Fortitude training and DC training thoughts

[TobiramaSenju]

I'm not really sure where to share this.

I have been doing FT and DC for close to a year now. Although I have not made drastic changes in size, I have made drastic improvements in body composition, strength and overall muscular density.

This is more or less a log of what I do and to also share my thoughts on these two training programs. I don't go back and forth on the two. At first I did DC training for a total of 24 weeks, and fortitude training for approximately another 24. And now I am going to go back into DC training since I have gotten even stronger so now I have to reduce the frequency and to also reduce my exercise selection in comparison to FT.

Thoughts:
At first when I made the switch, I thought that FT was an "evolved" version of DC training but it's more of like a distant cousin and upon closer inspection, the two training programs might share some similarities but ultimately differ in training principles.

DC focuses on heavy progressive weights, multi rep rest pause, extreme stretching, cardio, blast and cruise. Meanwhile the FT program's principles can be narrowed down to frequency, variety, and periodization.

Both training programs definitely focus on progressive overload. But there are more "variables" with FT that you can manipulate to achieve that overload, whereas DC training is much more straightforward (keep adding weight or reps). An analogy I can think of is FT works like a very sharp scalpel, while DC is a hammer.

I'm going to continue to share my thoughts on FT and DC as time goes on and share my progress with DC as well. If you guys have any questions or valuable inputs when it comes to these two programs please don't hesitate to share.

 

[Tren91]

Scott Stevenson trained many years DC style with David Henry and fortitude is inspired by DC.Both routines are verry effective for muscle growth.Did you used scot stevenson FT diet protocol with the routine and dc style diet with DC routine?

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Scott Stevenson trained many years DC style with David Henry and fortitude is inspired by DC.Both routines are verry effective for muscle growth.Did you used scot stevenson FT diet protocol with the routine and dc style diet with DC routine?

Yes I highly agree with you. Both are very effective. This is more of an observation from me and a random collection of thoughts. Big similarities between the two. Anyone that has trained for an extended period of time with both programs can definitely see that FT is highly influenced by DC. Scott was also one of the few approved DC trainers for a long time.

Yes I did loosely follow both dietary recommendations. They are quite effective when it comes to building size and strength while minimizing fat gain.

This isn't a criticism of the two programs. More of like a journal or a log. I enjoy both programs very much. Reason why I made the switch is just because I wanted to reduce my frequency of body parts trained and I just enjoy DC overall.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

In addition, I currently do the DC 2-way split which can be found anywhere online.

When I did FT, I mostly stuck to the lowest volume tier but I manipulated certain variables to achieve progressive overload i.e. slightly increasing volume or frequency for a body part. The possibilities are endless when it comes to progressing with FT.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

An idea I'm playing around with:

MODIFIED DC 3-WAY SPLIT:

WEEK 1:

MONDAY: 1A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness
Optional Calves and/or quads/hamstrings if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets. Up to you.

TUESDAY: 1B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Tris

THURSDAY: 1C LEGS
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

FRIDAY: 2A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness
Optional Chest/shoulder/tri whichever is a lagging body part done for pump or cluster sets

WEEK 2:

MONDAY: 2B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Triceps
Optional Biceps and/or back if weak. Pump or cluster sets.

TUESDAY: 2C LEGS
calves
Hams
Quads

THURSDAY: 3A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness

FRIDAY: 3B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Tris
Optional Calves and/or quads/hamstrings if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets. Up to you.

WEEK 3:

MONDAY: 3C LEGS
Calves
Hamstring
Quads
Optional Chest/shoulder/triceps if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets.

TUESDAY: 4A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness


THURSDAY: 4B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Triceps

FRIDAY: 4C LEGS
Calves
Hams
Quads
Optional Biceps and/or back if weak. Pump or cluster sets.

As you can see this is quite similar to the 3 way DC split and resembles a push/pull/legs split with the exception of having the option of hammering a weak, well rested body part on Monday and/or Friday. This will allow you to hammer body parts twice within a 7 day period. No optional body parts are done on Tuesdays and Thursdays as those days are designed to be trained hard and heavy.

Optional body parts done on mondays and Fridays are done either cluster sets style and/or pump set style where you just basically drive blood and get a huge pump into that muscle. Everything else is done with either an all-out straight set, or all-out rest pause style.

Exercise selection is a big part in this template, and some thought is required on your part in choosing which exercises to bring up certain body parts.

Also each body part split has 4 separate workouts instead of 3, in comparison to DC, where 3 separate workouts are rotated for the whole body. Reason being is for consistency in your exercise selection and it perfectly fits into a 3 week block. So now you can blast for 6-9 weeks with either 2 to 3 opportunities to set PR's in the exercises that you have chosen.

I do not recommend this for anyone who has not trained with DC or fortitude for at least 3 training cycles.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks for reading.

 

[Tren91]

An idea I'm playing around with:

MODIFIED DC 3-WAY SPLIT:

WEEK 1:

MONDAY: 1A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness
Optional Calves and/or quads/hamstrings if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets. Up to you.

TUESDAY: 1B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Tris

THURSDAY: 1C LEGS
Calves
Hamstrings
Quads

FRIDAY: 2A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness
Optional Chest/shoulder/tri whichever is a lagging body part done for pump or cluster sets

WEEK 2:

MONDAY: 2B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Triceps
Optional Biceps and/or back if weak. Pump or cluster sets.

TUESDAY: 2C LEGS
calves
Hams
Quads

THURSDAY: 3A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness

FRIDAY: 3B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Tris
Optional Calves and/or quads/hamstrings if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets. Up to you.

WEEK 3:

MONDAY: 3C LEGS
Calves
Hamstring
Quads
Optional Chest/shoulder/triceps if weak body part done for pump or cluster sets.

TUESDAY: 4A PULL
Biceps
Forearms
Back width
Back thickness


THURSDAY: 4B PUSH
Chest
Shoulder
Triceps

FRIDAY: 4C LEGS
Calves
Hams
Quads
Optional Biceps and/or back if weak. Pump or cluster sets.

As you can see this is quite similar to the 3 way DC split and resembles a push/pull/legs split with the exception of having the option of hammering a weak, well rested body part on Monday and/or Friday. This will allow you to hammer body parts twice within a 7 day period. No optional body parts are done on Tuesdays and Thursdays as those days are designed to be trained hard and heavy.

Optional body parts done on mondays and Fridays are done either cluster sets style and/or pump set style where you just basically drive blood and get a huge pump into that muscle. Everything else is done with either an all-out straight set, or all-out rest pause style.

Exercise selection is a big part in this template, and some thought is required on your part in choosing which exercises to bring up certain body parts.

Also each body part split has 4 separate workouts instead of 3, in comparison to DC, where 3 separate workouts are rotated for the whole body. Reason being is for consistency in your exercise selection and it perfectly fits into a 3 week block. So now you can blast for 6-9 weeks with either 2 to 3 opportunities to set PR's in the exercises that you have chosen.

I do not recommend this for anyone who has not trained with DC or fortitude for at least 3 training cycles.

Let me know what you guys think. Thanks for reading.

Looks goods bro.I would space out 1st and 2nd workout with one rest day between them,same thing with 3rd and 4th of second week.I also like to include atleast 2 days with direct ab work.

 

[Test_Subject]

I've had some pretty good luck with DC training.

I don't run the program anymore because of wear and tear, but I've incorporated the rep-pause scheme into my arm workouts because they work better than anything else I've tried.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Looks goods bro.I would space out 1st and 2nd workout with one rest day between them,same thing with 3rd and 4th of second week.I also like to include atleast 2 days with direct ab work.

Thank you for the feedback brother. The reason why I wrote it like this was to hit every major muscle group twice every 7 days. One would definitely have to watch their fatigue closely with this template. I imagine someone would use this only if they are not capable of putting forth the intensity required to make gains in the OG DC 2-way split.

Also exercise selection would be key as doing rack pulls on back thickness day and then doing squats on leg day would be a recipe for injury.

And yes ab work. How'd I miss that one.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

I've had some pretty good luck with DC training.

I don't run the program anymore because of wear and tear, but I've incorporated the rep-pause scheme into my arm workouts because they work better than anything else I've tried.

Damn sorry to hear that. DC is an awesome program.

Have you tried fortitude training yet? One of the major advantages of that program is making gains while avoiding injuries. It focuses on progressive overload, while minimizing fatigue and overuse injuries.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Today's workout:
2 way split:

Week 3:

Workout 1A:
Decline bench
Smith incline slingshot close grip bench
Power tec neutral grip machine press
Wide grip rack pullups
Incline DB chest supported row

Thoughts:
Made gains from previous workout. Program is definitely just as fun as I remember it and that's important. If you're not enjoying you're training you're not doing it right. I'm on my 3rd week of the 1st blast and I can tell that I am hungrier than I remember. Using caffeine and pre workout is not working for me anymore. Any recommendations?

 

[TobiramaSenju]

WORKOUT 2A:
Cable preacher curls 1x20-30RP
KB reverse grip drag curls: 1x20-30SS
Smith standing calf raise: 1x15SS
Squat: 1x10
Squat Widowmaker: 1x20
Cable hamstring curls: 1x20-30RP

Front loaded squats. What I've noticed from front loading other muscle groups before quads is that my form is always compromised by the time I get to heavy squats and that doesn't "feel right" to me. Especially the weights are getting heavier and heavier I'd rather train bigger muscle groups first before smaller ones. Maybe once my squats begins to stall then I would simply lower the weight, move my reps up, and front load smaller muscle groups, but for now, for safety reasons I will be training squats before any leg muscle besides calves.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Workout 2A
Slight decline DB bench: 30RP
Seated Smith wide grip press: 20RP
Slingshot Close grip bench: 25RP
BB rows: 14SS/down set 20SS
Angled lat pulldowns: 30RP

The first two weeks of this blast my reps were lower than what I usually like. So for these workouts I kept the same weight and really pushed to increase the reps. Alot of my strength progress came from just eating alot of food but also just doing very easy cardio to stave off fat gain.

For the close grip bench I ended up going for 4 rest pauses and I would like to start experimenting with that for at least 1 barbell exercise on my upper body days. Or doing a max rep set with a heavy weight, then a rest pause down set which I have done before on the 5/3/1 rest pause template. The reason for this is not to necessarily raise the volume, but to lift heavy progressive weights for lots of reps. Also for barbell lifts it's risky to go to all out failure which Dante does recommend. I'd rather find a way to increase reps and time under tension safely rather than risking injuries.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Today's training:

WEEK 4: WORKOUT 2B
Standing strict cable curls: 1xRP
Spider fat grip hammer curls: 1x straight set
Seated calf raise: 1 set muscle rounds 6x4
Olympic style squat: 1x10
Smith squat Widowmaker: 1x20
Romanian deadlift: 1x15
Straight leg deadlift: 1x20

I decided to do muscle rounds for my calf training today. Good for increasing volume and time under tension.

Today's training went surprisingly well considering I trained very early and fasted.
I also decided to do a down set of sldls with a lighter weight just because.

 

[Delt123]

Following!

been doing FT for 8 weeks now (done it prior too) with great succes! The corona is messing with my whole program tho.

I see you are a bit torn between both programs and I must say I’m in the same boat. The strength gains I made from a short DC blast were phenomenal! I just miss some frequency with it while I miss the heavy slag iron.

what are your stats?

 

[TobiramaSenju]

I’m the same way. FT offers the frequency while DC offers the heavy weights. I’ve decided to stick with DC for now. Did FT for about a year or so and I gained a very lean 10 lbs which isn’t impressive by any means. My stats aren’t that impressive as well. This is why I switched to DC. Because I think FT is for older lifters that have accrued a lot of strength but also a lot of wear and tear. Meanwhile I consider myself an intermediate lifter. And I really want to drive my strength up as well. Which is why I went back to DC. Not that you couldn’t raise strength with FT.

EDIT: Oh when I was doing FT I was on transdermal TRT. But I switched it up. Now I’m currently doing 300mgs of test and 300 mgs of Deca.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Wednesday’s training:

Incline bench: 1x Max reps at heavy weight/ 1xRP at a lighter weight
Weighted dips: 1xRP
Wide grip upright row: 1xRP
Close grip rack pull-ups: 1xRP
T bar rows: 1x12/1x8

For Wednesday’s training the only thing I did different was doing a heavy 6-8 reps and then following it up with a lighter rest pause set. No particular reason. I just wanted to do it.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

Friday’s training:

Cable close grip chin-ups: 1xRP (pause for 3 seconds halfway)
Fat grip hammer curls: 1xSS
Front squat: 1x10
Olympic squat widowmaker: 1x20
DB Romanian deadlift: 1x20
Standing machine calf raise: 6x4

I decided to change the order of the exercises for legs. Whenever I start with the smaller muscle groups, it feels unsafe to train squats very heavy cause my form is compromised at that point. But I do understand why Dante recommends that way.

Week 5:

Monday’s training:
Decline Bench: 1x8/1x10-8-5
Incline slingshot close grip bench: 1x13-6-4+1 8-second negative
Neutral grip seated machine press: 1x13-6-3
(3x 8-second negative pulses at the end of every set)
Rack pull-ups: 1x13-6-4
DB incline row: 1x15/1x15

Did 2 sets of 15 for back thickness. I believe in heavy high reps when it comes to back. Also did 1 heavy “power” set for decline bench then did my back off set for normal rest pause training.

Been eyeing Layne Norton’s PHAT. What are your guys’ thoughts on that? I think the volume on it is a little high. It’s made for natural lifters but I don’t see how a natural lifter can recover from such a high volume program.

 

[TobiramaSenju]

The only well equipped gym I could train at has finally succumbed to the COVID pandemic. I have some equipment at home but nowhere near capable of running a DC training program.

What I have decided to do is to instead, go back into fortitude training. It makes sense from multiple angles. The different set types are what really matter along with progressive overload. Which I can definitely do with the equipment that I have at home.

Although I am a little bummed out about not being able to lift heavy barbell weights, I am going to use this opportunity to get creative with my exercise selection and to how progressively overload my body. My goals are the same. Gain strength and muscle mass while minimizing fat gain.

More to follow on training.

 

[Tren91]

The only well equipped gym I could train at has finally succumbed to the COVID pandemic. I have some equipment at home but nowhere near capable of running a DC training program.

What I have decided to do is to instead, go back into fortitude training. It makes sense from multiple angles. The different set types are what really matter along with progressive overload. Which I can definitely do with the equipment that I have at home.

Although I am a little bummed out about not being able to lift heavy barbell weights, I am going to use this opportunity to get creative with my exercise selection and to how progressively overload my body. My goals are the same. Gain strength and muscle mass while minimizing fat gain.

More to follow on training.

I found doing higher rep verry beneficial for my physique also safer injury wise.The main benefit i know from listening to our god Dr. Scott Stevenson is the pump sets are fatiguing mainly the skeleton muscle mass and not so much the central nervous system (which requires a lot more recovery than muscle).This way you can train more frequent.Maybe you can also try blood flow restriction training,have you tried that before?

 

[TobiramaSenju]

I found doing higher rep verry beneficial for my physique also safer injury wise.The main benefit i know from listening to our god Dr. Scott Stevenson is the pump sets are fatiguing mainly the skeleton muscle mass and not so much the central nervous system (which requires a lot more recovery than muscle).This way you can train more frequent.Maybe you can also try blood flow restriction training,have you tried that before?

I figured that wearing knee, elbow and wrist wraps can “mimic” the effects. Also continued tension on the targeted muscle almost has the same effects. And yes although pump sets minimize CNS fatigue, when you approach close to failure you’re still gonna experience some CNS fatigue. Im gonna start fucking around with a lot 5’s in the hole.