Finally got my compounded testosterone gel!

GymJim

New Member
I saw Dr. C. (Swale) last month and had a good conversation with him, and followed up with bloodwork, and had pretty low testosterone results. I finally got my prescription for testosterone filled which just arrived today via Fedex direct from the lab. It came in a plastic squeeze tube- 10% testosterone (carbopol based gel). I am supposed to use 1 ml per day on my skin. I have to say that it is a pretty smallish amount of gel. It was hard to judge the 1 ml since the bottom of the inside of the plunger was sticking past where the lines are numbered, so I might have used a little more than 1 ml today in this first application.

I was wondering if any of you guys are using the compounded gel and where you are spreading it on your body.
 
Compounded Gel

Let us know how it works? I thought Swale didn't believe in compounded
testosterone products? You have to swab androgel all over your body if
you need two packs and in this heat you feel like it's coming out of your pores.
Are you using HCG?
 
bullmastiff said:
Let us know how it works? I thought Swale didn't believe in compounded
testosterone products? You have to swab androgel all over your body if
you need two packs and in this heat you feel like it's coming out of your pores.
Are you using HCG?

When I spoke to the doc, he seemed to think the compounded testosterone product worked similar to the Androgel but that the compounded test was "less consistant" than the Androgel. I am not sure exactly what was meant by that, but since several other docs recommend the compounded gel I figured it was worth a shot as it certainly is cheaper at $85 for a two month supply.

In any case I just started today. I was mostly surprised how little 1 ml of gel really is. Hardly any swabbing necessary. I think I accidentilly put way too much on in this first application since it was hard to measure out 1 ml as I pushed plunger end of the brand new tube. I am definitely going to have to ask about the HCG after I take this for a while and see how it affects my testosterne levels.
 
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Make sure you maximize the amount of area you apply it to. Even if it seems like 1ml will spread nicely onto an area the size of your forearms you should still try to spread that same amount into more skin if possible. A given amount of skin can only absorb so much T. After it is saturated the remaining T in the gel will only dry up on top of your skin and be wasted. Had it happen to me so I know it's true (besides, SWALE verified that this is something to watch out for)

Still, that sounds like a good amount of gel to use. Let us know how it works out.
 
RE: Compounded T Costs

RE: I am not sure exactly what was meant by that, but since several other docs recommend the compounded gel I figured it was worth a shot as it certainly is cheaper at $85 for a two month supply.

Boy, I wish that was true for most of us. I'd like to give compounded T cream a shot only since it is dosed stronger so a much smaller amount of cream (or gel) is necessary. Does anyone (SWALE?) have contacts with the reps for AndroGel and Testim to let them know that marketing it in stronger dose variations (2% and 5% and maybe even a 10% strength version) would make their products a lot more attractive! The excessive gel issue and its concurrent drying times and concerns with transference are really major issues.

BTW, do the transdermal compounded T products absorb fully by rubbing them in, and, if so, does that eliminate the concern with transference (I noted the posting about applying to forearms)?

Anyway, I am one of those individuals who is "stuck" on a disability pension which contains a specific insurance coverage (which of course you also pay for monthly in a deduction that comes right off the top... so it makes sense to use it as much as practical). With my insurance coverage, my co-pays for AndroGel at the rate of $120 for a year's supply (no matter what the daily dose), and Testim at the rate of $80 for a year's supply (no matter what the daily dose).

The $85 for two-months supply doesn't sound like much... unless one is on a very fixed income and also currently doing four other medications!

BTW, could you advise which Lab it was that you obtained this strength at this price?

Also, possibly SWALE (or someone technical) could advise about how much actual testosterone this is putting into the bloodstream and at what efficiency ration (i.e., 5 grams of AndroGel is 50 mg of testostoerone and of that 10%, or 5 mg, is - supposedly - getting into the bloodstream).

Thanks for any info (and "Good Luck" on your TRT progress!)

Larry
 
stat1951 said:
BTW, do the transdermal compounded T products absorb fully by rubbing them in, and, if so, does that eliminate the concern with transference (I noted the posting about applying to forearms)?

BTW, could you advise which Lab it was that you obtained this strength at this price?

Thanks for any info (and "Good Luck" on your TRT progress!)

Larry


Actually the other poster mentioned spreading the gel over "an area the size of the forearms", not actually on the forearms. I have been spreading it on my abdomen or chest or arms or shoulders. The area of both forerams by the way seems like an upper limit of the area that this smallish amount of gel (1 mL) can be spread out over given how little it is. I am spreading it as much as possible to get the max absorption out of it. Still there is some whitish residue on my skin where I slathered it on most thickly. I am actually wondering the opposite of you, if using such a concentrated form of Testosterone means I better be pretty careful about spreading it so it doesn't get wasted and I get the most absorption.

COMPOUNDER NAME EDITED BY SWALE: NOT READY TO ENDORSE ANYONE ON THIS FORUM YET.

I will give it a few more days to evaluate better how I am feeling on this stuff.
 
Thanks for update.

Always looking at various options - and any new products on the horizon.

Appreciate any future updates.

Larry
 
stat1951 said:
Does anyone (SWALE?) have contacts with the reps for AndroGel and Testim to let them know that marketing it in stronger dose variations (2% and 5% and maybe even a 10% strength version) would make their products a lot more attractive!

The FDA may be the bottleneck.
 
Testim

When I was on testim I had absorbtion from applying it under each arm in the arm pit area. I have little underarm hair so that was not a factor. I had really good T results on blood tests in the 800 to 1000 range. I would also smear some on testicles after application under arms using a little water to rewet it. I found that not only did it absorb really well I also did not have a need for deodorant, maybe because of the alcohol in the prep. or maybe because I have never had bad body odor. Don't know for sure. The underarm hair is a genetic thing as my fathewr had little to no underarm hair just Fyi. :D
 
savario said:
When I was on testim I had absorbtion from applying it under each arm in the arm pit area. I have little underarm hair so that was not a factor. I had really good T results on blood tests in the 800 to 1000 range. I would also smear some on testicles after application under arms using a little water to rewet it. I found that not only did it absorb really well I also did not have a need for deodorant, maybe because of the alcohol in the prep. or maybe because I have never had bad body odor. Don't know for sure. The underarm hair is a genetic thing as my fathewr had little to no underarm hair just Fyi. :D
When you were putting testim on the boys did you every get your DHT checked. I was doing this on Testim and my DHT went way up 3 times the highest level for my lab. This drove my prostate crazy I was up all night trying to pee.
Phil
 
cpeil2 said:
The FDA may be the bottleneck.


That could be the case... but is interesting that compounding pharmacies can put together compounded T creams and/or gels that are at much higher strengths (5%, 10%, etc.).

I guess they can do that as they are not providing a patented product - or maybe somehow they don't have to go through FDA???

Larry
 
Testim

Yeah I had all my labs done at like six month intervals including DHT and estrodiol they were all fine. My hypogonadism is really weird from what I have been reading on here and other places. All my labs were great LH FSH everything was/is perking along. My right testicleese had shrunk and was really squishy (for lack of a better word) but the left was fine and still is. the right one now that I'm replacement is even more squishy and tender to palpation, but the left is still about the same size. Doc didn't know what to tell me. He didn't know why my T's were below norm Like 165 in range of 250 - 1000. Had an MRI was clean. So now I am trying things on my own, I lost my job and my insurance so can't really go by anything other than how I feel with and without. Looking into getting insurance or maybe joining one of those lab test things just to make sure things are working but the way I feel is a good indicator that I am getting what I need.
 
cpeil2 said:
The FDA may be the bottleneck.
Sort of. The bottleneck, if Solvay was interested in making a new formulation of Androgel, if that new clinical trials need to be setup. Those trials cost a lot more than you would imagine (many millions) and time, of course. It also might great product confusion or it might even be an inferior product. But the idea nevertheless has possibilties.
 
My doc prescribes TestoCreme www.testocreme.com It's a 10% testosterone cream produced by 2 specific compounding pharmacies (CAP Pharmacy in Monterey, CA and College Pharmacy in Denver) in a PLO gel base which absorbs very well when applied to an are the size of a coke can. I apply one gram (one ml) of it daily on the rib area below my arm pits.

Only about 10% of any transdermal testosterone preparation will ultimately reach your bloodstream, so the 1 gram a day that I'm using is actually giving me a testosterone dose of about 100mg/day.
 
DHT Issues?

Since using the cream would take up much less area than using the gel, are DHT issues minimized because less 5-alpha reductase receptors are utilized? How are your DHT levels Mfiver?
 
Interesting Study

Seems applying transdermal T to less surface area results in lower DHT levels. This means using a higher concentration (5% to 1%) results in less skin area and less DHT.

Pharmacokinetics of Transdermal Testosterone Gel in Hypogonadal Men: Application of Gel at One Site Versus Four Sites: A General Clinical Research Center Study1
C. Wang, N. Berman, J. A. Longstreth, B. Chuapoco, L. Hull, B. Steiner, S. Faulkner, R. E. Dudley and R. S. Swerdloff
Division of Endocrinology, Departments of Medicine (C.W., B.C., L.H., B.S., R.S.S.) and Pediatrics (N.B.), HarborUCLA Medical Center and Research and Education Institute, Torrance, California 90509; and Unimed Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (J.A.L., S.F., R.E.D.), Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089

Address correspondence and requests for reprints to: Christina Wang, Clinical Study Center Box 16, HarborUCLA Medical Center, 1000 West Carson Street, Torrance, California 90509. E-mail: wang@gcrc.humc.edu.

Testosterone (T) in a hydroalcoholic gel has been developed as an effective and convenient open system for transdermal delivery of the hormone to men. Because the gel can be applied either to small or large areas of skin, it was important to assess whether the skin surface area on which the gel was applied was an important determinant of serum T levels. To answer this question, the pharmacokinetics of a transdermal 1% hydroalcoholic gel preparation of T was studied in nine hypogonadal men. The subjects applied in random order a 25-mg metered dose of T gel either four times at one site (left arm/shoulder) or at four different sites (left and right arms/shoulders and left and right abdomen) once daily (68 min) for 7 consecutive days. After 7 days of washout, each subject was then crossed over to the opposite regimen for another 7 days of treatment. Serum samples were collected for measurements of T, 5 dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and estradiol before, during (days 1, 2, 3, 5, and 7), and after (days 8, 9, 11, 13, and 15) application of T gel. Multiple blood samples were drawn on the 1st and 7th day after gel application; single samples were obtained just before the next T gel application on other days (24 h after the previous gel application). The T gel dried in less than 5 min, left no residue, and produced no skin irritation in any of the subjects. Mean serum T levels, irrespective of application at one site or four sites followed the same pattern: rising to 2- to 3- and 4- to 5-fold above baseline at 0.5 and 24 h after first application, respectively. Thereafter, serum T levels reached steady state and remained at 4- to 5-fold above baseline (at the upper limit of the normal adult range) for the duration of gel application and returned to baseline within 4 days after stopping application. The application of T gel at four sites (application skin area approximately four times that of one site) resulted in a mean area under the curve (AUC024h) for serum T levels on the 7th day (868 72 nmol*h/L, mean SEM), which was 23% higher but not significantly different (P = 0.06) than repeated application at one site (706 59 nmol*h/L). This could be due to the limited number of subjects studied (n = 9). Mean serum DHT levels followed the same pattern as serum T, achieving steady-state levels by 2 days. The mean concentration of serum DHT on the 7th day was significantly higher after application at four sites (9.15 1.26 nmol/L, P < 0.05) than at one site (6.9 0.77 nmol/L). These serum DHT levels were at or above the normal adult male range. Serum DHT:T ratio was not significantly altered by T gel application. Serum estradiol levels followed the same pattern as serum T and showed no significant difference between the one- or four-site application. We conclude that transdermal daily application of 100 mg T gel resulted in similar steady levels of serum T. The surface area of the skin to which the gel was applied had only a modest impact on serum T and DHT levels. Mean serum levels of T and DHT was higher by 23% and 33%, respectively, despite application of the gel to four times the skin area in the four sites compared with the one site group. Because of the greater dosage flexibility provided, hydroalcoholic T gel application over multiple sites seems to be an effective and nonskin-irritating method of transdermal T delivery for hypogonadal men. Dose-ranging studies are required to determine dosage regimens for T gel application as a replacement therapy in hypogonadal men.
 
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