Finally got my compounded testosterone gel!

stat1951,

The testosterone gel is probably compounded as he mentions this somewhere on his website. The 50mg dose of gel is once only in the morning.

Dr. Miller doesn't talk about injectable testosterone. He does however insist on the T being bioidentical and says they come in the form of patches, creams, gels and sublingual tablets or lozenges. He does mention another patient that takes sublingual lozenges 100mg per day.

His book is new and excellent and is a must have. It is co-written by the Life Extension Foundation www.lef.org.
 
1cc said:
stat1951,

The testosterone gel is probably compounded as he mentions this somewhere on his website. The 50mg dose of gel is once only in the morning. Dr. Miller doesn't talk about injectable testosterone. He does however insist on the T being bioidentical and says they come in the form of patches, creams, gels and sublingual tablets or lozenges. He does mention another patient that takes sublingual lozenges 100mg per day. His book is new and excellent and is a must have. It is co-written by the Life Extension Foundation www.lef.org.

Well, I'll definitely check his book out.

I am very familiar with LEF and use a lot of their data in researching stuff. While a lot of their data is good / excellent, there have been other claims that I have disagreed with. For example, their recommendation - at one point - of the use of Chrysin as an aromatase inhibitor. They cited studies that showed the Chrysin worked remarkably well in that regard (AI) in laboratory studies in test tubes... but meanwhile repeated studies showed that the effect was not duplicated in the human body as the Chrysin did not process orally from the digestive system into the bloodstream. Interestingly, LEF at the time was marketing an AI type supplement that contained Chrysin as one of the main ingredients....

As a side note to that side topic, there have been reports that transdermal applications of Chrysin might prove to in fact have the beneficial AI factors as demonstrated in the Lab... question is whether Chrysin's molecular structure would permit a transdermal application, are formulations offered with a micronized version of the Chrysin, are the transdermal formulations being used effective to insure that the Chrysin is in fact crossing the skin barrier... and have their been any studies that actually show that transdermal Chrysin has in fact shown to be a signigficant AI???

Larry
 
I apply my t cream to the inside of my forearms. I've really never noticed any dips in how I felt.
 
Here are some studies. Although neither gives a definative half life of t gel/cream, both are interesting...

Department of Endocrinology and Medicine, University of Manchester, Hope Hospital, Salford, United Kingdom.

Although the postmenopausal ovary remains an important source of testosterone (T) production, there is nevertheless a decline in total circulating androgen levels with age. A role for androgen replacement in addition to estrogens in some postmenopausal, particularly ovariectomized, women is increasingly gaining acceptance. We have compared the pharmacokinetics of two existing testosterone preparations, oral testosterone undecanoate (TU) and sc testosterone implants, with a new matrix transdermal delivery system for T. In study 1, three different doses of TU (40 mg, two 20-mg doses 6 h apart and two 10-mg doses 6 h apart, orally) were investigated in 10 postmenopausal women. Median peak levels of 18 nmol/L (range, 5.8-64.0 nmol/L; 40 mg), 12.3 nmol/L (range, 5.7-29.2 nmol/L; 20 mg), and 9.7 nmol/L (range, 7.8-28.7 nmol/L; 10 mg) were observed, but T levels varied considerably within and between subjects regardless of the dose used. In study 2, 30 women receiving s.c. estradiol therapy were randomized to receive either a 100-mg T implant or placebo. In the T-treated group, levels peaked at 8.9 +/- 1.7 nmol/L 1 month after insertion and then declined gradually to 2.9 +/- 0.4 nmol/L at 6 months. In study 3, a novel matrix transdermal delivery system for T was investigated in 6 females. Estimated daily delivery rates of 840 (TD 1), 1100 (TD2), and 3000 microg (TD3) T/24 h were investigated. T rose rapidly after a single application of TD 1 and TD2 and were relatively constant for the next 18 h, at which time peaks of 2.3 +/- 1.0 and 4.1 +/- 1.6 nmol/L, respectively, at 24 h were seen. T concentrations fell to baseline levels within 6 h after patch removal. When TD2 was applied for 7 days, a T level of 4.3 +/- 0.7 nmol was seen 24 h after application, falling gradually to 2.8 +/- 0.7 nmol/L by day 7. During twice weekly application of TD2, stable T concentrations were maintained, and all peak levels were similar (peak level, 4.2 +/- 0.3 nmol/L 24 h post-TD application) as were predose troughs (3.2 +/- 0.3 nmol). Twice weekly application of TD3 produced a similar pattern of T, and the mean peak and trough levels were 7.5 +/- 0.9 and 4.0 +/- 0.4 nmol/L, respectively. In conclusion, TU produced inappropriate high T levels at all doses, with wide variations between subjects, confirming that TU is unpredictably absorbed and unlikely to be satisfactory for use in women. Subcutaneous testosterone implants produce unphysiological T levels for at least 1-2 months. The transdermal matrix delivery system maintained relatively stable T levels within narrow ranges with little within- and between-subject variation. We conclude that such transdermal systems may be of value for androgen therapy in postmenopausal women because they provide a highly controllable way of delivering T noninvasively and reliably, and achieve mean physiological levels not possible with existing methods.


Pharmacokinetics of a transdermal testosterone system in men with end stage renal disease receiving maintenance hemodialysis and healthy hypogonadal men.

Singh AB, Norris K, Modi N, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Davidson T, Bhasin S.

Division of Endocrinology, Metabolism, and Molecular Medicine, Charles R. Drew University of Medicine and Science, Los Angeles, California 90059, USA.

Androgen deficiency is common in men with end stage renal disease (ESRD) on maintenance hemodialysis. Pharmacokinetics of transdermal testosterone in men receiving maintenance hemodialysis have not been studied. Our objective was to compare the pharmacokinetics of a transdermal testosterone system in healthy hypogonadal men and in men with ESRD on maintenance hemodialysis. We recruited 10 healthy hypogonadal men and 8 medically stable men on maintenance hemodialysis, 18--70 yr old, who had serum testosterone less than 300 ng/dL. After baseline sampling during a 24-h control period, two testosterone patches were applied daily for 28 days, to achieve a nominal delivery of 10-mg testosterone daily. In addition to single, pooled samples on days 7, 14, and 21, blood was drawn at 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 24 h on day 28 in healthy hypogonadal men and on an interdialytic day (day 21 or 28) as well as a dialysis day (day 21 or 28) in men on hemodialysis. On the dialysis day (day 21 or 28), serum free and total testosterone levels were measured hourly for 4 h before hemodialysis and for 4 h during hemodialysis. The dialysate was sampled for testosterone measurement. Baseline mean + SD total (92 +/- 82 vs. 222 +/- 50 ng/dL) and free (11 +/- 9 vs. 27 +/- 6 pg/mL) testosterone concentrations were lower in healthy hypogonadal men than in men with ESRD. After application of two testosterone patches, serum total and free testosterone concentrations rose into the midnormal range in both groups of men. Time-average, steady state (total testosterone, 506 +/- 88 vs. 516 +/- 86 ng/dL; free testosterone, 55 +/- 9 vs. 67 +/- 11 pg/mL), minimum, and maximum total and free testosterone concentrations were not significantly different between the two groups of men during treatment. Increments in total and free testosterone concentrations above baseline, baseline-subtracted areas under the total and free testosterone curves, and half-life of testosterone elimination (t(1/2), 2.1 +/- 0.1 vs. 2.1 +/- 0.2 h, P = not significant) were not significantly different between the two groups. In men receiving hemodialysis, time-average, steady state, and maximal total and free testosterone concentrations and baseline-subtracted areas under the total and free testosterone curves were higher on dialysis day than on an interdialytic day. On the day of hemodialysis, time-average total and free testosterone concentrations were not significantly different during the 4 h before or during hemodialysis. The amount of testosterone removed in the dialysate (8.4 +/- 1.6 microg during 4 h of hemodialysis) was small compared with the daily testosterone production rates in healthy young men. Serum dihydrotestosterone and estradiol concentrations increased into the normal male range and were not significantly different between the two groups. Percent suppression of LH was greater in men with ESRD than in healthy hypogonadal men. A regimen of two Testoderm TTS testosterone patches (Alza Corp., Mountain View, CA) daily can maintain serum concentrations of total and free testosterone and its metabolites dihydrotestosterone and estradiol in the midnormal range in healthy hypogonadal men and men on hemodialysis. The amount of testosterone cleared by hemodialysis is small, and hemodialysis does not significantly affect serum total and free testosterone concentrations in men treated with the testosterone patch
 
SPE said:
Next time I'll go in for blood tests I'll get tested 24 hours after my last application. We'll see if there are any differences.

After 24 hours, your T should have gone all the way back down to baseline. I guess if you wanted to check whether the release was over 24 hours, then you could test 12 hours after application and see what the level is at that point (i'm not sure what it should be at that point).

How long after applying your T cream are you able to wash it off and ensure not loosing any of your dose? Where do you get your T cream from?
 
When you use a gel or cream just under your skin the t is stored and goes into the blood over a long time. So if you were to stop the cream it could take days for you to go down to base line.
 
pmgamer18 said:
When you use a gel or cream just under your skin the t is stored and goes into the blood over a long time. So if you were to stop the cream it could take days for you to go down to base line.

See that's what I thought.
 
This is from the insert for Androgel.

http://www.androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

"When AndroGel treatment is discontinued after achieving steady state, serum testosterone levels remain in the normal range for 24 to 48 hours but return to their pretreatment levels by the fifth day after the last application."

It also looks like Androgel maintains pretty stable serum T levels, and so testing the next day should be okay, from what I have understood. I was under the impression that levels would be much higher the day before.
 
1cc said:
This is from the insert for Androgel.

http://www.androgel.com/images/ProfessionalInfo.pdf

"When AndroGel treatment is discontinued after achieving steady state, serum testosterone levels remain in the normal range for 24 to 48 hours but return to their pretreatment levels by the fifth day after the last application."

It also looks like Androgel maintains pretty stable serum T levels, and so testing the next day should be okay, from what I have understood. I was under the impression that levels would be much higher the day before.

That will vary from individual to individual (which is why AG insert says 24 to 48 hours). That is because the testosterone stored in the dermal layer under the skin continues to leach out the testosterone formulation that is stored there from where it penetrated the skin barrier.

I still would tend to think that if one did applications in thin skin areas where there is very, very minimal dermal layers under the skin (inside wrist, inner arm at elbow joint, scotal areas, inner thighs at crotch, etc.) that one would get a quicker testosterone spike but then a loss of being able to use the dermal layer as a "reservoir" for a steady release of Testosterone into the blood (i.e., achieving that steady state function). It still gets down to the fact that once a molecule of testosterone actualy hits the bloodstream that it has a half-life of approximately 70 minutes...

Larry
 
I used the compounded T cream for about 5 weeks and didnt really notice too much, although I do remember getting headaches a lot. I used it on my forearms, inner bicep, top of feet and inner thighs I switched and have been on 3 weeks of injections and Im starting to see differences.
 
doughbooy said:
I used the compounded T cream for about 5 weeks and didnt really notice too much, although I do remember getting headaches a lot. I used it on my forearms, inner bicep, top of feet and inner thighs I switched and have been on 3 weeks of injections and Im starting to see differences.

Apparently, from what I've heard regarding absorption studies, when it comes to the high concentration testosterone cream, the best place to put it is on the flank, high over the rib area, over an area about the size of one's palm, rubbed in using the heel of one's palm. An alternative area is the bicep - again over an area the size of one's palm. These areas have a preferable skin fat thickness for best absorption and disbursement, whereas other areas such as on the inner thighs have too much skin fat, causing problems with absorption and disbursement.
 
1cc said:
Have you noticed any shrinkage in your testicles? What are your lab numbers on this regimen?

I think my testicles may have shrunken just a little in the last six months, but they haven't become raisin sized. My testosterone serum level was tested once before I started on testosterone replacement and it was real low, like 110. Then after I consulted with Swale it was tested at 342 last summer. As of November my testosterone serum level was 528 ng/dL (out of a range of 241-827) after a few months on 10% testosterone gel.
 
Do you feel there is a rapid spike from using the PLO base? The compounding pharmacist I used to use thought that a cream is MUCH better due to the fact that PLO releases the t too fast, and the cream allows a steady release. Did Dr. John talk about this?
 
GymJim said:
As of November my testosterone serum level was 528 ng/dL (out of a range of 241-827) after a few months on 10% testosterone gel.

Did you do this lab before or after applying the gel in the morning?
 
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