Ex pro endurance athlete here

[jimmy endurance]

Ex pro endurance athlete here.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4). Iv'e seen doping develop over the years. One thing about TRT for endurance is the body is only getting one exaggerated benefit. On T all long distance athletes will go slower, but can train harder so come race day you're clear and loose the water leading up. HCG is a must for an endurance athlete on TRT. In fact now HCG/HMG is most beneficial for an endurance athlete. You. will stop the depletion of natural T this way.

EPO was simple until the better tests. Now the only one is Zeta variant with daily macrodosing IV. Similar with GH. Its still almost undetectable but there is concern of non pharma brands getting contaminated with GHRP which is very easy to detect.

T4 isn't banned and is a great aid to an endurance athlete if they are training hard enough.

There is a big discrepancy between a pro and as a very fit working athlete. This next part is dangerous, commonly used. Remember this is their job.

Traimcinalone (corticoid) 40mg IM deep glute will strip fat, excess muscle off for 4 weeks into a key event. A. therapeutic use form can be given, or just stating you are using a topical product.

Real AICAR is very expensive but is commonplace, even orally. GWs are a no go because of the testing. GW will give the biggest gains to those who are not at a good level. PPAR activation is most likely at its maximum so there is no more room to move up.

Insulin post workout is used to replenish carbohydrates ASAP.

Narcotic painkillers are used, a lot. Some are not even banned whatsoever. The same with sleep medication.

Much like all sports off season training mode and race mode will look very different. Off season more GH is used with higher T especially since this is the time strength and conditioning training is part of the training cycle.

It must be noted that weekly blood tests at that level mean you are able to adjust or is causing a health issue later

 

[Chips7]

Ex pro endurance athlete here.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4). Iv'e seen doping develop over the years. One thing about TRT for endurance is the body is only getting one exaggerated benefit. On T all long distance athletes will go slower, but can train harder so come race day you're clear and loose the water leading up. HCG is a must for an endurance athlete on TRT. In fact now HCG/HMG is most beneficial for an endurance athlete. You. will stop the depletion of natural T this way.

EPO was simple until the better tests. Now the only one is Zeta variant with daily macrodosing IV. Similar with GH. Its still almost undetectable but there is concern of non pharma brands getting contaminated with GHRP which is very easy to detect.

T4 isn't banned and is a great aid to an endurance athlete if they are training hard enough.

There is a big discrepancy between a pro and as a very fit working athlete. This next part is dangerous, commonly used. Remember this is their job.

Traimcinalone (corticoid) 40mg IM deep glute will strip fat, excess muscle off for 4 weeks into a key event. A. therapeutic use form can be given, or just stating you are using a topical product.

Real AICAR is very expensive but is commonplace, even orally. GWs are a no go because of the testing. GW will give the biggest gains to those who are not at a good level. PPAR activation is most likely at its maximum so there is no more room to move up.

Insulin post workout is used to replenish carbohydrates ASAP.

Narcotic painkillers are used, a lot. Some are not even banned whatsoever. The same with sleep medication.

Much like all sports off season training mode and race mode will look very different. Off season more GH is used with higher T especially since this is the time strength and conditioning training is part of the training cycle.

It must be noted that weekly blood tests at that level mean you are able to adjust or is causing a health issue later

Hi thanks for sharing this information.

When you have a contest, your clearing everything and go HCG/HMG ? No more test at this time ?

What is the mechanism of T4 for boosting endurance ?

 

[Millard]

Ex pro endurance athlete here.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4). Iv'e seen doping develop over the years. One thing about TRT for endurance is the body is only getting one exaggerated benefit. On T all long distance athletes will go slower, but can train harder so come race day you're clear and loose the water leading up. HCG is a must for an endurance athlete on TRT. In fact now HCG/HMG is most beneficial for an endurance athlete. You. will stop the depletion of natural T this way.

EPO was simple until the better tests. Now the only one is Zeta variant with daily macrodosing IV. Similar with GH. Its still almost undetectable but there is concern of non pharma brands getting contaminated with GHRP which is very easy to detect.

T4 isn't banned and is a great aid to an endurance athlete if they are training hard enough.

There is a big discrepancy between a pro and as a very fit working athlete. This next part is dangerous, commonly used. Remember this is their job.

Thank you for sharing this!

There's not a lot of open uncensored internet discussion on PEDs for endurance sports. There are quite a few athletes seeking such info that frequently end up on bodybuilding/powerlifting/strength forums looking for advice. But obviously well-meaning individuals try to apply what works for muscle size/strength to the demands/goals of endurance sports. It''s often bad advice with too many drugs and too high dosages.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4).

I see therapeutic TRT as almost an essential harm reduction strategy for extreme endurance training.

The sport itself (extreme endurance training) is far more dangerous than the risks accompanying TRT. TRT makes the sports healthier. TRT ameliorates many of the risks associated with suppressed hormones.

Low T causes a myriad of health problems especially in older, masters endurance athletes. Ironically, cardiovascular problems are a concern.

I hope you stick around and continue to share your insight!

 

[I6JQdr06]

There's not a lot of open uncensored internet discussion on PEDs for endurance sports. There are quite a few athletes seeking such info that frequently end up on bodybuilding/powerlifting/strength forums looking for advice. But obviously well-meaning individuals try to apply what works for muscle size/strength to the demands/goals of endurance sports. It''s often bad advice with too many drugs and too high dosages.

Couldn’t agree more @Millard. I’m one of those people.

Over the past year my TRT dose has dropped from 280mg, to 200, to 175, and now 150. I’m still very much in the dark about how and what to cycle for maximising recovery while minimising weight gain, and how this would be planned around my periodised training. This is not due to a lack of time spent researching, just lack of available information.

The problem is that body builders don’t always realise that they’re not the only people to use PEDs (they’re just the only people to talk about it). They can sometimes get a little, how would one say it, cognitively dissonant when faced with athletes asking questions/proposing needs and use cases that differ from their own

I’d go as far as to advise sports people to avoid bodybuilding forums if they’re looking for harm reduction info on PEDs for athletic performance. Where should they go? I’ve actually no idea.

Traimcinalone (corticoid) 40mg IM deep glute will strip fat, excess muscle off for 4 weeks into a key event. A. therapeutic use form can be given, or just stating you are using a topical product.

@jimmy endurance thanks so
Much for the info. I’d love to hear more about corticosteroid use. Does corticosteroid use increase the chance of soft tissue injury while training? I understand they weaken tendons?

How is training adjusted during corticosteroid use? Would a normal ‘peak followed by taper’ protocol still be leveraged? What other PEDs would be used during this peak phase?

Are corticosteroids usually run alongside anabolics other than TRT?

Corticosteroids make you hungry, right? How is this dealt with if the aim is to lose body mass?

Sorry for all the questions. Your willingness to talk about this stuff isn’t encountered very often.

 

[animalwithin9]

I’d go as far as to advise sports people to avoid bodybuilding forums if they’re looking for harm reduction info on PEDs for athletic performance. Where should they go? I’ve actually no idea.

I wish you had an answer for this question. I do agree there is a lack of "space" for those seeking athletic performance compared to bodybuilding

 

[I6JQdr06]

Because so many people (coaches) make money out of being the only people in the know. And everyone’s pretending that widespread athletic doping doesn’t exist anyway

 

[Millard]

The problem is that body builders don’t always realise that they’re not the only people to use PEDs (they’re just the only people to talk about it). They can sometimes get a little, how would one say it, cognitively dissonant when faced with athletes asking questions/proposing needs and use cases that differ from their own

I’d go as far as to advise sports people to avoid bodybuilding forums if they’re looking for harm reduction info on PEDs for athletic performance. Where should they go? I’ve actually no idea.

I think there is definitely a need for this type of information for non-strength athletes using PEDs.

It's no secret that I hope to make MESO inclusive of harm reduction for EVERYONE who uses PEDs.

Many bodybuilders/powerlifters and other strength athletes are extremely knowledgeable about the PEDs themselves, side effect management, and other things that can contribute to harm reduction.

However, I concur when it comes to applications for endurance athletes, this is not there strength NPI.

Hopefully, we can see more guys like @amorgan90 and @jimmy endurance stop by and share some knowledge and experience.

 

[cyclist00]

I disagree with the first post a bit based on my own experience at a high level amateur and friends that were domestic pros. Water GAIN prior to an event due to enhanced glycogen loading made for extra matches to burn in a race. I've tried shedding water and glycogen to get as tiny as possible pre-race but wound up with cramps and fading power towards the end of events.

You can and absolutely WILL get busted for EPO, corticos, and especially test. Nobody even on the domestic pro teams have real doctors or doctors that supervise their doping, and unless you are able to pay someone to help you dope, guessing and hoping isn't a good plan. Got one of my buddies busted that way, lost his contract too.

I felt like test 48 hours before an event along with glycogen loading 24 hours before led to the best outcomes performance wise, even though it was risky. Come in a few pounds water logged with a ton of glycogen on-board and well rested, plus some of the CNS stimulation that comes from test, and I could throw down big power numbers on Saturday/Sunday.

I never used EPO, but my buddy that did had to iron load before hand and then had to buy his own crit spinner and measure it all the time and even drain his own blood to keep his HCT in check. He also experimented with corticos and found that he really like them, but they could also block his legs up sometimes and have a negative effect. I never used them.

I think the GLP-1 agonists have a HUGE appeal, as weight loss is key for endurance sports so long as you can maintain power output and recovery. Plus they are still legal to use. Would not surprise me if people are using this now.

AICAR was never used when my buddies were pros, none of us had any money anyway so even buying test and epo was expensive. HGH was a waste of money, nobody touched it in our circle.

Things like tamoxifen or clomid, or AI's were a waste too, though maybe there was something and it was just too small to notice. Two times I checked my test levels after taking tamoxifen, my test did go up, but my SHBG went up too and my free test never improved. Last time it went down LOL even though total test was up like 30%.

I'd love some more discussion on current trends in the endurance world, I've been out for a decade or more, but coming back to race masters now.

 

[hoogyboogy]

Ex pro endurance athlete here.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4). Iv'e seen doping develop over the years. One thing about TRT for endurance is the body is only getting one exaggerated benefit. On T all long distance athletes will go slower, but can train harder so come race day you're clear and loose the water leading up. HCG is a must for an endurance athlete on TRT. In fact now HCG/HMG is most beneficial for an endurance athlete. You. will stop the depletion of natural T this way.

EPO was simple until the better tests. Now the only one is Zeta variant with daily macrodosing IV. Similar with GH. Its still almost undetectable but there is concern of non pharma brands getting contaminated with GHRP which is very easy to detect.

T4 isn't banned and is a great aid to an endurance athlete if they are training hard enough.

There is a big discrepancy between a pro and as a very fit working athlete. This next part is dangerous, commonly used. Remember this is their job.

Traimcinalone (corticoid) 40mg IM deep glute will strip fat, excess muscle off for 4 weeks into a key event. A. therapeutic use form can be given, or just stating you are using a topical product.

Real AICAR is very expensive but is commonplace, even orally. GWs are a no go because of the testing. GW will give the biggest gains to those who are not at a good level. PPAR activation is most likely at its maximum so there is no more room to move up.

Insulin post workout is used to replenish carbohydrates ASAP.

Narcotic painkillers are used, a lot. Some are not even banned whatsoever. The same with sleep medication.

Much like all sports off season training mode and race mode will look very different. Off season more GH is used with higher T especially since this is the time strength and conditioning training is part of the training cycle.

It must be noted that weekly blood tests at that level mean you are able to adjust or is causing a health issue later

You seem very knowledgeable and educated on doping in the endurance sport world. I am a female distance runner who focuses on the 1500/3k/5k. What kind of PED do you think I would see the most benefit from? I was thinking gh, but I heard it is bad for the heart. However, I heard it boosts recovery so that you can train harder more often. I was then thinking trt/nandrolone, but I am unsure. There is so little information about using peds to enhance performance in sports, so looking for some insight.

 

[speedyboi]

Ex pro endurance athlete here.

Replacing T even to mid level will be a boost, since the more you train the more hormones shut down (Test, gh, T4). Iv'e seen doping develop over the years. One thing about TRT for endurance is the body is only getting one exaggerated benefit. On T all long distance athletes will go slower, but can train harder so come race day you're clear and loose the water leading up. HCG is a must for an endurance athlete on TRT. In fact now HCG/HMG is most beneficial for an endurance athlete. You. will stop the depletion of natural T this way.

EPO was simple until the better tests. Now the only one is Zeta variant with daily macrodosing IV. Similar with GH. Its still almost undetectable but there is concern of non pharma brands getting contaminated with GHRP which is very easy to detect.

T4 isn't banned and is a great aid to an endurance athlete if they are training hard enough.

There is a big discrepancy between a pro and as a very fit working athlete. This next part is dangerous, commonly used. Remember this is their job.

Traimcinalone (corticoid) 40mg IM deep glute will strip fat, excess muscle off for 4 weeks into a key event. A. therapeutic use form can be given, or just stating you are using a topical product.

Real AICAR is very expensive but is commonplace, even orally. GWs are a no go because of the testing. GW will give the biggest gains to those who are not at a good level. PPAR activation is most likely at its maximum so there is no more room to move up.

Insulin post workout is used to replenish carbohydrates ASAP.

Narcotic painkillers are used, a lot. Some are not even banned whatsoever. The same with sleep medication.

Much like all sports off season training mode and race mode will look very different. Off season more GH is used with higher T especially since this is the time strength and conditioning training is part of the training cycle.

It must be noted that weekly blood tests at that level mean you are able to adjust or is causing a health issue later

Can you talk more about the benefits of HCG. I am a non-professional runner trying to cut down the last bits of time to earn my OTQ, I’m currently using EPO, HGH, and Test (I’ll be ending most of the products prior to my testing window before the CIM in December, and luckily am not subject to randomized doping control), but I hadn’t considered adding HCG to the mix.

 

[Alyk89]

@jimmy did you or your friends ever look at something like Proviron to lower SHBG?