Fourth cycle: Test and Primo

[midlifegains]

Hi all. Thanks for the community here. Very useful.

Following bloods next week I'll be heading into my fourth cycle. Three previous cycles have been test e. One with turo for 4 weeks.

I'm thinking test e / primo 500:600 pw for 10 weeks. as a strong combo for lean gains and appropriate for an intermediate 4th cycle. Maybe turo for first 2 weeks to kick things off

Keen for advice and also on best pin schedule. 150t:170p every 2 days? I'd happily do the test e twice a week but not sure how to align that with primo.

My PCT/Blood thread is here if it's of interest. Post third cycle bloods. Low e2, prolactin

==STATS==

39
6'0
83 kg
13% BF

==GOALS FOR NEXT CYCLE==

• Lean gains
• Continued increased strength.
• Reduce / maintain body fat.

==CYCLES==

First cycle - 8 weeks in April / May.
Test Pyramid 125 -> 375mg 1/w
HGH 3 IU / d am first thing
4 weeks
Clomiphen 50mg

Second Cycle - 8 weeks c/ 17/7/23
4 weeks
30mg turo am
500mg test pw
10mg Cardarine

4 weeks
500mg test pw
10mg Cardarine

Third Cycle - 8 weeks Dec / Jan
8 weeks
500 mg test p/w
10 mg cardarine

10 weeks off


==BODY COMP==

Weight: (Jan 23 - Now)
According to withings.
83kg
Muscle +11.5 kg
Fat: -5.5kg

Dexa bf%:
9/8/22 25.1%
13/10/23 15.0%

Weight, Fat, Muscle





==Physical Progress==

2024 - Now



2024 - Feb




2023 - October




2023 - July



2023 - April





==STRENGTH GAINS==

Solid gains in last year.
Squat + 120%
Row + 120%
Lat Pull + 80%
Bench + 80%
Shoulders +70%
Bicep curl +80%
Triceps +70%

==DIET==

I'll post updates but my diet is very good. Was thinking to target 3000 cals + exercise on cycle. Similar to previous cycles.

7am. 6eggs,2 bananas,200g greek yoghurt
10am. 400g fresh fruit (berries, melon, mango, papaya, similar)
1pm. Fresh seafood or chicken or meat with fresh vegetables and salad
6pm. Fresh seafood or chicken or meat with fresh vegetables and salad
120g protein powder/bar total throughout day.

==SLEEP==

8 hours.

==EXERCISE==
Gym 5 days / w
Swim/Bicycle 1 day.

 

[easterbunny]

If you‘ve never used Primo before, start with half the amount of Test you’re taking to asses how Primo impacts your E2 levels.

So start with 150mg Test and 75mg Primo E2D.

 

[midlifegains]

sounds sensible, thank you

 

[Psychokoak]

Honestly I find that 10 weeks is really short. You would gain more by going beyond for this 4th cycle.

 

[jdubzzz44]

Honestly I find that 10 weeks is really short. You would gain more by going beyond for this 4th cycle.

Agreed

 

[Eddie.]

Yes, 10 weeks i find it a little too soon since first 4 weeks approx you haven't peaked yet. If you don't know how to respond to primo you must start with 2/1 test/primo and check e2 after a month to see how it's going. I need 2/1 and i aromatize quite easy, so keep that in mind.

Diet wise, i think it's not a diet that will send you further, especially with almost a gram of gear. Have you calculated your macros? How much protein carbs and fats is this? Calories by itself doesn't mean much, but what is your maintenance? I think your diet structure could be way better.

 

[midlifegains]

On my last cycle I was basically equal parts carb, protein, fats.

What should I be targeting, calories and macros, for a lean bulk?

 

[jdubzzz44]

1-1.5 x lbs for protein
I like to keep fats to minimum 20-40g a day and the rest of the calories you need to grow in carbs

 

[Eddie.]

On my last cycle I was basically equal parts carb, protein, fats.

What should I be targeting, calories and macros, for a lean bulk?

1-1.5 x lbs for protein
I like to keep fats to minimum 20-40g a day and the rest of the calories you need to grow in carbs

I would agree more with that option than the OP's plan, although 1gr per pound for maintenance or bulk is more than enough. Keep fats low, you're having around 30-35gr of fats only in your breakfast. Eggs are super healthy but 2 are sufficient enough to get the benefits. I'm 235 pounds and eat 50-55gr of fat. Then fill the rest with carbs.

 

[midlifegains]

1-1.5 x lbs for protein
I like to keep fats to minimum 20-40g a day and the rest of the calories you need to grow in carbs

I would agree more with that option than the OP's plan, although 1gr per pound for maintenance or bulk is more than enough. Keep fats low, you're having around 30-35gr of fats only in your breakfast. Eggs are super healthy but 2 are sufficient enough to get the benefits. I'm 235 pounds and eat 50-55gr of fat. Then fill the rest with carbs.

Ok thanks. And what calorie surplus should I aim for?

 

[Eddie.]

What's your maintenance calories? I would start with a 500 surplas for 2 weeks and reassess later. You don't wanna raise too much too soon as you said y wanna keep your bodyfat under control so 500cal seems ok.

 

[jdubzzz44]

Ok thanks. And what calorie surplus should I aim for?

What's your maintenance calories? I would start with a 500 surplas for 2 weeks and reassess later. You don't wanna raise too much too soon as you said y wanna keep your bodyfat under control so 500cal seems ok.

Slow and steady, 300-500 cal max. It’s a slow process, 1-2lb lean muscle a month, do that over a year you’d look like a completely different person, anything that comes fast is gonna go just as fast

 

[Sector]

Run it 12 weeks minimum, I'd say 14 weeks since enanthate takes a bit to kick in. It's a mild cycle, shouldn't jack up your lipids too much. Cholesterol will probably be hit the hardest I think, but not nearly ad bad as other compounds

Pinning 2x a week is fine. If the oil volume becomes a lot, 3x a week, or eod. It really doesn't matter, as long as you're doing it at minimum 2x a week to keep levels stable

 

[Davidinovg]

Ensure your diet is in check first!

Remember, gear isn't a magic fix, nutrition is key.

I notice a lack of carbs in your diet besides the two bananas and some morning fruits. Where are the rice, potatoes, oats, or other carb sources you enjoy?

 

[Trades]

Ensure your diet is in check first!

Remember, gear isn't a magic fix, nutrition is key.

I notice a lack of carbs in your diet besides the two bananas and some morning fruits. Where are the rice, potatoes, oats, or other carb sources you enjoy?

This. Guy is 4 cycles deep of who knows to look extremely natty.

Lean gainz bro

 

[midlifegains]

Thanks all.

Run it 12 weeks minimum, I'd say 14 weeks since enanthate takes a bit to kick in. It's a mild cycle, shouldn't jack up your lipids too much. Cholesterol will probably be hit the hardest I think, but not nearly ad bad as other compounds

Pinning 2x a week is fine. If the oil volume becomes a lot, 3x a week, or eod. It really doesn't matter, as long as you're doing it at minimum 2x a week to keep levels stable

Great advice. I'll start pinning twice / week.
Noted re length. I'll look into it and consider 14 weeks.
Will get bloods every four weeks and reassess.

Ensure your diet is in check first!

Remember, gear isn't a magic fix, nutrition is key.

I notice a lack of carbs in your diet besides the two bananas and some morning fruits. Where are the rice, potatoes, oats, or other carb sources you enjoy?

Maintenance is around 2500. I'll aim for 500 surplus and up the carbs.

 

[lukiss96]

Honestly you look very natural to me, I would have not guessed you use steroids. This is not to bring you down or anything, maybe just that you're afraid of eating more calories and training harder. Steroids only accelerate gains, but they won't bring big muscles with diet and training not dialed in. I would put in more effort. Just my opinion, don't get offended people.

 

[Psychokoak]

Honestly you look very natural to me, I would have not guessed you use steroids. This is not to bring you down or anything, maybe just that you're afraid of eating more calories and training harder. Steroids only accelerate gains, but they won't bring big muscles with diet and training not dialed in. I would put in more effort. Just my opinion, don't get offended people.

This is the problem with short cycles. 10 weeks for a cut why not if you are already lean. But for building muscle it's not good.

 

[RekTest]

4th cycle and your 182lbs at 6 ft, mate you need to learn to eat…
Your pics look very natty for 4 steroid cycles..

10wk cycles is horrid for test E, test e takes 6-8 weeks to fully get saturated then your growing for 2 wks.. thats why tons of people do 16 wks and even up to 20wks.

 

[midlifegains]

Thank you all for the slightly demoralising but appreciated feedback.

To be fair, a year ago I was here and sitting at just under 20% bf down from 25% a couple of months earlier.



I've clearly being putting too much focus on keeping fat off. My carbs were sitting at 25-30% during my 'bulks' though I was hitting 3000-3500 calories a day. I was hitting gym 6 days a week for 90 mins and seeing solid progress.

My second cycle was basically a write off due to poor diet and alcohol. I've had no alcohol for 6 months now and am maintaining that.

Taking all this feedback on board I'll aim for calorie surplus of 500 and a 50/20/30 c/p/f split.

I'll aim for 16 weeks pending bloods.

Thank again for the feedback.