Yeah, I have thought of that. It's possible, and I know a lot of floxxed males have had sexual dysfunction, but it seems that is usually related to low testosterone...which I am obviously on top of. Also, most of my issues have been slowly resolving (unless I aggravate them) and nothing else new has popped up in quite some time. I'm a few months short of two years out.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
ED Issues Continue
- Thread starter CubbieBlue
- Start date
Yeah, I have thought of that. It's possible, and I know a lot of floxxed males have had sexual dysfunction, but it seems that is usually related to low testosterone...which I am obviously on top of. Also, most of my issues have been slowly resolving (unless I aggravate them) and nothing else new has popped up in quite some time. I'm a few months short of two years out.
It is wierd but consider yourself fortunate. I think everyone's body reacts differently and it's clear your body doesnt aromatize/covert to E2 as rapidly as someone else. This could indicate that your natural setpoint for testosterone is higher than most. Which could indicate that you would do better at a higher dose.
But that's TOTALLY SPECULATION.
The very first time I used HCG (1,500 IUs/week) it was a month before it started to rise.
Pericles
New Member
Thread is a bit old, but I would like to chime in: HCG will jack your e2.
A few months ago, I discussed my strategy for getting my wife to lose some weight was, A, to lose some myself (lost 16 lbs....did my first real cycle in 8 years, so I also built some muscle) and B, stop initiating sex.
Towards that end I did a HUGE amount of EQ and deca (more than 1kmg a week for each, for 2.5 weeks). Sure enough, it killed my sex drive. I went off my last cycle a few weeks ago, and ran 2k IUs of HCG eod. I had a small amount bof Letro, but it ran out before the HCG did. I figured "well, lets see if I am OK just taking some Nolva.
Boy was I wrong. I have been having erectile issues for a few weeks. I purchased some Letro from Meso (good stuff) and am on my third day.
Well, the wife has not lost much weight[
)] but my ED seems to be gone, as I had a satisfactory date w/ Rosy palm and her sisters.
Of course having too little estrogen is also a problem. That is why I don't rely on labs (w/ I get only every 6 months anyways) but purely on Mr Johnson. I just remedied a situation were e2 was, I am sure, too high. Now If I started taking lots of Letro, it would probably become too low, which also causes ed. It is always a fine line, but the proof is in the penis. A small amount of Letro eod works best for me.
To you young guys, you have my sympathy. Man, when I was 30, (when I started using gear) I could bang all night. I am 50 now, on trt, and the stars have to line up correctly. It must be especially tough on the young guys who have these problems.
BTW, Cubbie: You are taking very, very tiny amounts of Test. I need 200 mg a week for good results. You can take that much and be healthy for the next 60 years. Gear, if used responsibly is not as dangerous as all the hype make it out to be. You just have to follow a few rules, 1: Don't use before 25 as the brain and endocrine system are still developing, and 2: Take as much time off as on. I am referring to full blow cycles. Say you run 350 Mast, 350 test, and 250 var a week. You are on that for 6 weeks. You then drop the var and mast, I also like to drop the test back to 200, and then HCG (unless you were using it on cycle) followed by a full pct (Clomid/Nolva). The pct can count as time off. Discipline yourself to take 5 more weeks off, and you will have a healthy and still performance enhancing lifestyle..
A few months ago, I discussed my strategy for getting my wife to lose some weight was, A, to lose some myself (lost 16 lbs....did my first real cycle in 8 years, so I also built some muscle) and B, stop initiating sex.
Towards that end I did a HUGE amount of EQ and deca (more than 1kmg a week for each, for 2.5 weeks). Sure enough, it killed my sex drive. I went off my last cycle a few weeks ago, and ran 2k IUs of HCG eod. I had a small amount bof Letro, but it ran out before the HCG did. I figured "well, lets see if I am OK just taking some Nolva.
Boy was I wrong. I have been having erectile issues for a few weeks. I purchased some Letro from Meso (good stuff) and am on my third day.
Well, the wife has not lost much weight[
)] but my ED seems to be gone, as I had a satisfactory date w/ Rosy palm and her sisters.Of course having too little estrogen is also a problem. That is why I don't rely on labs (w/ I get only every 6 months anyways) but purely on Mr Johnson. I just remedied a situation were e2 was, I am sure, too high. Now If I started taking lots of Letro, it would probably become too low, which also causes ed. It is always a fine line, but the proof is in the penis. A small amount of Letro eod works best for me.
To you young guys, you have my sympathy. Man, when I was 30, (when I started using gear) I could bang all night. I am 50 now, on trt, and the stars have to line up correctly. It must be especially tough on the young guys who have these problems.
BTW, Cubbie: You are taking very, very tiny amounts of Test. I need 200 mg a week for good results. You can take that much and be healthy for the next 60 years. Gear, if used responsibly is not as dangerous as all the hype make it out to be. You just have to follow a few rules, 1: Don't use before 25 as the brain and endocrine system are still developing, and 2: Take as much time off as on. I am referring to full blow cycles. Say you run 350 Mast, 350 test, and 250 var a week. You are on that for 6 weeks. You then drop the var and mast, I also like to drop the test back to 200, and then HCG (unless you were using it on cycle) followed by a full pct (Clomid/Nolva). The pct can count as time off. Discipline yourself to take 5 more weeks off, and you will have a healthy and still performance enhancing lifestyle..
foreveryoung
New Member
so you are another Letrozole success story 
I know it works wonders for me, and I don't rely on labs either, I am very in tune with my system and can tell when e2 is creeping up, and letrozole works very very well for me
I know it works wonders for me, and I don't rely on labs either, I am very in tune with my system and can tell when e2 is creeping up, and letrozole works very very well for me
For anyone on TRT, E2 is always creeping up.
Pericles
New Member
Yes, I think I will keep Letro @ a small amount e3d.
Well, the high dosage hcg protocol that Khera prescribed to me had a short lived success. Eventually my libido flatlined again as well the unrelenting ED set in...I am assuming mediated by high E2. Also for some reason the higher hcg dosages seemed to have diminishing returns.
I am back on 24 mg T eod with a shot of 250 iu interspersed here or there. Morning wood is strong. Libido is either ON or OFF. Most of the time it is just OFF. Erections are tough to come by.
I'm strongly considering running a tapering low dosage hcg only protocol for a few more weeks and then just dropping it completely and see what happens a la Seekonk's experience (mostly documented on the ATM forum: http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?20621-Coming-off-TRT-experience/page4)
I have an appointment with Khera to do a full workup (read: expensive) to determine if there are any physical causes of the ED. Here's why I am considering cancelling this part: I can get morning wood. I can get strong erections. Even sometimes without cialis/viagra. But sometimes I get NO response. I really don't want to pay out of pocket for all of these tests if it's not going to tell me anything.
Some other thoughts: when I first tried my restart with clomid around April. I had a good libido and good erections through most of the restart. I ended up with ED and a TT of 232 so I went back on. Who knows what would have happened had i just waited it out a bit longer.
I guess I want to know - I've got all of the TRT tools at my disposal - is there anything else I can try to dial myself in to improve libido and erections before I just say fuck it and ditch the stuff?
I am back on 24 mg T eod with a shot of 250 iu interspersed here or there. Morning wood is strong. Libido is either ON or OFF. Most of the time it is just OFF. Erections are tough to come by.
I'm strongly considering running a tapering low dosage hcg only protocol for a few more weeks and then just dropping it completely and see what happens a la Seekonk's experience (mostly documented on the ATM forum: http://www.allthingsmale.com/forum/showthread.php?20621-Coming-off-TRT-experience/page4)
I have an appointment with Khera to do a full workup (read: expensive) to determine if there are any physical causes of the ED. Here's why I am considering cancelling this part: I can get morning wood. I can get strong erections. Even sometimes without cialis/viagra. But sometimes I get NO response. I really don't want to pay out of pocket for all of these tests if it's not going to tell me anything.
Some other thoughts: when I first tried my restart with clomid around April. I had a good libido and good erections through most of the restart. I ended up with ED and a TT of 232 so I went back on. Who knows what would have happened had i just waited it out a bit longer.
I guess I want to know - I've got all of the TRT tools at my disposal - is there anything else I can try to dial myself in to improve libido and erections before I just say fuck it and ditch the stuff?
Couple questions:
1. Are you still on the wellbutrin? I find that helps with my sexual function by "shutting off my mind". It's not a direct libido boost but it does help.
2. Have you tried an "Ai" ? I am thinking of trying one as I am starting to suspect that yes E2 might be an issue with injections. I dont think it's needed with gels but i think it might be valuable with injections. Altho at the low dose you are doing i dont know. I do my inject in one 80mg inject.
I honestly dont know man. Im not totally dialed in yet and it's discouraging to see someone like you who had NO problems for over a year start to come across issues. It's like what happened with me with the transdermals. Perhaps a break from TRT will "resensitize" you to the benefits. I don't know.
I have considered coming off myself but the thought of having low T for months with no libido makes me discouraged. Right now libido is hit and miss but it's sometimes there. So I can sometimes use it. When I came off TRT i had no libido for months. 7 months to be exact even on wellbutrin. I think my T levels are below normal so it's like my libido has been shut off without TRT now
I wish you luck and pls keep us posted.
Oh I totally forgot something you could try.
Why not try a little bit of gel to boost your DHT? That might help.
I have tried daily cialis and have thrown in some viagra on occasion - and it helps with the erection quality a bit (still not fool proof). ALso doesn't do anything for libido. PM me for where to send those checks.
Yeah, playing around with the dosage.
I have played around with some a bit. I can almost 100% guarantee an erection by using an AI + cialis + some alpha blocker (flomax)
I basically did take a break though - I was on clomid or off everything from march through may.
My last lab reading showed DHT at:
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 403.0 106.0 - 719.0 pg/mL
I could try boosting it further, I guess.
Hmm.
My only advice would be to stay on the wellbutrin while keeping your injection protocol consistent. I dont know if you have experienced the full benefits of the wellbutrin.
Yeah it's a total shot in the dark. Like throwing a dart at a dartboard and hoping it hits.
I know that Testim + Wellbutrin gave me the most ridiculous libido out of any combination. So if you are open minded to slapping some gel on your torso every morning that's always a possibility for you.
Being the same age as cubbie n Tyler I can relate. Trt makes me feel better in some ways, yet hasn't ever restored my libido/erection capacity to normal. For me my gut instinct is thinking its thyroid related. I have nodules and when on trt I feel a weird tightness in my throat; although even off trt this comes n goes tho is more pronounced whilst on. I notice on days when I am feeling some sexuality I feel warm and generally hyped in a way. And it's better when it happens whilst on testosterone them when off. I think thyroid plays a more key role on libido/and especially erections than anyone realizes and I think bloodwork is flat out useless in this regard. Sorry for hijacking but this stuff hits close to home.it trt isn't working, I'd think thyroid is the place to look. Just my 2 cents.
Hmm ... could you describe the tightness in your throat? I feel a similar sensation but i wouldnt call it tightness i would call it like a bone on bone sensation in my throat.
You might be onto something with thyroid. There are some people who believe transdermals stop absorbing due to thyroid issues and that TRT decreases thyroid functionality. In my case it could be true. Levothyroxin isn't exactly a walk in the park tho. I felt wierd on it and I feel better off it.
It would be nice if we could just inject T and feel ontop of the world. Some guys can do that and im jealous of it. I dont know how long I will continue to troubleshoot until I come to the conclusion its not gonna work for me. The challenge is my quality of life living at 250ng/dl levels. And realistically how long can i live like that? 5 years? MAYBE 10? I will have to go back on TRT at some point. If i was say 60 or 70 yrs old i wouldnt care. But at 30 coming off TRT is not exactly a longterm solution.
This is why I continue to try to troubleshoot and hope I find the balance.
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It's as of something is stuck in there-best way I can describe it. And it's right where my nodules are located. When it happens I generally feel zombified and like I have no blood flowing where it should be. I have been on/off cytomel which on certain days made me feel almost completely normal when combined with testosterone.. Of course my shitty endo took me off of it due to my thyroid nodules.. Which he says not to worry about yet are clearly causing me issues lol. I'm a tough case tho as I have celiac disease which is an autoimmune disease. The trt helps with this to an extent also. Wish I had the answers but for me at least it seems thyroid/testosterone are interrelated and both affect each other. Also the thyroid med you were on I don't think was sufficient. Usually a combo of t3/t4 is needed. Not saying you even need thyroid intervention, but if trt is only "kinda working" and something still feels off, it's not a bad place to look. Thyroid rules metabolism and I can show you tons of papers where T3 actually has a pronounced Viagra like effect. Again sorry for hijacking cubbie just thought at least it might be another angle to approach.
I've got the thyroid nodules too but currently am not treating them with anything. TSH is around 2.0 I've had it down to 1.0 and I don't feel ANY different. I've also had it down to 0 and at that point I am hyperthyroid and feel like crud.
