First Cycle (Test E + LGD + MK 677) 4 Weeks in Lethargic and TIRED!

[czechboy]

So running my first ever actual gear cycle, I have started it off at 300 mgs a week of Test E. The plan is to go to 400 or 500 at Week 6 if need be until the end of Week 12.
LGD is 5 mgs split 2x daily. And MK is 25 mgs split 2x daily.

As of right now I feel only a little bit more fullness and pumps but nothing else, no ridiculous size gains, no ridiculous strength and nothing else (if anything I started taking LGD around Week 2 and that bumped strength and roundness up a little bit.)

I am however feeling quite tired and lethargic the past week or so. I seem to wake up in between my sleep now and then, and yesterday my mother commented on how my face looked really red (we video called and she saw me after about a week or two?).
Training has been a little tough as well since I feel so tired and gassed in general, I don't feel anything like what a Superman version of myself should be on Test. Also my cardio is pretty freaking trash but that could be because I hate it and try to avoid it a lot (been doing it every training session since a week or two before cycle though.)
Diet is 70% clean and the rest I indulge in things like cereal or cookies basically cheat carbs, here and there I might go out for a burger once a week or so.

Now my first thoughts on further reading up are that maybe my Haemoglobin and/or Haematocrit levels are a bit high. I could either straight away go for a blood donation tomorrow/day after because I haven't donated in like freaking YEARS now. I used to a lot and quite frequently just somehow haven't in the past few years. I have also been on 5-6 LGD cycles in the past 2 years and never donated blood in between (though always took bloods), I am unsure if LGD might also have ended up building these two up in the past year or so and I never checked on it.

1) Any idea on what I could be facing?
2) Should I donate blood immediately to get that out of the way? Or should I get my bloods done first before donating?

My doc has already written me out a blood test form I was saving it for Week 6 or mid cycle to figure out how I am doing and if I should be changing anything mid cycle at that point. Also the blood test requisition form does NOT have Estradiol mentioned on it, should I get that checked as well?

 

[Morefyah]

So running my first ever actual gear cycle, I have started it off at 300 mgs a week of Test E. The plan is to go to 400 or 500 at Week 6 if need be until the end of Week 12.
LGD is 5 mgs split 2x daily. And MK is 25 mgs split 2x daily.

As of right now I feel only a little bit more fullness and pumps but nothing else, no ridiculous size gains, no ridiculous strength and nothing else (if anything I started taking LGD around Week 2 and that bumped strength and roundness up a little bit.)

I am however feeling quite tired and lethargic the past week or so. I seem to wake up in between my sleep now and then, and yesterday my mother commented on how my face looked really red (we video called and she saw me after about a week or two?).
Training has been a little tough as well since I feel so tired and gassed in general, I don't feel anything like what a Superman version of myself should be on Test. Also my cardio is pretty freaking trash but that could be because I hate it and try to avoid it a lot (been doing it every training session since a week or two before cycle though.)
Diet is 70% clean and the rest I indulge in things like cereal or cookies basically cheat carbs, here and there I might go out for a burger once a week or so.

Now my first thoughts on further reading up are that maybe my Haemoglobin and/or Haematocrit levels are a bit high. I could either straight away go for a blood donation tomorrow/day after because I haven't donated in like freaking YEARS now. I used to a lot and quite frequently just somehow haven't in the past few years. I have also been on 5-6 LGD cycles in the past 2 years and never donated blood in between (though always took bloods), I am unsure if LGD might also have ended up building these two up in the past year or so and I never checked on it.

1) Any idea on what I could be facing?
2) Should I donate blood immediately to get that out of the way? Or should I get my bloods done first before donating?

My doc has already written me out a blood test form I was saving it for Week 6 or mid cycle to figure out how I am doing and if I should be changing anything mid cycle at that point. Also the blood test requisition form does NOT have Estradiol mentioned on it, should I get that checked as well?

Here’s an idea drop the shitty research grade sarms that your using.
I mean right now!! Wait a week and enjoy the rest of your cycle.

 

[czechboy]

Here’s an idea drop the shitty research grade sarms that your using.
I mean right now!! Wait a week and enjoy the rest of your cycle.

Thing is I have used the same source of the same SARMs the 5-6 times before that I have mentioned above with great results.
Plus they are making the body react as expected viz. Insane hunger + bloat because of MK, and some strength increase and good pumps with LGD.

I have at one point my life previously felt extremely lethargic and tired similarly, but that was my very first LGD + MK cycle exact same dosages, but that was at the end of Week 6 or so and that too it was because, I assume, I had no test in me since the Sarms suppressed me at that point.

I think I might drop the LGD soon now though considering the Test should start kicking in real soon.
I don't want to stop EVERYTHING (drop LGD + MK + donate blood) because that way I don't know what's causing the issue at this point.

 

[czechboy]

Edit : Wanted to mention the past 3 or so days I have also been noticing a slight increase in noticeable sweat while going to sleep at night. Now I am in Ca and temperatures are fluctuating almost on a daily basis here but still unsure if I should completely disregard this.

 

[Robfromga]

Drop the sarms .

 

[MisterSuperGod]

So running my first ever actual gear cycle, I have started it off at 300 mgs a week of Test E. The plan is to go to 400 or 500 at Week 6 if need be until the end of Week 12.
LGD is 5 mgs split 2x daily. And MK is 25 mgs split 2x daily.

Tapering up (or down, for that matter) is going to cause unsteady blood levels. Pick one dosage and stick with it for the duration. You didn't mention an AI either. Which that too may need a bump, if you're juggling dosage numbers with your Test.

As of right now I feel only a little bit more fullness and pumps but nothing else, no ridiculous size gains, no ridiculous strength and nothing else (if anything I started taking LGD around Week 2 and that bumped strength and roundness up a little bit.)

Test E takes time. i don't notice shit till at least week 4. Even then it's nothing to really write home about.

I am however feeling quite tired and lethargic the past week or so. I seem to wake up in between my sleep now and then, and yesterday my mother commented on how my face looked really red (we video called and she saw me after about a week or two?).
Training has been a little tough as well since I feel so tired and gassed in general, I don't feel anything like what a Superman version of myself should be on Test. Also my cardio is pretty freaking trash but that could be because I hate it and try to avoid it a lot (been doing it every training session since a week or two before cycle though.)
Diet is 70% clean and the rest I indulge in things like cereal or cookies basically cheat carbs, here and there I might go out for a burger once a week or so.

Your blood pressure could be elevated. That would explain the red face and the broken sleep patterns. Your estrogen could be high too, which could be making you feel lethargic. Couldn't hurt to donate a pint of blood, either.

Now my first thoughts on further reading up are that maybe my Haemoglobin and/or Haematocrit levels are a bit high. I could either straight away go for a blood donation tomorrow/day after because I haven't donated in like freaking YEARS now. I used to a lot and quite frequently just somehow haven't in the past few years. I have also been on 5-6 LGD cycles in the past 2 years and never donated blood in between (though always took bloods), I am unsure if LGD might also have ended up building these two up in the past year or so and I never checked on it.

1) Any idea on what I could be facing?
2) Should I donate blood immediately to get that out of the way? Or should I get my bloods done first before donating?

My doc has already written me out a blood test form I was saving it for Week 6 or mid cycle to figure out how I am doing and if I should be changing anything mid cycle at that point. Also the blood test requisition form does NOT have Estradiol mentioned on it, should I get that checked as well?

i agree with the others. Drop the sarms. If you don't feel any different, get the blood work done and yes, have estrogen checked too.

Donate either way. Even if your hemoglobin is in range, it won't hurt you and you'd be doing a good deed in the process.

 

[czechboy]

Bump with an update!

So just wanted to update with some changes I have made as of now. I am NOT taking either of the SARMs right now. The MK has been stopped since last Sunday, and the LGD has been stopped two days ago.

Just came back from training Strength seems to be increasing at the same rate.

I want to mention that my nipples have also been slightly more sensitive than normal. I feel these the most almost immediately after training. Not something very noticeable otherwise though.

I also want to mention that I have NOT been taking any AIs on cycle yet. The lethargy hasn't gone down noticeably it's just random days up and down.

After a week of stopping both LGD and MK I will start taking an AI every 2-3.5 days. I have both nolva as well as Aromasin no hand, I guess Aromasin would be better since it's an actual AI and it's not just the nipple sensitivity/gyno symptoms that I am scared about, it's the feeling of lethargy and tiredness that I am trying to fix per se.

Besides that I guess it's important to note that I don't have a very high appetite, I do feel hungry enough to eat 1-2 meals a day but anything more than that is pretty forced.

If anyone has any more light to shed let me know.

I can go for bloods in Week 5 (starting this Monday) but the only major issue I have is my doc hasn't signed me off for E2 which is exactly what I need to figure out where it is as of right now.

EDIT : Should ALSO probably mention, libido isn't very high either and neither are the ejaculate loads as big as I normally have them.

 

[GianT_SlayeR]

Too much AI can kill your libido and make you lethargic as well. What’re your doses?

 

[czechboy]

Too much AI can kill your libido and make you lethargic as well. What’re your doses?

Test E at only 300 mgs a week, dropped all the other SARMs for now.
I feel it ever so slightly but noticeable kicking in now, tomorrow, Monday will be the start of W5 for me on my first cycle.

Haven't used AI on this cycle yet, took 12.5 mg Aromasin TODAY. Now I am contemplating whether I should keep it at 12.5 mg E3.5D basically almost instantly after my shots or if I should go 6.25 EOD.

I have always had higher E2, even when natty (I know because I took bloods before my first ever Sarm cycle) I would have 55 ish when the healthy range for a male is anywhere from 15-30. Never had any significant E2 symptoms though.

It's only on this cycle now that I feel I have been feeling less libido, less energy and lethargic and such so I assume the E2 is way higher now.

 

[GianT_SlayeR]

Best bet is to pull bloods. Otherwise you’re stuck with guess and check, downside to that is things don’t always improve overnight so your stuck waiting to see if things get better or worse. Maybe someone else will chime in on your symptoms and better help you troubleshoot your lethargy.

 

[czechboy]

Midway of Week 5 of a currently VERY disappointing and annoying first cycle.

Started with Test E only at 300 mgs for the first 4 weeks. Have felt barely little to anything yet, bumped up to 400 for now in W5, will up at W6, 7 or 8 to 500 depending on how I feel like it at that point.

Will be going for bloods asap, anywhere from this Friday to Monday.

I ran some LGD and MK from W2 to W4 because I have run them in the past with fantastic results and the Test E just doesn't seem to be kicking in at all.

The source is VERY highly reputable and established, still UGL gear though. I'm in CA so can't get my own bloods done, have to go through my doc about it.

Problems :-

• No gains in size yet.
  
  
• Just about barely above natty levels of strength progress. I would increase a rep or two from the previous week anyways and now it's maybe 1-3 so no significant crazy progress.
  
  
• Nipples have been kinda sensitive lately which means E2 is acting up, hadn't taken AI on cycle until 4 days ago, have done 12.5 mg Aromasin once 4 days ago and once today. Will see how it goes with 12.5mg E3.5D
  
  
• Lethargy straight through the roof in the past week or so. Like I fucking hate getting out of bed and I sort of drag myself everywhere nowadays. Little motivation to get to the gym as well and that fucking sucks considering I had insanely good results while running just LGD and MK previously.
  

Any positives?

Meh. Barely any. I haven't lost all pumps in the gym yet, so I know the body still has some amount of Test in it, but apparently it isn't high enough to get any gains from the training nor the nutrition. The pumps aren't crazy at all. Have had mindblowing results and pumps in the past using LGD alone.



How long does Test E take to actually kick in and start showing strength and size results?

How much Aromasin should one be taking for a 400 mg cycle and how frequently?

 

[grey]

No gains in size yet.

How much did your daily intake change pre-cycle to during cycle?

How long does Test E take to actually kick in and start showing strength and size results?

Won't at all if you didn't make significant dietary shifts for the cycle. Test is NOT an acute acting drug in the way you seem to think it is and it won't do jack crap but give you sides without being fed large amounts of energy and protein.

 

[czechboy]

Firstly thanks for helping out.

My diet/appetite was very high in the initial two weeks I started pinning because of the greater motivation of expected gains.
My appetite has only decreased in the past 2 weeks or so because of the lack of anything substantial.

Weight Progress
W1 - 83kg
W2 - 85kg
W3 -
W4 - 86.6kg

Bear in mind that initially from W1-W3 I was on 25 mgs of MK 677 so that would have added some water weight as well, but as you can see my bodyweight has been gradually increasing, meaning there is a slight caloric surplus.

I have hit about 90 kg even on LGD alone previously though, so this isn't anything mindblowing for me yet. I have also had 16.5 inch arms previously, and even now my arms are only 16.1, despite perhaps being stronger than before, so the size hasn't even reached previous peak levels yet.

I don't force feed myself but I don't starve myself either. I also make sure that most of my meals are quite heavily packed with protein, mostly at the expense of veggies (always been an ecto, never had a massive appetite).

All of that said, I highly doubt it's just my lack of appetite that is making such a dramatic difference(or the lack thereof). There are multiple studies referenced where people have put on crazy amounts of muscle while losing fat WITHOUT training. I highly doubt that people that weren't even motivated to train did jack squat about their diets.

Here's a link to one of them, but Bhasin has done more on Test on trained and untrained men and their results.
https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/ajpendo.2001.281.6.e1172

 

[grey]

There are multiple studies referenced where people have put on crazy amounts of muscle while losing fat WITHOUT training.

The VAST majority of those studies are on sarcopenics or have significant fat reserves to draw energy from.

You aren't remotely like those being studied here.


There is no energy in Test. You either feed it food, have large amounts of fat to steal from, or it doesn't work.

If you are training and aren't satisfied with 1-2kg of body weight gain per week, you can eat more or resign yourself to the the fact that you are expecting literal magic here.

No one is exempt from the laws of thermo dynamics sir.

Building muscle requires energy, it doesn't just come from nowhere.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

Are you really complaining about gaining 2+ lbs/week!?
Unless your diet consists of Big Mac's and skittles, your rate of weight gain is nothing to scoff at.

i think your expectations for a few hundred milligrams of Test might be a tad bit high.

 

[GianT_SlayeR]

You stated above you eat 1-2 meals a day..... there’s your biggest problem, start force feeding. 2nd Test e takes two weeks before you start noticing a thing, your expecting way too much too soon. 3rd 300mg a wk?! Double ur dose triple your food and get your head in the game.

 

[czechboy]

Guys... You are all just looking at the numbers on the scale...

1) I have been at this weight before, my body weight fluctuates between 83-86 kg ESPECIALLY when coming on or off MK. The most probable cause for an immediate increase especially in W1/2 was the MK water bloat. Have had fluctuations of up to 5 kg previously when using MK.

2) As I have stated before my body has carried a lot more muscle on just SARMs as well. If I were indeed getting bigger and stronger, would I not EASILY get back the same mass on the same body parts that I had previously already attained that size on? Muscle memory would have helped me pick that up immediately when gaining lean mass.

That said, you guys are right I could probably try force feeding myself more.

The plan now is to try and eat every 3 hours and just keep the protein up, will keep logging my food on MFP. The reduced appetite and lethargy definitely doesn't help with the loss of appetite. And upon further reading it seems higher Estrogen definitely lowers appetite, so there is more reason to keep E2 in check for me. Going to try and get bloods done asap.

 

[MisterSuperGod]

It's pretty simple then. Either your gear is bunk or your diet/training routine sucks. You said your source was reputable. Scratch the bunk Test. What's left?

 

[czechboy]

So a massive update here :-

I started taking 12.5mg Aromasin E3.5D shortly after these posts if not immediately after. The nipple sensitivity and more importantly the GOD AWFUL lethargy both subsided. Currently I am planning to run either 12.5 E3D or 6.25 EOD.

I had in the weeks of the above posts started making just ever so slight consistent strength gains but nothing miraculous. I ended up injuring my lower back with a combination of rock climbing (jumping around like a maniac is not a good idea at 90 kg, especially not out of the blue) and Deadlifts a day later.

Had to stay out of the gym the entire week of 19-26th. Felt no loss of size or anything, in fact if anything I felt that my stomach started getting ever so slightly leaner (still is).

This Sunday and today, Tuesday I hit the gym for some pump work and to get the blood flowing, avoiding lower back movements. Got a good pump on Sunday, but today, dear god. The pump on my biceps was REEEEEEEE-DICULOUS. Like there was so much fucking blood pumped in I couldn't flex my elbow anymore mid set.

Might do some drop sets to failure training for about 15 rep sets until I can start incorporating the lower back into my training again.

Trying to pound in some calories after getting all my protein in, my appetite is a major issue in general. I have been off the MK and LGD since one of the initial posts (W3 or 4?). If everything seems fine by this coming Sunday, I will add in 25 mgs of MK in again. This increases my appetite plus the water weight and bloat helps with some extra strength and pumps.

Also got my bloods today :-

This one didn't pop up for some reason :-

The HDL and LDL do NOT seem the best from my understanding but everything else seems great. (My HDL, LDL values have actually improved from the last time I was using SARMs).
The E2 is within range because I had popped a 12.5 mg Aromasin 2 days before that test, I was feeling like shit prior to it, if it was not for that Aromasin I might have had an off the charts number.

Take a look if you guys are interested and lemme know your thoughts.

 

[czechboy]

So in about Week 10 or so of my first ever cycle. My last post I had JUST started to have a great time with the Test E kicking in with pumps and such.

Well the last few weeks have been shit, I injured my back while rock climbing and then subsequently doing Deadlifts the very next day (why? Would it have killed me to hold off on heavy deadlifts by a fucking week. Sometimes the lack of rationality at the immediate moment irritates me.) As soon as I recovered from the lower back injury (skipped 2 days of training that week, started doing 15 rep pump work) , I fell ill with the flu. Full week of training lost again.

Just started my first week and 3rd training day recovering from all the BS.

No significant size gains on my first ever cycle yet, kind of disappointing considering I have had AMAZING results from only 3 weeks of LGD on my very first SARM cycles. (Did 5 in total, completely exhausted LGD though.)

Is it at all possible that I have reached all potential gains that 400 mgs of Test E could be giving me, especially since I have run LGD 5 times prior and maxxed out results on them?

I am going to hold off one more week on the current 400 mg of Test E and then probably bump up to 500 mgs + 5-10 mgs of LGD daily as well.

The only thing I am a little confused about is whether LGD and Test E compete for the exact same androgen receptors or not. Gotta do some more reading on the same.

Also need to get me a weight gainer, that's the easiest way to get in a LOT of calories early in the day for me, my appettite not being hte best is also a little annoying on this cycle.

Did get all bloods done like 3 weeks ago and all values are in range, Test E was 2000ng and Free T was high as well.