedures introduced during the Neolithic and Industrial Periods have fundamentally altered 7 crucial nutritional characteristics of ancestral hominin diets: 1) glycemic load, 2) fatty acid composition, 3) macronutrient composition, 4) micronutrient density, 5) acid-base balance, 6) sodium-potassium ratio, and 7) fiber content. The evolutionary collision of our ancient genome with the nutritional qualities of recently introduced foods may underlie many of the chronic diseases of Western civilization.

I also highly recommend this blog

Whole Health Source

The author i Stephan Guyenet. His background - "I received a B.S. in biochemistry from the University of Virginia in 2002, and a Ph.D. in neurobiology from the University of Washington in 2009. Professionally, I study the neurobiology of body fat regulation."

 

[TheOldFart]

Where is the substantiation? Where is the scientific data behind these articles? They are just stating opinions based on what the author decides is the history of diet. So what significance is there in stating that there is more obesity, more hypertension, more cancer or more diabetes than in ancient man? Who documented the medical history of ancient man? You have some medical files written on caves perhaps? I believe that the average life span of cave men was estimated to be about 26 years. How many 26 year olds have cancer today.

Sure there are problems with diet in western civilizations. The US population is FAT. It isn't so much because of what the average person eats, it's because of how many calories they stuff down their throats. Just look at the size of restaurant lunches and dinners today compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Look at the huge person stuffing down the endless pancakes at IHOP. That is the problem in this country.

Most civilizations 200 or 300 years ago or earlier were thinner and in better shape physically because they had to do more manual labor and didn't eat as much. They couldn't afford to eat that much. The rich back then with the private chefs often died early of heart disease.

I have nothing against eating beef, as long as it is combined with a balanced diet. What am I eating today. Breakfast was pasteurized egg whites from a carton with 2 slices of bacon. Then my wife and I took a brisk 4 mile walk and stopped for coffee and split a whole grain bagel. For lunch, I had a 1/4 pound free range grass fed beef burger on a whole wheat English muffin and shredded cabbage and carrots with a little honey mustard dressing. Had some Kashi cereal with strawberries for dessert. Then we played an hour of table tennis. Dinner tonight is a salad, tilapia and broccoli. I'm sure that does not meet your stuff down the raw meat and raw eggs requirement, but that is what I consider a healthy, balanced diet.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Where is the substantiation? Where is the scientific data behind these articles? They are just stating opinions based on what the author decides is the history of diet. So what significance is there in stating that there is more obesity, more hypertension, more cancer or more diabetes than in ancient man? Who documented the medical history of ancient man? You have some medical files written on caves perhaps? I believe that the average life span of cave men was estimated to be about 26 years. How many 26 year olds have cancer today.

Sure there are problems with diet in western civilizations. The US population is FAT. It isn't so much because of what the average person eats, it's because of how many calories they stuff down their throats. Just look at the size of restaurant lunches and dinners today compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Look at the huge person stuffing down the endless pancakes at IHOP. That is the problem in this country.

Most civilizations 200 or 300 years ago or earlier were thinner and in better shape physically because they had to do more manual labor and didn't eat as much. They couldn't afford to eat that much. The rich back then with the private chefs often died early of heart disease.

I have nothing against eating beef, as long as it is combined with a balanced diet. What am I eating today. Breakfast was pasteurized egg whites from a carton with 2 slices of bacon. Then my wife and I took a brisk 4 mile walk and stopped for coffee and split a whole grain bagel. For lunch, I had a 1/4 pound free range grass fed beef burger on a whole wheat English muffin and shredded cabbage and carrots with a little honey mustard dressing. Had some Kashi cereal with strawberries for dessert. Then we played an hour of table tennis. Dinner tonight is a salad, tilapia and broccoli. I'm sure that does not meet your stuff down the raw meat and raw eggs requirement, but that is what I consider a healthy, balanced diet.

Your day sounds like a cialis commercial or something. [)]

 

[BBC3]

Have you even seen anyone order a "rare" steak at outback. I looked over one day (back when outback was still decent[)]) and saw 2 steaks being delivered to a table. They looked like they were out frige, except somehot appearing slightly pinker. Perhaps thats what they look like. Blew my mind. I am guessing they made them sign a release...

As intelligent as you are, I really hope you're still not considering this.

 

[cvictorg]

Have you even seen anyone order a "rare" steak at outback. I looked over one day (back when outback was still decent[)]) and saw 2 steaks being delivered to a table. They looked like they were out frige, except somehot appearing slightly pinker. Perhaps thats what they look like. Blew my mind. I am guessing they made them sign a release...

Today I had 6 raw egg yolks, 10oz of grass fed new zealand lamb, a few cups of home made vegetable soup and 3 protein shakes (coconut milk, bananas, frozen wild blueberries, organic yogurt from grass fed cows, and a few scoops of whey protein powder) That's it - nothing else - also went to the gym and worked out for about 1 1/4 hrs - I FEEL GREAT - see no need to change

Next time we will be getting fresh killed pastured poultry and eggs direct from the farm here in NJ

 

[CubbieBlue]

Today I had 6 raw egg yolks, 10oz of grass fed new zealand lamb, a few cups of home made vegetable soup and 3 protein shakes (coconut milk, bananas, frozen wild blueberries, organic yogurt from grass fed cows, and a few scoops of whey protein powder) That's it - nothing else - also went to the gym and worked out for about 1 1/4 hrs - I FEEL GREAT - see no need to change

Next time we will be getting fresh killed pastured poultry and eggs direct from the farm here in NJ

Shit.

I had a banana, 5 beers, two brats, then a rueben, and 2 more beers, then a glass of whiskey. And I think I'm going to eat a piece of pizza now.

Need to get back on the wagon.

 

[cvictorg]

Shit.

I had a banana, 5 beers, two brats, then a rueben, and 2 more beers, then a glass of whiskey. And I think I'm going to eat a piece of pizza now.

Need to get back on the wagon.

Tomorrow I just substitute 10-12oz of wild caught alaska salmon for the meat and we're good to go - add 30 minutes of cardio to the weights at the gym - otherwise everything stays the same

 

[biceps72]

Shit.

I had a banana, 5 beers, two brats, then a rueben, and 2 more beers, then a glass of whiskey. And I think I'm going to eat a piece of pizza now.

Need to get back on the wagon.

thats my man [)]

I do something like this every saturday and DONT WORK OUT THAT DAY EITHER!

 

[Structure]

Where is the substantiation? Where is the scientific data behind these articles? They are just stating opinions based on what the author decides is the history of diet. So what significance is there in stating that there is more obesity, more hypertension, more cancer or more diabetes than in ancient man? Who documented the medical history of ancient man? You have some medical files written on caves perhaps? I believe that the average life span of cave men was estimated to be about 26 years. How many 26 year olds have cancer today.

Sure there are problems with diet in western civilizations. The US population is FAT. It isn't so much because of what the average person eats, it's because of how many calories they stuff down their throats. Just look at the size of restaurant lunches and dinners today compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Look at the huge person stuffing down the endless pancakes at IHOP. That is the problem in this country.

Most civilizations 200 or 300 years ago or earlier were thinner and in better shape physically because they had to do more manual labor and didn't eat as much. They couldn't afford to eat that much. The rich back then with the private chefs often died early of heart disease.

I have nothing against eating beef, as long as it is combined with a balanced diet. What am I eating today. Breakfast was pasteurized egg whites from a carton with 2 slices of bacon. Then my wife and I took a brisk 4 mile walk and stopped for coffee and split a whole grain bagel. For lunch, I had a 1/4 pound free range grass fed beef burger on a whole wheat English muffin and shredded cabbage and carrots with a little honey mustard dressing. Had some Kashi cereal with strawberries for dessert. Then we played an hour of table tennis. Dinner tonight is a salad, tilapia and broccoli. I'm sure that does not meet your stuff down the raw meat and raw eggs requirement, but that is what I consider a healthy, balanced diet.

This is the most reasonable argument I've seen offered on this thread. The truth is that people are unhealthy because they are too fat, and they don't exercise enough.

IMO, exercise is more important than exactly what the percentages of carb / fat / protein are. If you are getting enough exercise, and you don't over eat, you'll probably never get type II diabetes or heart disease unless you've got really bad genetics, regardless of whether you follow a low fat diet, a low carb diet, or whatever other fad pops up. If you don't get enough exercise, then it becomes much more important to watch where your calories come from (I'd go as far as saying that anyone that doesn't get a decent amount of daily exercise should be on a low-carb diet --- if you're not exercising, why do you need the glycogen stores anyway?)

 

[Structure]

My diet is neither low carb nor low fat; about 1/3rd of my calories come from carbohydrate. I just try to eat 8 small meals every day (i.e. every two hours), and keep the total carbs per meal at around 40g. Except for my post-workout meal, I try to stay reasonably low glycemic (but I'm not overly concerned about it because my portions are small and I avoid all sugar). Here's what today looked like:

• This organic veggie bowl, protein shake (23g protein: casein and whey based)
• low sugar granola (4g sugar / serving) with LF milk, another protein shake.
• (pre-workout meal) home made amino acid mixture in water, whole grain cereal bar.
• (post-workout meal) This protein shake, and 100 carbs worth of white bread.
• 1 cup nonfat plain yogurt with frozen cherries, 1/4 lb chicken breast with olive oil
• mahi mahi with fresh pico de gallo, hummus and whole wheat pita
• noodles and 1/4 lb chicken with olive oil
• low sugar granola with LF milk, 1 cup LF cottage cheese

It's a lot of calories (usually 3500 to 4000 per day), but my weight has been stable for years now (between 180 and 185 on any given day). I'm 6'2".

 

[TheOldFart]

Structure, your diet and weight for your height sounds a lot like mine. Just eat a balanced diet, but watch the sugars and simple carbs. Don't need to eliminate them, just keep them at a minimum.

I believe that it has been shown that a physically fit person who exercises, but is a bit overweight (not obese), is more healthy than one who is at a perfect weight but never exercises. Exercise is key, but that combined with a proper weight and diet is as perfect as possible.

 

[OhNoYo]

This is the most reasonable argument I've seen offered on this thread. The truth is that people are unhealthy because they are too fat, and they don't exercise enough.

IMO, exercise is more important than exactly what the percentages of carb / fat / protein are. If you are getting enough exercise, and you don't over eat, you'll probably never get type II diabetes or heart disease unless you've got really bad genetics, regardless of whether you follow a low fat diet, a low carb diet, or whatever other fad pops up. If you don't get enough exercise, then it becomes much more important to watch where your calories come from (I'd go as far as saying that anyone that doesn't get a decent amount of daily exercise should be on a low-carb diet --- if you're not exercising, why do you need the glycogen stores anyway?)

Atherosclerosis/atheroma is actually an inflammatory disorder, so quitting smoking helps ppl prevent CVD disease even further.

Also, it does matter what kind of calories they are getting in, because even if ppl are keeping calories in and calories out the same but eating high sugar (especially fructose) and high fat (especially trans) foods while having a very imbalanced omega6/omega3 ratio, they are far more likely to develop atherosclerosis/atheroma, NAFLD, metabolic syndrome, T2DM, CVD, etc. when compared to someone that eats a healthier more, balanced diet. Some like to throw high saturated fats onto this list, too.

However, yes ppl that get enough exercise, are a healthy weight, and keep calories in/calories out consistent but eat like shit are still light years ahead of others health wise that eat like shit, are overweight/obese, and don't exercise.

 

[cvictorg]

Atherosclerosis/atheroma is actually an inflammatory disorder, so quitting smoking helps ppl prevent CVD disease even further.

Also, it does matter what kind of calories they are getting in, because even if ppl are keeping calories in and calories out the same but eating high sugar (especially fructose) and high fat (especially trans) foods while having a very imbalanced omega6/omega3 ratio, they are far more likely to develop atherosclerosis/atheroma, NAFLD, metabolic syndrome, T2DM, CVD, etc. when compared to someone that eats a healthier more, balanced diet. Some like to throw high saturated fats onto this list, too.

However, yes ppl that get enough exercise, are a healthy weight, and keep calories in/calories out consistent but eat like shit are still light years ahead of others health wise that eat like shit, are overweight/obese, and don't exercise.

That is the key

 

[mqsymth]

This is the most reasonable argument I've seen offered on this thread. The truth is that people are unhealthy because they are too fat, and they don't exercise enough.

IMO, exercise is more important than exactly what the percentages of carb / fat / protein are. If you are getting enough exercise, and you don't over eat, you'll probably never get type II diabetes or heart disease unless you've got really bad genetics, regardless of whether you follow a low fat diet, a low carb diet, or whatever other fad pops up. If you don't get enough exercise, then it becomes much more important to watch where your calories come from (I'd go as far as saying that anyone that doesn't get a decent amount of daily exercise should be on a low-carb diet --- if you're not exercising, why do you need the glycogen stores anyway?)

Perhaps Gary Taubes' book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" with 64 pages of medical references to back up his assertions on bad carbs are no match for yours nor OldFart anecdotal quips. In addition The immortality Edge by Fossell presents 8 pages of medical research to back up his claims of telomeres and Paleo diet. Lastly The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf and The Paleo Diet fro Athletes by Loren Cordain each provide over 20 pages of medical references to back up their claims. Read and learn or die in pain.

 

[cvictorg]

Perhaps Gary Taubes' book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" with 64 pages of medical references to back up his assertions on bad carbs are no match for yours nor OldFart anecdotal quips. In addition The immortality Edge by Fossell presents 8 pages of medical research to back up his claims of telomeres and Paleo diet. Lastly The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf and The Paleo Diet fro Athletes by Loren Cordain each provide over 20 pages of medical references to back up their claims. Read and learn or die in pain.

Also this blog

Whole Health Source

 

[TheOldFart]

Perhaps Gary Taubes' book "Good Calories, Bad Calories" with 64 pages of medical references to back up his assertions on bad carbs are no match for yours nor OldFart anecdotal quips. In addition The immortality Edge by Fossell presents 8 pages of medical research to back up his claims of telomeres and Paleo diet. Lastly The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf and The Paleo Diet fro Athletes by Loren Cordain each provide over 20 pages of medical references to back up their claims. Read and learn or die in pain.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias"]Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Fred_Barnard07.jpg" class="image"><img alt="A drawing of a man sitting on a stool at a writing desk" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Fred_Barnard07.jpg/220px-Fred_Barnard07.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/7/73/Fred_Barnard07.jpg/220px-Fred_Barnard07.jpg[/ame]

You and cvictorg have a severely bad case of this.

 

[Structure]

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You and cvictorg have a severely bad case of this.

LOL. I can't help but agree. I had a feeling when I saw the low-carb fanatic type comments popping up on this forum that little common ground was to be found. I liken it to having a discussion with a religious fundamentalist: there is no real discussion possible with others when ones beliefs are infallible, regardless of the evidence presented.

Once upon a time, I drank the Kool-Aid. Much like Mqsymth, I too would tell people how I would be attending their funerals. Eventually my low-carb fanaticism won me a large stack of medical bills (hypercortisolism), and a whole lot of feel-like-shit. You can keep your Kool-Aid.

Not that I'm against all things Atkins; I've since found a more middle-of-the-road stance on this subject. I have a feeling that I won't be the only one. Give it some time.

 

[cvictorg]

LOL. I can't help but agree. I had a feeling when I saw the low-carb fanatic type comments popping up on this forum that little common ground was to be found. I liken it to having a discussion with a religious fundamentalist: there is no real discussion possible with others when ones beliefs are infallible, regardless of the evidence presented.

Once upon a time, I drank the Kool-Aid. Much like Mqsymth, I too would tell people how I would be attending their funerals. Eventually my low-carb fanaticism won me a large stack of medical bills (hypercortisolism), and a whole lot of feel-like-shit. You can keep your Kool-Aid.

Not that I'm against all things Atkins; I've since found a more middle-of-the-road stance on this subject. I have a feeling that I won't be the only one. Give it some time.

http://maisonneuve.org/pressroom/article/2010/nov/15/the-diseases-affluence/

Diseases of Affluence

Among North American adults, 40 percent of us maintain normal glucose levels only by secreting larger than normal quantities of insulin from our pancreas. So we wander in and out of our family doctors’ offices and, if some blood work is done, we are reassured that our glucose levels are normal, that we don’t have diabetes. Mostly, they are and mostly, we don’t. But our bodies are not normal. The Afghans’ bodies are normal. We are so commonly ill we take it to be normal.

Here is our normal: 40 percent of North American adults have metabolic syndrome. The syndrome is caused by being fat, even at levels North Americans would not recognize as abnormal. Obesity prompts the receptors that insulin acts upon to become numb to its effects. As we grow fatter, and insulin resistance proceeds, higher and higher levels of insulin are necessary to get the sugar out of the blood. Eventually, overt diabetes may supervene, as it has for 8 percent of North American adults, a tenfold increase since the turn of the last century. But even prior to the development of diabetes, metabolic syndrome insidiously eats away at the bodies of those it affects.

Metabolic syndrome’s elevated insulin level is why we order a second Whopper; getting fatter, cruelly, stimulates our appetite. It is also why high blood pressure is more common among Westerners, too, and why our cholesterol panels are more alarming. Ultimately and especially, it is why heart attacks are almost unknown among traditional peoples like the Pashtun, while half of us will spend our last minutes with the impression that a large kitchen appliance is sitting on our chests.

Westerners are made ill by diseases the Afghans avoid—even among the very elderly, traditional peoples do not suffer cardiovascular disease—while the Afghans perish from diseases we are too rich to tolerate.

 

[mqsymth]

LOL. I can't help but agree. I had a feeling when I saw the low-carb fanatic type comments popping up on this forum that little common ground was to be found. I liken it to having a discussion with a religious fundamentalist: there is no real discussion possible with others when ones beliefs are infallible, regardless of the evidence presented.

Once upon a time, I drank the Kool-Aid. Much like Mqsymth, I too would tell people how I would be attending their funerals. Eventually my low-carb fanaticism won me a large stack of medical bills (hypercortisolism), and a whole lot of feel-like-shit. You can keep your Kool-Aid.

Not that I'm against all things Atkins; I've since found a more middle-of-the-road stance on this subject. I have a feeling that I won't be the only one. Give it some time.

Both you and OldFart seem to have blinders on. I'm not talking about low carbs, I'm talking about good carbs and bad carbs. In order to break away from your anecdotal "well I think I feel good so this must be the way and I don't like to read" attitude, I suggest you read rather than pontificate. As an example the Hunter Gatherer diet consists of Protein(19-35%), Carbs(22-40%), Fat(28-47%). Hardly "low carb"