For those of you who don't want to to run more than TRT testosterone levels, how do you cycle?

[jtmarlin]

I have been on TRT for year and years and settled at 100mg per week. I have low SHBG and convert really high to free. For example on 140mg my last levels were 700 total and 29 free t. If I go higher than 100 my BP creeps up. Now from a feelz and libido perspective I am COMPLETELY HAPPY at 100mg per week. I can even maintain my size on it. Just curious for those of you that have cemented yourself at a max testosterone dose, what do you do if you want to cycle without raising the T? I have thought about a number of things and what would work for me at least and I keep ending up back at anavar on top of it but this just sucks bc you have to take a lot of anavar to get anywhere and that is going to destroy my HDL. I can handle dianabol pretty well at 15-25mg per day but the BP will also creep up. I thought about the old Todd lee masteron route but for some crazy reason I have tried this drug 3x and get anxiety out the ass every time I use it and I don't know why. Can't use primo unless I also use high test or use dianabol bc my E2 will be guttered. Same with EQ. The only way to use primo for me would be to use 15mg of dianabol + 100mg test + 200mg of primo and I don't want to take dianabol for 10 weeks or more.

The other game I thought of was using NPP at 200-400mg per week. Has anyone done this NPP game on top of 100mg of test per week and had good results? Any other ideas? I am also unwilling to inject UGL estradiol to make primo work.

 

[OldGHGuy]

How do you respond to Deca? Perhaps a lower dose, longer haul approach such as 100 Test, 200 Deca and 200 Primo for 12-14 weeks.

 

[jtmarlin]

How do you respond to Deca? Perhaps a lower dose, longer haul approach such as 100 Test, 200 Deca and 200 Primo for 12-14 weeks.

Its by far my favorite for effectiveness but I have had some sexual issues with it. Thay being said I have only run it with higher amounts of test.

 

[OldGHGuy]

Its by far my favorite for effectiveness but I have had some sexual issues with it. Thay being said I have only run it with higher amounts of test.

At lower dosages it just makes me "last longer" but being in my mid-50's it does hit my BP hard so I dont run it anymore. This cycle would still give you 500 total with E2 control, joint help and hopefully still a good performance. Just a thought

 

[Earlybyrdy]

I just started 200 test, 100 NPP, 150 Mast. Curious to see what happens

 

[Badsanta]

At lower dosages it just makes me "last longer" but being in my mid-50's it does hit my BP hard so I dont run it anymore. This cycle would still give you 500 total with E2 control, joint help and hopefully still a good performance. Just a thought

What do you run in place of Deca? I can think of plenty replacements but they all come with their own effects. Does NPP cause the same BP issues?

 

[IndividualMan]

What do you run in place of Deca? I can think of plenty replacements but they all come with their own effects. Does NPP cause the same BP issues?

mostly, yes. it is the same compound, it just allows you to drop it sooner if you experience issues

 

[buck]

Test and test/primo are all i have run for years

 

[Alert_Custard]

Primo and HCG as needed to get the extra estrogen

 

[OldGHGuy]

What do you run in place of Deca? I can think of plenty replacements but they all come with their own effects. Does NPP cause the same BP issues?

Nothing I have ever run anything replaces Deca for strength and size (I have some NPP but never ran it figuring it will have the same sides albeit shorter lived). I have never run Tren. So, to answer tour question, I just go without at my age or if I want to grab a boost I am a very good responder to Anavar.

 

[archive]

Injectible e2 is also an option to reach a baseline e2 so that primo/EQ can be run independent of your test

 

[Throwback]

Injectible e2 is also an option to reach a baseline e2 so that primo/EQ can be run independent of your test

Tell us more about e2 as an added compound.
The reason i ask is a research paper that collated the data from like 19 research papers done on cattle.
It compared size gains in cattle using test , test tren and test tren estradiol in cattle. (University of Minnesota) The gains using Tes,Tre,Estr, were crazy almost 40% more muscle/meat.
All cattle started at a Baseline of say 600lbs in the same amount of time the base group with nothing but food went to 925lbs....the test only to 1050, the test tren to 1140 but test tren estradiol almost 1280lbs.
I posted this info maybe 5 or 6 years ago. First time ive heard of what you suggest.
Any research?

 

[ProgestegenicWarrior88]

I have been on TRT for year and years and settled at 100mg per week. I have low SHBG and convert really high to free. For example on 140mg my last levels were 700 total and 29 free t. If I go higher than 100 my BP creeps up. Now from a feelz and libido perspective I am COMPLETELY HAPPY at 100mg per week. I can even maintain my size on it. Just curious for those of you that have cemented yourself at a max testosterone dose, what do you do if you want to cycle without raising the T? I have thought about a number of things and what would work for me at least and I keep ending up back at anavar on top of it but this just sucks bc you have to take a lot of anavar to get anywhere and that is going to destroy my HDL. I can handle dianabol pretty well at 15-25mg per day but the BP will also creep up. I thought about the old Todd lee masteron route but for some crazy reason I have tried this drug 3x and get anxiety out the ass every time I use it and I don't know why. Can't use primo unless I also use high test or use dianabol bc my E2 will be guttered. Same with EQ. The only way to use primo for me would be to use 15mg of dianabol + 100mg test + 200mg of primo and I don't want to take dianabol for 10 weeks or more.

The other game I thought of was using NPP at 200-400mg per week. Has anyone done this NPP game on top of 100mg of test per week and had good results? Any other ideas? I am also unwilling to inject UGL estradiol to make primo work.

Tren and pulsing orals.

 

[jtmarlin]

Test and test/primo are all i have run for years

I have always been disappointed with this combo. I am also highly sensitive to primo from an e2 perspective so I have to run a lot of test to keep my e2 in range. I specifically don't want to use more than 100mg of test so this won't work for me. Nandrolone has by far been the best steroid I have ever used in terms of muscle gains.

The experiment I think will ultimately be

20mg Var daily, 100mg of test pw, 200-400 npp per week

 

[buck]

I have always been disappointed with this combo. I am also highly sensitive to primo from an e2 perspective so I have to run a lot of test to keep my e2 in range. I specifically don't want to use more than 100mg of test so this won't work for me. Nandrolone has by far been the best steroid I have ever used in terms of muscle gains.

The experiment I think will ultimately be

20mg Var daily, 100mg of test pw, 200-400 npp per week

I have grown well off of all steroids i have used. Mostly dose dependent fo me. Now that i am old the only sides i am willing to deal with are from test and primo.
I have always avoided orals as i found better options with injectables that tend to put less stress on internal organs.

 

[johnjay06]

Yeah now that I’m older I’m very mild with mine. I usually just up my trt dose to 200 from 100 for a bit. I think I’m gonna run 150mg test and 100mg deca for a while and see what happens.

 

[jtmarlin]

I have grown well off of all steroids i have used. Mostly dose dependent fo me. Now that i am old the only sides i am willing to deal with are from test and primo.
I have always avoided orals as i found better options with injectables that tend to put less stress on internal organs.

The problem that I have with primo isn't with the compound itself but what it does alongside test... and that is that it crushes my e2 and shoots my free t thru the roof. Both of these things I want to avoid. I just had BPH surgery and want to avoid excesses of both E2 and DHT in the long run. It also doesn't seem to work as well as just the test would... for example I think I get better on 400mg of test vs 400mg of test + 200mg of primo probably bc the E2 remains higher on test alone and there is something more anabolic about that than just having the extra primo mgs and reduced E2.

 

[Zmitmex]

100mg/week seems low to me for TRT. Dave Lee talks about optimizing your dose (IE finding the top dose that doesn’t produce side effects). But he and the guy over at Cortex labs have said some guys need as high as 300mg/wk (rare but many in the 250mg/wk range) to get the same as some guys get from 150-200mg. Not saying 100mg isn’t the right call but I’ve been working on getting my dose right with Dave’s help and I’ve settled into 250mg/wk to resolve symptoms (not cycle).

Muscle is packing on finally (life long strength athlete and shit gains to show for it). More so than that though is that my mental health is back and I feel healthier than ever. I would like to try replacement levels of HGH but haven’t gotten there.

All that to say I would keep everything the same and play with the test dosage. Dave’s made the point that if you’ve optimized your TRT dose you won’t really be craving more androgens in any form since you’re at the edges of what your body can productively use without disrupting other systems (that was in his interview with Dave Tate from EliteFTS if you’re curious to watch).

 

[buck]

The problem that I have with primo isn't with the compound itself but what it does alongside test... and that is that it crushes my e2 and shoots my free t thru the roof. Both of these things I want to avoid. I just had BPH surgery and want to avoid excesses of both E2 and DHT in the long run. It also doesn't seem to work as well as just the test would... for example I think I get better on 400mg of test vs 400mg of test + 200mg of primo probably bc the E2 remains higher on test alone and there is something more anabolic about that than just having the extra primo mgs and reduced E2.

I understood understood your apprehension with primo on your first reply.