Est Cyp. Advice

[johnathann]

Hey all,
New user here, and fairly new to roids, but I've done a test c only cycle at 375mg/week with 12.5 aromasin e3d. I cut that cycle short and am back on TRT because I had issues with e2 management and I kept over or undershooting it no matter what I tried dosing wise, but for my upcoming cycle, I was planning on eliminating aromatization and using exogenous estradiol cypionate, and I was wondering if anybody could share some advice on doing so. Heres what I have planned

Test C 375mg/week
Primo E 200-300mg/week
Estradiol C 0.15mg/week
Aromasin 12.5mg ed (25 if e2 isn't completely gone from this and primo)

I plan to crush aromatized estrogen to zero using the primo, and the aromasin more frequntly, relying solely on exogenous e2, and above is the dosing I dug up for the "sweet spot" so to speak (I know everybody is different).

I would like to keep my e2 around 20-35pg/mL.

I realize most est cyp is sold at 10mg/mL, so would this just be an insanely small quantity pinned in an insulin syringe, or did I fuck up the dosing and is it .15mL (1.5 mg)/week?

I considered running primo and test with an AI and dbol, but too much trial and error for my liking.
Anyways, if anybody could shoot some anecdotes on blood estrogen they had on a certain est cyp dosing that would be great.

Thanks Meso,

John

 

[cousinmuscles]

Apologies in advance for the harshness, but just dump that idea in the bin. You can just run your original 375 test cyp/week and do 12.5mg aromasin per week. Don't aim for numbers in blood work, aim for feeling best, having good blood pressure, libido, mood et.c.

 

[Cman90]

Sounds a little crazy bro lol. If you had problems trying to balance e2 with 1 compound (asin), trying to balance it with 3 (primo, asin, e2 cyp) will be even more difficult. Also, that much asin could have significant negative sides of its own (much less does for me).

I think it would be far better for you to dial in endogenous e2 to your liking with primo and AI.

 

[johnathann]

Thanks for the replies. How significantly does primo lower your e2 in your experience? I've heard of guys crushing their e2 with 1:5 primo to test, but at that point id rather not even run primo. it seems like most guys prefer a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio, but could i go closer to 2:3 should I toss in a wet compound like injectable dbol (i dont want to do orals for now haha)

or bumping my test to 500

 

[BALLISTIC]

Hey all,
New user here, and fairly new to roids, but I've done a test c only cycle at 375mg/week with 12.5 aromasin e3d. I cut that cycle short and am back on TRT because I had issues with e2 management and I kept over or undershooting it no matter what I tried dosing wise, but for my upcoming cycle, I was planning on eliminating aromatization and using exogenous estradiol cypionate, and I was wondering if anybody could share some advice on doing so. Heres what I have planned

Test C 375mg/week
Primo E 200-300mg/week
Estradiol C 0.15mg/week
Aromasin 12.5mg ed (25 if e2 isn't completely gone from this and primo)

I plan to crush aromatized estrogen to zero using the primo, and the aromasin more frequntly, relying solely on exogenous e2, and above is the dosing I dug up for the "sweet spot" so to speak (I know everybody is different).

I would like to keep my e2 around 20-35pg/mL.

I realize most est cyp is sold at 10mg/mL, so would this just be an insanely small quantity pinned in an insulin syringe, or did I fuck up the dosing and is it .15mL (1.5 mg)/week?

I considered running primo and test with an AI and dbol, but too much trial and error for my liking.
Anyways, if anybody could shoot some anecdotes on blood estrogen they had on a certain est cyp dosing that would be great.

Thanks Meso,

John

That sounds logical, but it is biologically wrong. Your body does not just need “estradiol.” It needs estradiol produced locally inside tissues via aromatase. Your plan may be solid if you drop the AI.

Primo doesn't annihilate the aromatization factor it modifies it, suppresses if you will. Aromasin destroys the enzymes by suicide. If you take Aromasin, you are literally removing the body’s ability to make estrogen in tissues for days. Primo does not destroy aromatase. It suppresses it through androgenic signaling and hepatic regulation. Which means less estrogen is produced, but local conversion still happens, tissue estrogen is reduced, not eliminated.

The AI is the burdening factor here, your better off modifying the dose of T/Prim accordingly, and add E2cyp as needed.

Now there is no way to state a dosage for you individually. You'll want to wait until primo hits serum levels and starts to take effect. Then only then, based off labs would you introduce E2, say at .5mg weekly to start. Pull labs again to verify and then increase dose as needed.

I was just conversing with other clear minded individuals in this thread. Check it out for some further insight.

Thread 'E2 in Range But Joints and Tendons FUBAR' https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/e2-in-range-but-joints-and-tendons-fubar.134434009/

Also this thread, he's not the first to do it, and prove it works. But his final report will be interesting.

Thread 'Unique Test/Primo/E2 Base Cycle + EO Experiment' https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/unique-test-primo-e2-base-cycle-eo-experiment.134434026/

 

[BALLISTIC]

Thanks for the replies. How significantly does primo lower your e2 in your experience? I've heard of guys crushing their e2 with 1:5 primo to test, but at that point id rather not even run primo. it seems like most guys prefer a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio, but could i go closer to 2:3 should I toss in a wet compound like injectable dbol (i dont want to do orals for now haha)

or bumping my test to 500

No way to say really for ratio. It's going to be solely dependant on your response. I can run T/prim 2:1 better at 3:1, EQ is different I minimal have to be at 4:1.

 

[johnathann]

That sounds logical, but it is biologically wrong. Your body does not just need “estradiol.” It needs estradiol produced locally inside tissues via aromatase. Your plan may be solid if you drop the AI.

Primo doesn't annihilate the aromatization factor it modifies it, suppresses if you will. Aromasin destroys the enzymes by suicide. If you take Aromasin, you are literally removing the body’s ability to make estrogen in tissues for days. Primo does not destroy aromatase. It suppresses it through androgenic signaling and hepatic regulation. Which means less estrogen is produced, but local conversion still happens, tissue estrogen is reduced, not eliminated.

The AI is the burdening factor here, your better off modifying the dose of T/Prim accordingly, and add E2cyp as needed.

Now there is no way to state a dosage for you individually. You'll want to wait until primo hits serum levels and starts to take effect. Then only then, based off labs would you introduce E2, say at .5mg weekly to start. Pull labs again to verify and then increase dose as needed.

I was just conversing with other clear minded individuals in this thread. Check it out for some further insight.

Thread 'E2 in Range But Joints and Tendons FUBAR' E2 in Range But Joints and Tendons FUBAR

Also this thread, he's not the first to do it, and prove it works. But his final report will be interesting.

Thread 'Unique Test/Primo/E2 Base Cycle + EO Experiment' https://thinksteroids.com/community/threads/unique-test-primo-e2-base-cycle-eo-experiment.134434026/

I love this idea of essentially crushing the e2 with primo and using exogenous estrogen as needed... one problem: i cant affford 500mg/week primo hahaha

 

[johnathann]

That sounds logical, but it is biologically wrong. Your body does not just need “estradiol.” It needs estradiol produced locally inside tissues via aromatase. Your plan may be solid if you drop the AI.

Primo doesn't annihilate the aromatization factor it modifies it, suppresses if you will. Aromasin destroys the enzymes by suicide. If you take Aromasin, you are literally removing the body’s ability to make estrogen in tissues for days. Primo does not destroy aromatase. It suppresses it through androgenic signaling and hepatic regulation. Which means less estrogen is produced, but local conversion still happens, tissue estrogen is reduced, not eliminated.

The AI is the burdening factor here, your better off modifying the dose of T/Prim accordingly, and add E2cyp as needed.

Now there is no way to state a dosage for you individually. You'll want to wait until primo hits serum levels and starts to take effect. Then only then, based off labs would you introduce E2, say at .5mg weekly to start. Pull labs again to verify and then increase dose as needed.

I was just conversing with other clear minded individuals in this thread. Check it out for some further insight.

Thread 'E2 in Range But Joints and Tendons FUBAR' E2 in Range But Joints and Tendons FUBAR

Also this thread, he's not the first to do it, and prove it works. But his final report will be interesting.

Thread 'Unique Test/Primo/E2 Base Cycle + EO Experiment' Unique Test/Primo/E2 Base Cycle + EO Experiment

But you're saying that while using an AI, you would still feel low estrogen and face the sides even with exogenous, because it wasn't made in the tissue?

The more I think I know about gear, the less I realize I know...

 

[BALLISTIC]

But you're saying that while using an AI, you would still feel low estrogen and face the sides even with exogenous, because it wasn't made in the tissue?

Yes exactly, in labs, paper you would look okay from injectable E. Feeling wise you'll suffer. See primo doesn't destroy aromatase, it modifies it's production for simple terms. So it still occurs, but think of the tortoise racing the rabbit. It's happening just much slower. Without injectable E, those running primo cycles with low T for the combination will eventually suffer from overall low E, however they are still having aromatization.

By adding the E you bring up total estradiol. When you add estradiol cypionate in that environment, blood estrogen rises, tissues get more estrogen signal but local aromatization is still occurring. If you instead add Aromasin, you shut off the tortoise too.

 

[BALLISTIC]

I love this idea of essentially crushing the e2 with primo and using exogenous estrogen as needed... one problem: i cant affford 500mg/week primo hahaha

As a word of caution, I don't know how advanced you are in your knowledge of cycles. This is playing with fire essentially. If you inject to much and don't adjust according to labs and actual working knowledge, you can't get rid of it. AI won't touch injectable E. So just be cautious.

 

[johnathann]

As a word of caution, I don't know how advanced you are in your knowledge of cycles. This is playing with fire essentially. If you inject to much and don't adjust according to labs and actual working knowledge, you can't get rid of it. AI won't touch injectable E. So just be cautious.

so would you recommend running test at 375 and primo titrating from 100 until when i feel best? how often should i bump the primo to gauge its effect on e2?
could i theoretically run primo at 300 out of the gate, and if (when) i feel like shit add injectable dbol for some estrogen subsrate, or simply bump the test?