First Cycle Proposal - Test E / Dbol

[IceKing07]

Hey guys,

Here is my proposal for my first cycle. Please see my intro thread for info about me and my goals.


Cycle (Source: PPL)


500mg Test Enthanate W 1-12

Mon / Thur pin 250mg - Thoughts on bi weekly pinning?


40mg Dianabol W 4-8 - Is this too high a dosage?

20mg morning / evening


6.25 - 12.5mg Aromasin W 4-24 or stop during break between cycle and PCT?

Mon / Thur / Sat

Start low bring up as needed


250IU HCG W 6-12 or 6-15? (end HCG at last Test injection or 2 weeks prior to PCT?)

Mon / Thur / Sat

Reference: hCG Profile


PCT – 5 weeks after last Test pin (Should this be two weeks?)

Reference: Comprehensive Guide to PCT

50mg Clomid W 18-23

20mg Nolva W 18-24

6.25 - 12.5mg Aromasin W 18-24


*I have heard conflicting reports about PCT start date… It seems the traditional wait time after cycle on Test E would be 2 weeks, however in the PCT reference link I provided (link to a thread by ApeShitFuckJacked) we see a new mindset that the levels of Test will not be zero until 5 half-lives have gone by.


I believe that is all my questions. I know this cycle is a tad aggressive for a first cycle with the Dbol and all, but I want to do this for real and get some serious results. The last thing I want is to have done all this research and stuck myself with a fuckin needle a hundred times for schmedium results.


Now, please proceed to run this through the fucking gauntlet. Tear me a new one fellas, I need the critique.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

I smell gyno, fat and water.

Who's your childhood idol? Barney ?

Fluffiness at its best

 

[Bullet train]

Hey guys,

Here is my proposal for my first cycle. Please see my intro thread for info about me and my goals.


Cycle (Source: PPL)


500mg Test Enthanate W 1-12

Mon / Thur pin 250mg - Thoughts on bi weekly pinning?


40mg Dianabol W 4-8 - Is this too high a dosage?

20mg morning / evening


6.25 - 12.5mg Aromasin W 4-12 or 4-24?

Mon / Thur / Sat

Start low bring up as needed


250IU HCG W 6-12 or 6-15? (end HCG at last Test injection or 2 weeks prior to PCT?)

Mon / Thur / Sat

Reference: hCG Profile


PCT – 5 weeks after end of cycle (Should this be two weeks?)

Reference: Comprehensive Guide to PCT

50mg Clomid W 18-23

20mg Nolva W 18-24

6.25 - 12.5mg Aromasin W 18-24


*I have heard conflicting reports about PCT start date… It seems the traditional wait time after cycle on Test E would be 2 weeks, however in the PCT reference link I provided (link to a thread by ApeShitFuckJacked) we see a new mindset that the levels of Test will not be zero until 5 half-lives have gone by.


I believe that is all my questions. I know this cycle is a tad aggressive for a first cycle with the Dbol and all, but I want to do this for real and get some serious results. The last thing I want is to have done all this research and stuck myself with a fuckin needle a hundred times for schmedium results.


Now, please proceed to run this through the fucking gauntlet. Tear me a new one fellas, I need the critique.

You need to read!

 

[Eman]

I smell gyno, fat and water.

Who's your childhood idol? Barney ?

Fluffiness at its best

Please, go run off of a tall building you worthless fuck.

 

[IceKing07]

Guys - Just want to clarify, my questions are only on topics where I have found conflicting info from multiple reliable sources or where I am asking for a subjective opinion.

I want you all to feel assured I have put the hours into researching this. If I didn't do enough or missed something easy, then I apologize.

 

[Eman]

Plot your cycle on steroidcalc. It'll help you figure out your PCT timing.

 

[Test_Subject]

I smell gyno, fat and water.

Who's your childhood idol? Barney ?

Fluffiness at its best

Do you ever say anything even remotely useful?

OP, you should run the dbol the first four weeks instead. The strength from it will give you a boost until the test builds up.

 

[Dr. Savage]

Yes bi-weekly will be fine. I did Monday and Thursday also

Do the dbol first 4 weeks from the very start

You may want to start your AI a little earlier bc the dbol will cause gyno problems. I'd start week one with 6.5 twice/three a week and bump it up to every other day and if that doesn't work or you get sensitive nips go up to 12.5

Some people say don't use an AI unless you feel symptoms but keeping your estrogen in check will help keep symptoms away and less bloat/water retention esp with dbol and how it's known for making nips sensitive from estrogen conversion

Run your AI all the way up until your pct. don't take your AI during pct bc your test will be dropping

For pct you'll be fine with 4 weeks but 5 will be okay if you want to do that. Do clomid at 50mg and nolvadex at 40mg for two weeks. Then clomid for 25 mg and nolva at 20mg for two weeks

Hcg will be up to you. It's a pretty mild cycle. Some people swear by using hcg every cycle and others don't. I would for sure if it was a heavier cycle with kore compounds though. Someone else will have to chime in about hcg

 

[IceKing07]

So guys, I'm checkin back in.

Got the goods on the way, pretty pumped about that. Shit was expensive enough holy fuck. Fuck it tho gotta make moves.

Feedback suggests I move the Dbol to the first 4 weeks, a classic move, and start the Aromasin right from the get go as well, both moves make sense to me. Think I'll go ahead and make those changes.

Got my bloods done: 448 ng/dl taken first thing in the morning. That means my shit is probably pretty low for most of the day. Not sure what your guys opinion on that is I'd appreciate the feedback. I know the normal range is 250-827.

Tbh the bloods kinda just confirmed my desire to do this. Like if this is the best test levels I'm gonna achieve naturally then it seems like a no brainer to give myself the most optimal levels possible through artificial means. Only fair

 

[Dr. Savage]

What's your age, weight and body fat percentage and years you've been training?

How's your diet?

You really gotta put in the work with training and diet to get anything out of aas. If you think you can half butt train or eat then you're going to get little to nothing back from it and lose it all when you come off. There's a section in meso for training and another section for nutrition. Check them out. There's tons of great info. I'm always learning from there and meso

 

[IceKing07]

@Dr. Savage

All my info is available in my intro thread and profile - I’m 23, 185lbs, bench: 275, squat: 315, deadlift: 405, probably 12-15% bf (measured 11.7%)

I have been lifting weights since I was 12, along with many sports like football, basketball, wrestling, mma, etc. I work out for an hour or two 4-6 times a week.

My diet is decent, I am not really worried about being skinnier or defined or whatever right now. My only goal is to build a large amount of muscle. I naturally have a kind of lanky look so if I try to shred too hard I look anorexic lol.

It’s been a struggle for me to get out of this plateau for a while. If I shred too much I look lanky, if I bulk too much I feel fat. I’ve gotten to the best middle ground I can get to but anything more will likely require a large lifestyle change like working out for hours a day in the middle of the night and shit. I don’t think that’s feasible. I’d rather do a cycle a year and go absolutely ham for three months then maintain. Or join the cruise and blast club cuz why not my test levels are kinda shitty anyways.

 

[IceKing07]

Well the cycle is almost finished my current profile pic is about where im at. Very happy with the results and looking forward to my next one

Biggest challenges came from the pinning. I was getting insane pip and crazy like test flu and swelling and all types of really bad injection related sides. But other than that I've been really chillin, like gyno and all that was very manageable and no other sides to see. I think switching to cyp from enanthate will help a lot and I've gotten a lot better at pinning, i don't use as large a needle - went from a 23 gauge 1.5 inch to a 25 gauge 1 inch and got a lot of immprovement. Still too big for delt pinning tho, that needs a insulin needle max.

 

[Theonejuicedaddy]

Well the cycle is almost finished my current profile pic is about where im at. Very happy with the results and looking forward to my next one

Biggest challenges came from the pinning. I was getting insane pip and crazy like test flu and swelling and all types of really bad injection related sides. But other than that I've been really chillin, like gyno and all that was very manageable and no other sides to see. I think switching to cyp from enanthate will help a lot and I've gotten a lot better at pinning, i don't use as large a needle - went from a 23 gauge 1.5 inch to a 25 gauge 1 inch and got a lot of immprovement. Still too big for delt pinning tho, that needs a insulin needle max.

All of your injection problems probably have to do with your source (PPL), having "virgin" muscle, and using test e. Many people do not handle test E very well; I personally think cypionate is the smoothest.

Glad the cycle went well. I personally would have done things a little different, but obviously I am commenting a bit late. How did mid-cycle bloodwork look? I don't know if your PCT question was ever answered, but before I started TRT, I liked to start nolvadex/clomid PCT 2.5 weeks after my last injection of testosterone. For some individuals, it might be better to wait a little longer, but given the mean half-life of that ester, I think 2.5 weeks will generally work for most people. I think people use a lot more clomid than needed, and often times experience sides. I would lay a PCT out like this:

Clomid:
50/25/25/25/25/25
Nolvadex:
20/20/20/20/10/10

HCG can be done in many different ways. I know Scally has a unique protocol (that works very well in application) but I don't totally agree with the science behind it. I PERSONALLY don't believe in using HCG in conjunction with PCT. It should be done beforehand, as HCG can actually be suppressive to natural testosterone production depending on the situation and timing of use. Keep in mind, I am not an MD like Scally is, I am just going by all of the medical journals I have read and anecdotal experience.

Best of luck in your recovery and future cycles.

 

[Dr. Savage]

How much did you gain? Make sure to do a full pct and take enough time off to recover fully

 

[IceKing07]

Hey guys thank you for the advice so I'm checking in now having just finished my PCT and gotten bloodwork done, will update again when I get them back.

PCT was not super fun but also went pretty well. I haven't taken anything in 5-6 weeks and I did the clomid and nolva PCT routine, was doing 100mg clomid and 40 mg nolva for a while so probably on the higher end of dosage. Haven't lost much of the gains - Pretty much as defined as when I finished, and I can hit the same weight just not as many reps. The only shitty thing about it is that you just undeniably don't feel as good when youre not on test even a trt dose.

So needless to say I am extremely pumped to start again, but don't want to rush it.

For my next cycle I got some masteron and deca so lets see how that works out. Gonna see how the bloods come back, just got a bunch of test e and c in the other day so I'm debating taking a trt dosage for a while until I start a real cycle.

Guys - Any input on trt ? I guess kind of like the "cruise and blast" approach? Like is that just too extreme or just a matter of preference?

 

[JackSmooth]

Hey guys thank you for the advice so I'm checking in now having just finished my PCT and gotten bloodwork done, will update again when I get them back.

PCT was not super fun but also went pretty well. I haven't taken anything in 5-6 weeks and I did the clomid and nolva PCT routine, was doing 100mg clomid and 40 mg nolva for a while so probably on the higher end of dosage. Haven't lost much of the gains - Pretty much as defined as when I finished, and I can hit the same weight just not as many reps. The only shitty thing about it is that you just undeniably don't feel as good when youre not on test even a trt dose.

So needless to say I am extremely pumped to start again, but don't want to rush it.

For my next cycle I got some masteron and deca so lets see how that works out. Gonna see how the bloods come back, just got a bunch of test e and c in the other day so I'm debating taking a trt dosage for a while until I start a real cycle.

Guys - Any input on trt ? I guess kind of like the "cruise and blast" approach? Like is that just too extreme or just a matter of preference?

Slow down bud. Youd be rolling the dice for a life long ticket on trt and youre only 23. Unless you plan on competing no one will advise you to blast and cruise. Get through your pct then have bloodwork done and see if you have a succseful recovery.

 

[IceKing07]

Ya so trt is pretty extreme then huh? Weird that so many people talk about it like its no big deal. Does it basically just make it harder to recover your natural test and fertility production if you were to stop?


I think I will definitely wait for the bloodwork to return then before I start doing anything. I have just finished a 5 week PCT, and last pinned maybe 7-8 weeks ago.

 

[JackSmooth]

Ya so trt is pretty extreme then huh? Weird that so many people talk about it like its no big deal. Does it basically just make it harder to recover your natural test and fertility production if you were to stop?


I think I will definitely wait for the bloodwork to return then before I start doing anything. I have just finished a 5 week PCT, and last pinned maybe 7-8 weeks ago.

Trt is a life long commitment. Your a slave to a needle for the rest of your life to have a therapeutic dose of testosterone active in your body. If you choose to cruise that can increase your chance of not being able to fully recover your own natural production of test. Im not saying its a forsure thing but your gambling with it if you decide to take that route so know the risk.

I feel for your goals Taking proper time off and running another cycle will be just fine. If you become more serious later on and decide to compete and get somewhere with it, then blasting and cruising can be considered.

 

[Sk8man101]

Nobody ever wants to come off man.
It’s part of the game though.

 

[IceKing07]

Great advice as always fellas,

So I got my post PCT bloodwork done like the day after I finished PCT. I just got the results back and wow was that shit a relief. I thought I was feeling like shit because my natural test production was not coming back, but I got the results back as follows:



So it looks like the clomid and nolva didn't just return my test levels to their normal state, but actually elevated them far above! I was testing at ~450 ng/dl before I started the cycle!

Plus I did this recent bloodwork during the evening, when test levels are lower, and the original I did in the morning.

What's weird is why the estradiol levels were so high, is this a side effect of all that test boost from the clomid and nolva?

In any case I started hitting some aromasin and I've been feeling loads better, back to normal now. Still miss being on cycle but im fine with how I feel now.

Overall feeling great about my recovery, definitely have gained a lot more confidence that I know what I'm doing and can go through a full cycle and pct succesfully now that i've felt out what the body needs.