First Post Here - Super High E2, Low T, hypogonad - only 26 (M)!

[Matty]

Hi everyone. I've been a lingering poster for a while. Have had help from pmgamer on the STTM site with regard to so many sex hormone questions I have. Please excuse the length of this email but I like the detail.

About 5 months ago I finally figured out why my health felt like the pits, pulling the following poor cortisol and thyroid results:

Cortisol:

7:00 - 8:00 AM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 13-24nM
11:00 - Noon was 2 (Depressed) - Ref. 5-10nM
04:00 - 05:00PM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 3-8nM
11;00 - Midnight was <1 (Depressed) - Ref. 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden was 5 - Ref. 23-42
DHEA is 5 (Normal) - Ref. Adults was 3-10ng/ml

Thyroid:

fTSH - 311 (High) - Ref. Borderline Low: 20-25 nIu/ml / Normal: 26-85 nIU/ml / Borderline High: 86-120 nIU/ml
fT4 - 0.20 (Normal) - Ref. Normal: 0.17-0.42 ng/dl
fT3 - 0.34 (Normal) - Ref. Borderline Low: 0.21-0.27 pg/ml / Normal: 0.28-1.10 pg/ml
TPO (Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SIgA) - Positive - Ref. Normal: Negative

5 months later I have the adrenals and thyroid in check (with HC and dessicated thyroid).

** However my sex hormones are a mess. Keep in mind these are basic saliva tests I have done for these:

February, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 27 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 22 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

June, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 28 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 23 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

For my sex hormones, I basically went on all natural while I addressed my adrenals and thyroid, to see if I could make a dent. I always knew that knowing sex hormones was almost like it's own beast. Now I'm in the nitty gritty of it, but still trying to paint a clear picture and path to wellness. Anyways, from about April to June I was taking PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM, zinc, & magnesium in maximum dosages (up to three pills of DIM a day at one point). During this time, the DIM had a great impact on my sex drive. I was gaining awesome erections - in fact only until about three weeks ago this was the case - and then I went back to normal. I have since stopped these items to see if my drive comes back and will try to adjust DIM dosage.

Of course, the saliva panel above shows no changes. I'm fine with that because I know saliva isn't the best for sex hormone testing. Yesterday I asked that my doctor write me up for the following (blood) testing (taken from TRT: recipe for success):

• Total Testosterone
• Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA “Free and Loosely Bound”)
• Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
• SHBG
• DHT
• Estradiol (specify “ultrasensitive” assay for males)
• LH
• FSH
• Prolactin
• Cortisol
• Thyroid Panel
• CBC
• Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
• Lipid Profile
• PSA (if over 40)
• IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered)

Again pmgamer has helped me so much to understand what a lot of these things mean, and also providing me many useful links to documentation explaining what could be the case with me. Clearly I have a very high E2 for a 26 year old male. Clearly all of my hormones seem to be messed up - perhaps indicating secondary across the board. But my doctor did pull my LH, FSH, and Prolactin previously and according to him (over the phone, thus no ranges), they all fell within normal still although LH and FSH may have been on the lower side.

Now reading all of these notes about the havoc E2 can wreak on the hormonal balance in general, I need a course of action with regard to my estrogen. My adrenals and thryoid are being supported, so I'm not worried about them right now. But I need to figure out more about what's going on here...

I guess everything hinges on what my blood E2/T levels show. If the DIM is in fact driving this down, then I assume I could try HCG alone to see if my T will go up.

Thoughts? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

THANKS EVERYONE!

 

[MacDonnell]

Hi everyone. I've been a lingering poster for a while. Have had help from pmgamer on the STTM site with regard to so many sex hormone questions I have. Please excuse the length of this email but I like the detail.

About 5 months ago I finally figured out why my health felt like the pits, pulling the following poor cortisol and thyroid results:

Cortisol:

7:00 - 8:00 AM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 13-24nM
11:00 - Noon was 2 (Depressed) - Ref. 5-10nM
04:00 - 05:00PM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 3-8nM
11;00 - Midnight was <1 (Depressed) - Ref. 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden was 5 - Ref. 23-42
DHEA is 5 (Normal) - Ref. Adults was 3-10ng/ml

Thyroid:

fTSH - 311 (High) - Ref. Borderline Low: 20-25 nIu/ml / Normal: 26-85 nIU/ml / Borderline High: 86-120 nIU/ml
fT4 - 0.20 (Normal) - Ref. Normal: 0.17-0.42 ng/dl
fT3 - 0.34 (Normal) - Ref. Borderline Low: 0.21-0.27 pg/ml / Normal: 0.28-1.10 pg/ml
TPO (Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SIgA) - Positive - Ref. Normal: Negative

5 months later I have the adrenals and thyroid in check (with HC and dessicated thyroid).

** However my sex hormones are a mess. Keep in mind these are basic saliva tests I have done for these:

February, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 27 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 22 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

June, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 28 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 23 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

For my sex hormones, I basically went on all natural while I addressed my adrenals and thyroid, to see if I could make a dent. I always knew that knowing sex hormones was almost like it's own beast. Now I'm in the nitty gritty of it, but still trying to paint a clear picture and path to wellness. Anyways, from about April to June I was taking PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM, zinc, & magnesium in maximum dosages (up to three pills of DIM a day at one point). During this time, the DIM had a great impact on my sex drive. I was gaining awesome erections - in fact only until about three weeks ago this was the case - and then I went back to normal. I have since stopped these items to see if my drive comes back and will try to adjust DIM dosage.

Of course, the saliva panel above shows no changes. I'm fine with that because I know saliva isn't the best for sex hormone testing. Yesterday I asked that my doctor write me up for the following (blood) testing (taken from TRT: recipe for success):

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA Free and Loosely Bound)
Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
SHBG
DHT
Estradiol (specify ultrasensitive assay for males)
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile
PSA (if over 40)
IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered)

Again pmgamer has helped me so much to understand what a lot of these things mean, and also providing me many useful links to documentation explaining what could be the case with me. Clearly I have a very high E2 for a 26 year old male. Clearly all of my hormones seem to be messed up - perhaps indicating secondary across the board. But my doctor did pull my LH, FSH, and Prolactin previously and according to him (over the phone, thus no ranges), they all fell within normal still although LH and FSH may have been on the lower side.

Now reading all of these notes about the havoc E2 can wreak on the hormonal balance in general, I need a course of action with regard to my estrogen. My adrenals and thryoid are being supported, so I'm not worried about them right now. But I need to figure out more about what's going on here...

I guess everything hinges on what my blood E2/T levels show. If the DIM is in fact driving this down, then I assume I could try HCG alone to see if my T will go up.

Thoughts? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

THANKS EVERYONE!

Hey Matty! Welcome to the board man. Glad you have taken care of your adrenal and thyroid issues. Sometimes that is all that is needed to bring your T levels up to snuff again. In your case, however, this appears unlikely. Your June E2 levels were quite high, while your TT levels were incredibly low. Have you thought about a course of Arimidex for a while? What about TRT and Arimidex. It is doubtful that HCG alone will get your TT up in the range where you'd like it. Also, your E2 is already so high, HCG alone would probably just drive it up higher. If you choose T supplementation, use shots instead of gels - The gels can really drive up your E2 as well. Sorry this board is so slow right now. I think it's the "summertime" thing.

 

[Matty]

Hey Matty! Welcome to the board man. Glad you have taken care of your adrenal and thyroid issues. Sometimes that is all that is needed to bring your T levels up to snuff again. In your case, however, this appears unlikely. Your June E2 levels were quite high, while your TT levels were incredibly low. Have you thought about a course of Arimidex for a while? What about TRT and Arimidex. It is doubtful that HCG alone will get your TT up in the range where you'd like it. Also, your E2 is already so high, HCG alone would probably just drive it up higher. If you choose T supplementation, use shots instead of gels - The gels can really drive up your E2 as well. Sorry this board is so slow right now. I think it's the "summertime" thing.

Thanks Mac! Much appreciate the reply.

I have actually had Androgel waiting for me at the pharmacy for a while but two things are stopping me from taking it. 1.) That I know I need to address my high E2 first (or at least know proper values through blood test) and 2.) I don't want to affect my fertility any more. Being 26 and just having gotten married, I suppose you know where I'm coming from. The wife wants kids asap, and I know I don't want to make a decision that hurts my long term ability to have kids.

I guess that's where I'm stuck as well. I'd be more than happy to do TRT + HCG if I knew my E2 was down and that my fertility would still be normal.

I have no problems taking something like Arimidex! I'm pretty sure the DIM is doing something around the same affect. But again, need that blood test. If my E2 isn't down, Arimidex it is.

I'm starting to thinking there's a real possibility that I am secondary (hypopit). I just don't see my T levels going anywhere even if I did lower E2 (where I may or may not be now after a few months of DIM - I know it's a metabolizer but I am feeling sexual energy in my body I never felt before).

What do you think Mac?

 

[MacDonnell]

Thanks Mac! Much appreciate the reply.

I have actually had Androgel waiting for me at the pharmacy for a while but two things are stopping me from taking it. 1.) That I know I need to address my high E2 first (or at least know proper values through blood test) and 2.) I don't want to affect my fertility any more. Being 26 and just having gotten married, I suppose you know where I'm coming from. The wife wants kids asap, and I know I don't want to make a decision that hurts my long term ability to have kids.

I guess that's where I'm stuck as well. I'd be more than happy to do TRT + HCG if I knew my E2 was down and that my fertility would still be normal.

I have no problems taking something like Arimidex! I'm pretty sure the DIM is doing something around the same affect. But again, need that blood test. If my E2 isn't down, Arimidex it is.

I'm starting to thinking there's a real possibility that I am secondary (hypopit). I just don't see my T levels going anywhere even if I did lower E2 (where I may or may not be now after a few months of DIM - I know it's a metabolizer but I am feeling sexual energy in my body I never felt before).

What do you think Mac?

Matty,

I think you have a good head on your shoulders. Don't worry too much about the fertility thing. I believe HCG helps with that. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.) With your numbers, I'm amazed you can even THINK about having kids. Do you have to take Viagra/Levitra/Cialis to even get it up? For a 26 yr. old guy, these numbers are just not right. You'll be able to get it under control, though. Don't worry about it. Good thing the wife is understanding. Do the bloodwork, and then, like you said, if your E2 is still sky high, try some A'dex. Good luck, man. Have a great weekend.

Mac

 

[JanSz]

Hi everyone. I've been a lingering poster for a while. Have had help from pmgamer on the STTM site with regard to so many sex hormone questions I have. Please excuse the length of this email but I like the detail.

About 5 months ago I finally figured out why my health felt like the pits, pulling the following poor cortisol and thyroid results:

Cortisol:

7:00 - 8:00 AM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 13-24nM
11:00 - Noon was 2 (Depressed) - Ref. 5-10nM
04:00 - 05:00PM was 1 (Depressed) - Ref. 3-8nM
11;00 - Midnight was <1 (Depressed) - Ref. 1-4nM

Cortisol Burden was 5 - Ref. 23-42
DHEA is 5 (Normal) - Ref. Adults was 3-10ng/ml

Thyroid:

fTSH - 311 (High) - Ref. Borderline Low: 20-25 nIu/ml / Normal: 26-85 nIU/ml / Borderline High: 86-120 nIU/ml
fT4 - 0.20 (Normal) - Ref. Normal: 0.17-0.42 ng/dl
fT3 - 0.34 (Normal) - Ref. Borderline Low: 0.21-0.27 pg/ml / Normal: 0.28-1.10 pg/ml
TPO (Thyroid Microsomal Ab, SIgA) - Positive - Ref. Normal: Negative

5 months later I have the adrenals and thyroid in check (with HC and dessicated thyroid).

** However my sex hormones are a mess. Keep in mind these are basic saliva tests I have done for these:

February, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 27 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 22 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

June, 2007:

E2 (Estradiol) - 5 - Ref. Male (20-49 yrs): 1-3 pg/ml Male (50-85 yrs): 1-5pg/ml
P1 (Progesterone) - 28 - Ref: Male (adult): 5-95 pg/ml
TTF (Free Testosterone) - 23 - Ref. Male (20-30 yrs): 60-110pg/ml

For my sex hormones, I basically went on all natural while I addressed my adrenals and thyroid, to see if I could make a dent. I always knew that knowing sex hormones was almost like it's own beast. Now I'm in the nitty gritty of it, but still trying to paint a clear picture and path to wellness. Anyways, from about April to June I was taking PhytoPharmica Indolplex with DIM, zinc, & magnesium in maximum dosages (up to three pills of DIM a day at one point). During this time, the DIM had a great impact on my sex drive. I was gaining awesome erections - in fact only until about three weeks ago this was the case - and then I went back to normal. I have since stopped these items to see if my drive comes back and will try to adjust DIM dosage.

Of course, the saliva panel above shows no changes. I'm fine with that because I know saliva isn't the best for sex hormone testing. Yesterday I asked that my doctor write me up for the following (blood) testing (taken from TRT: recipe for success):

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone (AKA Free and Loosely Bound)
Free Testosterone (if Bioavailable T is unavailable)
SHBG
DHT
Estradiol (specify ultrasensitive assay for males)
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile
PSA (if over 40)
IGF-1 (if HGH therapy is being considered)

Again pmgamer has helped me so much to understand what a lot of these things mean, and also providing me many useful links to documentation explaining what could be the case with me. Clearly I have a very high E2 for a 26 year old male. Clearly all of my hormones seem to be messed up - perhaps indicating secondary across the board. But my doctor did pull my LH, FSH, and Prolactin previously and according to him (over the phone, thus no ranges), they all fell within normal still although LH and FSH may have been on the lower side.

Now reading all of these notes about the havoc E2 can wreak on the hormonal balance in general, I need a course of action with regard to my estrogen. My adrenals and thryoid are being supported, so I'm not worried about them right now. But I need to figure out more about what's going on here...

I guess everything hinges on what my blood E2/T levels show. If the DIM is in fact driving this down, then I assume I could try HCG alone to see if my T will go up.

Thoughts? Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

THANKS EVERYONE!

Do blood test at Quest Diagnostics.
If you are taking any medication or supplementss keep using them but be consistent with your schedule for at least 6 weeks befor blood draw and thereafter.

You can find list for the tests that I do myself once a year, on my thread here, end of the thread.

https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

 

[Matty]

Thanks you two!

Jan unfortunately I don't live in the US (Canada), so I can't go through Quest.

I have asked for the tests as listed above. If I'm high on E2 still, I'm asking for Arimidex. And judging on the results, hopefully can determine primary vs. secondary. Otherwise I'm just going to try HCG first.

I found this site for diagnosing hypogonad in men:

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

However it isn't clear enough to me re: secondary and what to look for. I believe my doctor has done prolactin, LH, and FSH before and all - while normal - were low normal if I remember correctly. Which wasn't cause for pituitary alarm at the time I take it. What is my argument if those same results come back? I hear if LH and FSH are both low normal, it could be pituitary.

Then MRI??

 

[JanSz]

Thanks you two!

Jan unfortunately I don't live in the US (Canada), so I can't go through Quest.

I have asked for the tests as listed above. If I'm high on E2 still, I'm asking for Arimidex. And judging on the results, hopefully can determine primary vs. secondary. Otherwise I'm just going to try HCG first.

I found this site for diagnosing hypogonad in men:

http://www.natural-hrt.com/andropause04.html

However it isn't clear enough to me re: secondary and what to look for. I believe my doctor has done prolactin, LH, and FSH before and all - while normal - were low normal if I remember correctly. Which wasn't cause for pituitary alarm at the time I take it. What is my argument if those same results come back? I hear if LH and FSH are both low normal, it could be pituitary.

Then MRI??

Hop over the border.

For Megazoid:

http://www.questdiagnostics.com/brand/business/b_bus_lab_presence.html
United Kingdom
Quest Diagnostics began trading in the UK in 1996 and has its major UK laboratory in West London. This state-of-the-art, purpose built laboratory is open seven days a week and undertakes both diagnostic and clinical trials testing. More >

 

[masterpp]

welcome to the board dude-im another young poster-21

the guys on this board are always willing to help

best of luck

 

[Matty]

Thanks everyone for the great support!

I received updated blood lab results today. I could use additional feedback on this (although is looks like with my LH and FSH, I will need an MRI):

DHEA-S - 1.7 (Low) - Range 7.6 - 17.4, Units umol/L

Thyrotropin (Sensitive TSH) - 0.05 (Low) - Range 0.35 - 5.00, Units MIU/L
Free Triiodothyronine (FT3) - 6.3 (High) - Range 3.5 - 6.5, Units PMOL/L
Free Thyroxine (FT4) - 17 - Range 9-23, Units PMOL/L

Estradiol 17 Beta - 113 - Range UP TO 206, Units pmol/L
Bioavailable Testosterone - 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol/L
Lutropin (LH) - 3 - Range 2-6, Units IU/L
Follitropin (FSH) - 2 - Range 2-8, Units IU/L
Prolactin - 9 - Range 1-8, Units UG/L
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L

I believe the DIM has dropped my blood E2

Thoughts oh so appreciated!

 

[Matt Muscle]

Your low DHEAS-S is a concern, plus your Prolactin might be a problem, I'm not aware just how high this needs to be for it be causing problems with testosterone production.

 

[JanSz]

Thanks everyone for the great support!

I received updated blood lab results today. I could use additional feedback on this (although is looks like with my LH and FSH, I will need an MRI):

DHEA-S - 1.7 (Low) - Range 7.6 - 17.4, Units umol/L

Thyrotropin (Sensitive TSH) - 0.05 (Low) - Range 0.35 - 5.00, Units MIU/L
Free Triiodothyronine (FT3) - 6.3 (High) - Range 3.5 - 6.5, Units PMOL/L
Free Thyroxine (FT4) - 17 - Range 9-23, Units PMOL/L

Estradiol 17 Beta - 113 - Range UP TO 206, Units pmol/L
Bioavailable Testosterone - 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol/L
Lutropin (LH) - 3 - Range 2-6, Units IU/L
Follitropin (FSH) - 2 - Range 2-8, Units IU/L
Prolactin - 9 - Range 1-8, Units UG/L
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L

I believe the DIM has dropped my blood E2…

Thoughts oh so appreciated!

Low DHEA, get compounded pregnenolone cream 100mg.1gram, get 1 gram/day.

Do not worry about estrodial, not yet.
But get liquidex, so you have it when you may need it.

LiquiDex - Anastrozole 30ml @ 1mg/ml

also

LiquiCia 30ml @ 25mg/ml

Get your Total Testosterone higher.
At first use 250iu/day hcg
if that does not help, as it probably will not,
#1, try to lower your SHBG
use chrysin compounded cream
or use LEF
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00615.html
Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00975.html
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin®

#2
get Depo-testosterone
shbg=48
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html
post #41
you need
TotakT~1200
to get there you need
post #40

175mg/week depo-testosterone
you also need hcg to support your testis,
so keep youy HCG as before.


Prolactin - 9 - Range 1-8, Units UG/L
You have everything.
High prolactin
#1 fluid leaking from nipples

#2 bad ed and refraction time after ejaculation.

Use Dostinex,


Dostinex 30ml @ 0.25mg/ML
================
==================

You have many problems,
look for more using my list for blood testing, post #44

https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

 

[Matty]

Hey Jan thanks for all the recommendations. Greatly appreciated.

I should note that I made one typo in my last blood results. My prolactin came back 9 and the range is actually 1-18 (not 1-8). So my prolactin is right in the middle of the range.

Thanks again for the recommended products. I will look into each and every one of them.

 

[JanSz]

Hey Jan thanks for all the recommendations. Greatly appreciated.

I should note that I made one typo in my last blood results. My prolactin came back 9 and the range is actually 1-18 (not 1-8). So my prolactin is right in the middle of the range.

Thanks again for the recommended products. I will look into each and every one of them.

Prolactin,
not as high priority as before, but you are not out of the woods.
Dr Shippen likes it at 3
LEF less than 5
but it is not a priority.

 

[Matty]

Hey folks,

An update to this thread. I am of the belief that my high E2 is causing my endocrine picture to become sluggish and skewed. I am targeting this right now because I can't deal with the lack of sex drive. I got some recent tests off of HC/Thyroid for 10 days (go figure the ENDO didn't test Estradiol since last time):

Testosterone - 26 (HI) - Range 7.3-23.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone - 54.1 - Range 31.0-94.0 PMOL/L
Bioavailable Testosterone - 7.9 - Range 3.0-16.0 nmol/L (this was 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol/ last time!!)

Thyrotropin (Sensitive TSH) - 4.34 - Range .035-5.00 MIU/L
Free Triiodothyronine - 4.7 - Range 3.5-6.5 PMOL/L
T3 - 1.5 - Range 1.2-2.8 NMOL/L
T4 - 16 - Range 9-23 PMOL/L

Cortisol AM - 547 - Range 170-720

And from a previous test:

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L

---

So correct me if I'm wrong but I have the Testosterone... it's just not available right? I have advised my doctor that I think high E2 is binding up all of my T but he hasn't gotten back to me regarding my request for Arimidex. In the meantime I have ordered Liquidex online. Does this sound like the right first step to everyone? Trying to cut out fatty foods, drinking, and smoking.

I'm wondering if I take this Liquidex, if I can expect my free/bioavailable T to go up, and my E2/SHBG to go down.

My body is so fatty!

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes Mat if your do the arimidex even not knowing what your E2 is if your high you will have wood back in less then 2 weeks this will tell you you were high. Getting this wood means your at the best level for your body it's a dam good gauge. I night time and morning wood I am talking about Hardasnails calls it the wood from hell it wakes you up and you can't pee until it goes down. When this happens your Free T can come up near the top of the range still when it dose it will take some time for your body to undo all the damage done by being low. It is a slow process but you will see it a little at a ttime. I have given you this link before I am not sure though so here it is.
Medibolics
This link applies don't care what your age is.
Effects of Aromatase Inhibition in Elderly Men with Low or Borderline-Low Serum Testosterone Levels -- Leder et al. 89 (3): 1174 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism
A must read by anyone.
Male Hormone Modulation Therapy.. HGH replacement, Testosterone Replacement
http://www.smart-drugs.com/ias-estrogen.htm
So when you get this wood your not on TRT so be careful you don't bring your E2 down to low. Keep an eye on your wood every morning if it stops your going down to low so stop the Arimidex until it comes back then that day go back on it but do less. Not being on TRT if you bring your E2 down to low it will take longer to come back up so the longer your to low the longer your set back.

 

[Matty]

Thanks PM! You're the best...

I wish I would have been off the DIM before doing that E2 blood test above. I was on it and doing better sexually, but then it tailed off - not because I went too low... because it never came back. My diet, drinking, smoking went to crap and I believe my E2 was uncontrollable with DIM.

I think the Liquidex will make a big difference for me. And once I notice that difference, lifestyle changes will come with it... I need this kick start though.

My only concern is that my SHBG is high as well. I believe E2 and SHBG are related, so perhaps it will come down (although in one of those studies you provided, no differnce was noted). Still I have to think if I use the Liquidex to bring down my E2 (which I know is damn high), followed by lifestyle changes, my SHBG will go down too.

Also the HC has driven my DHEA super low. I'm not worried about this now because my T is still ok and it would be turning into E anyways. But when I get on the Liquidex, I may introduce small amounts of DHEA.

Regarding Liquidex, do you take it orally then? I have read that you do, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that you can take it through injection as well. I would prefer orally, but then I'm also reading that it is more potent than Arimidex. Somewhat concerned on dosing. I would like to do .5MG equivalent. Ag-Guys says 30ml @ 1mg/ml. So would I just draw .5 cc then per dose? And how often - twice a week? Does it matter which days?

Thanks for all of the help as always - I really hope this stuff makes it across the border and in my hands soon.

 

[Matty]

Ahhhh:

"(2) Increasing the body's production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG binds testosterone therefore reducing the amount of the clinical important free testosterone in the blood available to cell receptor sites."

So I should be able to get this down once I get E2 down...

 

[pmgamer18]

Yes as E2 comes down so does SHBG. Start with .25 mgs of the Arimidex and take it in some juice 3 times a week. Your not on TRT and if you take a higher dose you can go down so fast your will mess the wood.

Ahhhh:

"(2) Increasing the body's production of sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). SHBG binds testosterone therefore reducing the amount of the clinical important free testosterone in the blood available to cell receptor sites."

So I should be able to get this down once I get E2 down...

 

[JanSz]

Hey folks,

An update to this thread. I am of the belief that my high E2 is causing my endocrine picture to become sluggish and skewed. I am targeting this right now because I can't deal with the lack of sex drive. I got some recent tests off of HC/Thyroid for 10 days (go figure the ENDO didn't test Estradiol since last time):

Testosterone - 26 (HI) - Range 7.3-23.5 nmol/L
Free Testosterone - 54.1 - Range 31.0-94.0 PMOL/L
Bioavailable Testosterone - 7.9 - Range 3.0-16.0 nmol/L (this was 4.7 - Range 3.0 - 16.0, Units nmol/ last time!!)

Thyrotropin (Sensitive TSH) - 4.34 - Range .035-5.00 MIU/L
Free Triiodothyronine - 4.7 - Range 3.5-6.5 PMOL/L
T3 - 1.5 - Range 1.2-2.8 NMOL/L
T4 - 16 - Range 9-23 PMOL/L

Cortisol AM - 547 - Range 170-720

And from a previous test:

Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) - 48 - Range 13-73, Units NMOL/L

---

So correct me if I'm wrong but I have the Testosterone... it's just not available right? I have advised my doctor that I think high E2 is binding up all of my T but he hasn't gotten back to me regarding my request for Arimidex. In the meantime I have ordered Liquidex online. Does this sound like the right first step to everyone? Trying to cut out fatty foods, drinking, and smoking.

I'm wondering if I take this Liquidex, if I can expect my free/bioavailable T to go up, and my E2/SHBG to go down.

My body is so fatty!

FreeT3=4.7(3.5-6.5)
(6.5-4.7)/(6.5-3.5)=0.6 you are missing 60% of FreeT3 Get 3-4 grains of Armour, retest

TotalTestosterobe=26nmol/L=750ng/dL
SHBG=48nmol/L
that is very high SHBG work to get it down
use
Super MiraForte with Maximum Strength Chrysin
120 capsules
Item Catalog Number: 615
Super Miraforte With Max Strength Chrysin, 120 Caps
and
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula with 5-Loxin
60 softgels
Item Catalog Number: 975
Advanced Natural Prostate Formula With 5-Loxin, 60 Softgels

You have decent total Testosterone if it is natural.
If you have natural only testosterone then work on SHBG to get it down to around 20.
If that is on suplemental testosterone then your dose is a way not big enough.

Your E2 staus is not known, totally guessed, you have to do test to know where you are.
Generally, as long as you have high SHBG you will need more E2.
You could test it better if you could get FreeE2 from Quest.
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)


Other than E2 there is tonns of other estrogens that you need to know about.

See the tests I do, posts#44 and #63
https://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

 

[plymouth city]

Thanks PM! You're the best...

I wish I would have been off the DIM before doing that E2 blood test above. I was on it and doing better sexually, but then it tailed off - not because I went too low... because it never came back. My diet, drinking, smoking went to crap and I believe my E2 was uncontrollable with DIM.

Just to let you know

Alcohol is a potent estrogen and cortisol stimulator.

Alcohol directly increases aromatase action within the body while simultaneously decreasing testosterone.

Alcohol decreases Leydig cell response from LH and decreases leydig cell sensitivity. Alcohol can and does lead to primary hypogonadism. In fact, its probably one of if not the leading cause of undiagnosed primary hypogonadism. I would easily assume that most heavy drinkers with 10 years heavy use are already have some action of early primary going on. Even younger guys, college age, who binge drink have all the tell tale sings of high E(round faces, fatty faces, fatty gut/love handles, greasy skin/hair, difficulty sleeping/concentrating). I would say that, IMO, alcohol is the most potent anti testosterone drug that is legal today.

Whats actually even more hilarious is that nicotine(cigarettes) has almost the exact opposite action of alcohol. Its a potent anti estrogen. It decreases aromatase in a similar action that arimidex works(it is not a SERM) and actually boosts testosterone. This is why it is common to see alot of smokers who are thinner than your average person, due to favorable T and E resonse. But of course, smoking is otherwise horrible for your body and causes cancer.

I suggest you get on a nicotine replacement protocol, like the patch. Not only will it exert AI and T boosting properties, but it will weane you off sucking on a cancer stick all day. Study after study shows they are more effective than quitting cold turkey. I have my assumptions that one of the reasons why people have a hard time quitting smoking cold turkey is because of the rise in E that occurs almost immediately from quitting.

As for alcohol, well, you know what it does, and your cutting your own throat if you continue to drink.