MESO-Rx Exclusive Exogenous Growth Hormone and Nocturnal Endogenous Secretions

[ChestRockwell]

Exogenous Growth Hormone and Nocturnal Secretions

The next article in the GH series is now up. I have seen a lot of confusion and arguments in the past regarding what happens to endogenous GH secretions when exogenous GH is used and felt it could be interesting to dig into the literature to see what we can learn. Please feel free to use this thread to ask any questions you have on the article. Comments and suggestions are also welcomed...

 

[Goingstronger]

You have no idea how satisfying it is to now have an article that puts a halt to one of the biggest « bro-scienced » internet debates.

All these protocols outlined by keyboard warriors wrapped in their doctor tone of speach, can now rest in peace.

« Inject in the morning or you will blunt your night spurt! »

A true delight to have some science behind that, and to finally be able to conclude: you can inject rHGH whenever, it doesn’t make a damn difference.

Thank you sir!

 

[ChestRockwell]

Thanks @Goingstronger - I appreciate that

 

[XmadXscientist]

You have been putting in some serious work the last couple months and the articles have been spectacular! I love that you’ve taken time to find legitimate references to back everything up imagine the amount of time you’ve put into this is considerable.

Thanks for helping the community.

 

[ChestRockwell]

I love that you’ve taken time to find legitimate references to back everything up imagine the amount of time you’ve put into this is considerable.

Thanks man! Despite this, I still encourage everyone to dig into the references themselves. Not only can this be a great tool for expanding knowledge, I also want folks to hold me accountable. These are simply my interpretations of the data, and I'm certainly not infallible

 

[Rockclimber]

So if GH suppression can be 18 to 24 hours post injection what are the thoughts on using a 5 day on 2 day off schedule? It seems like you would be suppressed for much of the following day that you took off therefore I would imagine a 7-Day on schedule would be more beneficial when you take price out of the equation?

 

[ChestRockwell]

what are the thoughts on using a 5 day on 2 day off schedule?

Remember, just because there is suppression doesn't mean that GH levels stay elevated that long. In fact, one of the studies I cited in the article clearly showed that endogenous suppression occurs far beyond the time that GH should have cleared the system.

My own personal thoughts are that protocols such as 5/2 simply developed out of budgetary concerns. I used to wonder if it could be used to sensitize intracellular pathways but have long since realized that the desensitization is quite acute in nature, not requiring a full day off.

 

[mands]

Thanks for posting. I know we talked about this a few months back and appreciate the follow up.

mands

 

[LordSamuilo]

@ChestRockwell say you were only doing a 2iu shot in the a.m. , since this would surpress p.m. endogenous secretions would ghrp's or peptides of any kind be pointless to add in post-workout & pre-bed ?

I believe ive seen you say you dont put to much weight into peptides ? But , for the sake of argument would these force a p.m. secretion , or would it make no difference at all ? Of course this is assuming you're peps are being made from a legit source using recombinant dna and all other variables being equal , to not muddy the waters too much. Even though thats probably not typically the case.

The reason I ask is ive seen a few modestly noteworthy coaches protocols where they had clients running hgh a.m. and pre-workout and peptides post workout and pre-bed ? The only thing I can assume is money is the limiting factor and reasoning to this approach , but does it even have any merit or a complete waste of money ?

Edit: I should also add to this that lypolosis is the primary goal trying to be achieved.

And by the way thank you for taking the time to do all of these articles , its an amazing source of infomation ! I dont know how you find the time to do it all but its much appreciated

 

[Goingstronger]

@ChestRockwell say you were only doing a 2iu shot in the a.m. , since this would surpress p.m. endogenous secretions would ghrp's or peptides of any kind be pointless to add in post-workout & pre-bed ?

I believe ive seen you say you dont put to much weight into peptides ? But , for the sake of argument would these force a p.m. secretion , or would it make no difference at all ? Of course this is assuming you're peps are being made from a legit source using recombinant dna and all other variables being equal , to not muddy the waters. Even though thats probably not typically the case.

The reason I ask is ive seen a few modestly noteworthy coaches protocols where they had clients running hgh a.m. and pre-workout and peptides post workout and pre-bed ? The only thing I can assume is money is the limiting factor and reasoning to this approach , but does it even have any merit or a complete waste of money ?

And by the way thank you for taking the time to do all these articles , its an amazing source of infomation ! I dont know how you find the time to do it all but its much appreciated

Wondering the same: if you can force a GH secretion with peptides before bed while hgh was pinned morning time.

That would make a huge difference for my sleep patterns

 

[ChestRockwell]

@LordSamuilo @Goingstronger Although I'm not currently aware of any controlled trials that attempted to answer this very question, my current belief is that using the peptides in the PM would either:
a) do nothing
b) have a very suppressed effect as compared to what would be expected

As has been seen in the studies I cited in this article, there are clear negative feedback regulators on endogenous GH secretion that last many hours after even a small exogenous rHGH injection. And the suppression lasts long after the exogenous rHGH has cleared the system.

So, until we have someone who has the means and desire to do a little self-experiment on themselves, this would be my best answer at this time...

 

[Xlgx]

Just started mk677 in the evenings and gh in the morning fasted. Bloods in may.

 

[Goingstronger]

Just started mk677 in the evenings and gh in the morning fasted. Bloods in may.

To be completely scientifically valid, the experiment would need to involve a GHRH&GHRP combo and a gh blood test 1h after the peptides pin to confirm if there’s indeed a gh spike.

The issue with Mk is you won’t know when the gh peak will happen and you won’t be able to test whether it does create gh secretion in spite of the rhgh.

 

[ChestRockwell]

To be completely scientifically valid, the experiment would need to

To setup a personal case study would likely require someone with connections to a laboratory. It would be a fairly complex testing methodology with a significant amount of blood draws over the course of 24-48 hours. Likely not realistic outside of a clinical setting...

 

[Xlgx]

I just did bloods for hgh 2iu eod. I will take bloods again when i add the mk677 to the protocol.

 

[Goingstronger]

I just did bloods for hgh 2iu eod. I will take bloods again when i add the mk677 to the protocol.

What values are you going to be monitoring?
Igf-1? How will you know any increase won’t be due to the 2iu rhgh from which you probably don’t have stable plasma levels yet? Or that it has increased due to other factors?
GH? There will be no conclusion to draw from this value either as it’s most likely suppressed from rhgh and any peak could as much be due to fortuity as to Mk

 

[Xlgx]

What values are you going to be monitoring?
Igf-1? How will you know any increase won’t be due to the 2iu rhgh from which you probably don’t have stable plasma levels yet? Or that it has increased due to other factors?
GH? There will be no conclusion to draw from this value either as it’s most likely suppressed from rhgh and any peak could as much be due to fortuity as to Mk

My igf was slightly lower on gh versus natural. My gh was 2.1 versus 0.1 natural.

I wonder if by adding mk677 my igf will increase Substantially.

 

[Goingstronger]

My igf was slightly lower on gh versus natural. My gh was 2.1 versus 0.1 natural.

I wonder if by adding mk677 my igf will increase Substantially.

On 2iu quality hgh your igf should be above top range

 

[Xlgx]

On 2iu quality hgh your igf should be above top range

It was above top range. Just not that much higher. Also it was 2iu eod. Humatrope.

I am using xerendip now. Will retest next month or so.

 

[Gigantic]

Exogenous Growth Hormone and Nocturnal Secretions

The next article in the GH series is now up. I have seen a lot of confusion and arguments in the past regarding what happens to endogenous GH secretions when exogenous GH is used and felt it could be interesting to dig into the literature to see what we can learn. Please feel free to use this thread to ask any questions you have on the article. Comments and suggestions are also welcomed...

Interesting. So just inject before bed?