From alcoholic to TRT and cruise (Test and Mast, Gyno, getting the most out of the least)

[Berzerker94]

Hello!

I am a 28 years old male, I've started training 2 years ago. Previously I've had super bad habits, including smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, slamming down an entire bottle of old number 7 almost every day of the week(on my "day offs" I've only did half of that) and occasionally I've used weed too. My health in general was super trash, I was 83kg with a height of 201cm and looked like a zombie.
I've kicked every bad habit after doing a heroic dose of mushroom (If you are curious I've had no bad trip, also I've had no 'enlightement' while I've was on the shrooms, simply I've had a great time, but when I woke up the next day I wasn't able to smoke, and I threw up from even the smell of the booze)
Long story short, I've suddenly developed the urge to do proactive things in life, including moving my bony body.

I've went up to 107kg in 2 years, and I'm around 15-17% bodyfat (the abs still somewhat visible)
The noob gains stopped around after a year, and since then I'm really struggling to put on weight and to get better in the gym.
I've done a blood work and it turned out that my test level is at the 400 range. I've did the best I could do in the past 2 years, and my test is still super low. I was able to feel it tho, long recovery time, constant muscle pain, despite the clean eating and doing LISS a lot I have a tendency to just store fat, I have gyno (pubertal), extremly little and weak beard and almost no body hair on my upper body (on the other hand extremely thick and dense hair on the scalp) and I have a tendency to be emotional on videos with puppies and shit like that, and I don't have the best quality erections either.
I've train 6 times a week, full body, I've dialed it in pretty well, and I eat as clean as I can (90% of my food intake is clean) and my T level is still in the gutter.
I've decided that I go on TRT.
The problem is, I live in a country where getting TRT is near impossible, so I have to go underground.
(I'm planning to do an E2/Prolactin/Progesteron bloodwork too,just to know what is my baseline)

I've read a lot on this forum, and I've come up with a plan:

1. Elevate TEST - I've ordered Test Enanthate and HCG too. I'm planning to start with 125mg/week (+60-70mg Mast) together with 3x500IU - administer both T and HCG on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I plan to do this for 6 weeks, and then get a bloodwork. Depending on that bloodwork I will dial my TRT dose accordingly (Aiming at around 800-1000 level).
After that I want to also cruise a little on 250mg/week (+125mg Mast) for 6 weeks just to see how it feels and do a bloodwork. If I feel good I want to be on this cruise level for 6 or 9 months and then come back to TRT dose. I want to do this for 2 years, to max out my potential and then only do TRT.

2. Attack gyno - I fucking hate my bitch tits, so I've ordered Raloxifene for it. I'm planning to do 20mg/day (10mg morning, 10mg evening) probably for 3 months, then taper down and see if the tits remain shrunk.
3. AI - DHT derivative - After reading a lot of bad things about AI and crashed E I've decided to go for another compund which actually can benefit me further. I wanted to go for Primo but the shop is out of stock so I've went for Masteron instead. The reason is that I think I don't have much DHT to begin with, so I'm hoping this would give me a harder look and potentially give me a more masculine look (in my face, facial hair too). I'm not really afraid of becoming bald, as no one in my ancestors were bald, but if I start to shed I will stop. Mast 2:1 to Test, and adjust according to feel/bloodwork.

Questions:

1. Do you think that Masteron or Primobolan could be an "addon" to TRT in low doses for long periods of time (or forver)?

2. Do you think that doing 250mg Test and 125mg of Mast can be done for longer periods of time (like 6 months, or 9 months) and then coming down back to TRT (half of that dose) can be safe or is it too much? I've read that many do 200-250 mg Test year round without any problems.

Thank you for reading my story.

 

[RedSwingline]

First, great job on quitting the smoking and drinking. Both are powerful addictions and both hard to quit. You probably added years to your life.

I do not consider myself enough of an authority to comment on much of your plan but what I can do is comment on what I did.

My family doctor prescribed test c to me years ago after running some blood work that showed to total t at ~200 and free t at 7. This was a long journey with many blood test to get me in the 800 - 900 range. He started me at 125mg / week and worked up to 200mg / week which keeps me in range. From what I have read, this is a rather high dosage for TRT but that is what consistently leaves me in the 800 - 900 range. For the last 6 months or so started to inject 400mg of UGL test U every 2 weeks and my doctor cannot tell from my blood levels.

I do not believe that 200mg of test per week is bad but get your blood checked regularly so you can tell. I get mine checked every 3 months but I also like to run a blast between semiannual doctor visits.

 

[animalwithin9]

Congratulations on the healthier lifestyle.
As far as Ralox, do you have gyno from puberty, AAS-use, or enlarged breasts due to your previous unhealthy habits?

 

[JackSkel]

With all the misleading posts on here about Masteron and Primo “crashing” estrogen, the new guys build it right into their first cycle.

Primo and Masteron do not “crash” estrogen. Everyone should be getting bloodwork to determine the best method for managing estrogen. For some, it’s increasing androgen to estrogen ratio. For others it’s using arimidex and for others aromasin. Others find it best to lower the testosterone dose altogether or do more frequent injections.

 

[Berzerker94]

First, great job on quitting the smoking and drinking. Both are powerful addictions and both hard to quit. You probably added years to your life.

I do not consider myself enough of an authority to comment on much of your plan but what I can do is comment on what I did.

My family doctor prescribed test c to me years ago after running some blood work that showed to total t at ~200 and free t at 7. This was a long journey with many blood test to get me in the 800 - 900 range. He started me at 125mg / week and worked up to 200mg / week which keeps me in range. From what I have read, this is a rather high dosage for TRT but that is what consistently leaves me in the 800 - 900 range. For the last 6 months or so started to inject 400mg of UGL test U every 2 weeks and my doctor cannot tell from my blood levels.

I do not believe that 200mg of test per week is bad but get your blood checked regularly so you can tell. I get mine checked every 3 months but I also like to run a blast between semiannual doctor visits.

Thank you.
I've read similar cases where 200mg or even higher dose was needed, but it's quite rare, but obviously if I need that much for a 800-900 range too then I'll use that much too.
What is your SHBG, E2 and Prolactin levels? Do you use any AI?
So you inject 400mg Test U on top of your 200mg Test C and your doctor can't tell it in your blood work? That's insane. But if your test level isn't elevated (that's the whole point, isn't it?) by that doesn't it mean that something is off? Either the Test U is bunk or you aromatise heavily?

 

[Berzerker94]

Congratulations on the healthier lifestyle.
As far as Ralox, do you have gyno from puberty, AAS-use, or enlarged breasts due to your previous unhealthy habits?

Thank you! I've never used any AAS previously.
As i've said I have pubertal gyno, it came when I was around 12-13 years old, but it was a really mild case. I'm a 100% sure that my lifestyle is what made it much worse, but it didn't happened overnight, years of abuse is what made it a quite bad case. Alcohol definitely worsened it, but I think weed is much worse in this regard, I think weed messed with both my gyno and my prostate, but the prostate symptoms always went away when I sobered up.

 

[Berzerker94]

With all the misleading posts on here about Masteron and Primo “crashing” estrogen, the new guys build it right into their first cycle.

Primo and Masteron do not “crash” estrogen. Everyone should be getting bloodwork to determine the best method for managing estrogen. For some, it’s increasing androgen to estrogen ratio. For others it’s using arimidex and for others aromasin. Others find it best to lower the testosterone dose altogether or do more frequent injections.

Thank you for your reply.
I think Masteron only masks estrogenic symptoms, while Primo (real stuff) actually lowers E2. I'm no expert, just this is what I've read.
On the other hand I've read it many times that AI's in general tend to nuke estrogen even in lower amounts (not for everyone, but for many) and are liver toxic.
As I've said I believe that I lack DHT and I actually want to be more masculine too. I've read many times that people don't feel good on Test and AI, but when they add Primo or Masteron they feel like they are like a million bucks.
I've compared the two, and that's why I choose to rather add Mast/Primo.

Without any sarcasm whatsoever:
Can you elaborate why you think Arimidex/Aromasin is a better choice than adding Masteron/Primo? Do you think an AI is healthier choice than DHT dervatives? If yes, why?

 

[RedSwingline]

Thank you.
I've read similar cases where 200mg or even higher dose was needed, but it's quite rare, but obviously if I need that much for a 800-900 range too then I'll use that much too.
What is your SHBG, E2 and Prolactin levels? Do you use any AI?
So you inject 400mg Test U on top of your 200mg Test C and your doctor can't tell it in your blood work? That's insane. But if your test level isn't elevated (that's the whole point, isn't it?) by that doesn't it mean that something is off? Either the Test U is bunk or you aromatise heavily?

I worded my explanation poorly. I have stretched out my injection interval by at first changing to the longer ester test u. Then increased the interval from weekly to every 2 weeks with a higher dose. I don’t check SHBG but e2 and prolactin always stay in normal range at 200mg per week test c or 400 test u every other week. I do not need an ai. The doctor cannot differentiate between his prescription of 200 test c / week and UGL 400 test u every other week.

I blast a couple times per year, usually 500 test / 500 deca or EQ and still have not needed an ai. My prolactin is never raised with deca and my e2 will run around 35 but I feel good at that level.

 

[JackSkel]

Thank you for your reply.
I think Masteron only masks estrogenic symptoms, while Primo (real stuff) actually lowers E2. I'm no expert, just this is what I've read.
On the other hand I've read it many times that AI's in general tend to nuke estrogen even in lower amounts (not for everyone, but for many) and are liver toxic.
As I've said I believe that I lack DHT and I actually want to be more masculine too. I've read many times that people don't feel good on Test and AI, but when they add Primo or Masteron they feel like they are like a million bucks.
I've compared the two, and that's why I choose to rather add Mast/Primo.

Without any sarcasm whatsoever:
Can you elaborate why you think Arimidex/Aromasin is a better choice than adding Masteron/Primo? Do you think an AI is healthier choice than DHT dervatives? If yes, why?

I said it varies from person to person. There’s lots of guys that run Primo and it has ZERO effect on their e2.

TRT doctors typically prescribe arimidex. They usually over-prescribe it. Most guys prefer aromasin. Neither is “bad” if you take it within reason. “Bad” is when you abuse AIs because you are abusing steroids (super high doses).

Get bloodwork. This is your starting point.

I would get arimidex or aromasin on hand before you start anything. You can fuck around with masteron or primo later.

Run 200 mg/week of testosterone.

Get bloodwork after 6 weeks or after symptoms (just because you FEEL like you might have elevated e2 doesn’t mean you do).

Post the bloodwork here. There’s lots of smart guys that will help you interpret.

Don’t just take drugs because you “read it”. You need the experience first. Start simple and then add to it. There’s less unknown variables to control.

You’re not going to get “more masculine” by injecting anything.

 

[forzafonz]

I would recommend going on a TRT dose, doing bloodwork to check your estrogen levels after a month or two (depending on the easter which you're going to use), and only then thinking about adding something else. Have AI at hand, but don't snack on it like candies before doing bloodwork. If you feel like your estrogen is too high - go and do bloodwork. Many people take AI even though their levels of estrogen are not elevated on the testosterone dose that they are taking. Unfortunately, it is hard to predict how your body will respond, so the best way is to go slow.
I get very few sides from AAS, but I know a lot of people who suffered from acne, hair loss, depression, etc. at the same 'beginner' doses that I was running.

 

[Big_paul]

Hello!

I am a 28 years old male, I've started training 2 years ago. Previously I've had super bad habits, including smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, slamming down an entire bottle of old number 7 almost every day of the week(on my "day offs" I've only did half of that) and occasionally I've used weed too. My health in general was super trash, I was 83kg with a height of 201cm and looked like a zombie.
I've kicked every bad habit after doing a heroic dose of mushroom (If you are curious I've had no bad trip, also I've had no 'enlightement' while I've was on the shrooms, simply I've had a great time, but when I woke up the next day I wasn't able to smoke, and I threw up from even the smell of the booze)
Long story short, I've suddenly developed the urge to do proactive things in life, including moving my bony body.

I've went up to 107kg in 2 years, and I'm around 15-17% bodyfat (the abs still somewhat visible)
The noob gains stopped around after a year, and since then I'm really struggling to put on weight and to get better in the gym.
I've done a blood work and it turned out that my test level is at the 400 range. I've did the best I could do in the past 2 years, and my test is still super low. I was able to feel it tho, long recovery time, constant muscle pain, despite the clean eating and doing LISS a lot I have a tendency to just store fat, I have gyno (pubertal), extremly little and weak beard and almost no body hair on my upper body (on the other hand extremely thick and dense hair on the scalp) and I have a tendency to be emotional on videos with puppies and shit like that, and I don't have the best quality erections either.
I've train 6 times a week, full body, I've dialed it in pretty well, and I eat as clean as I can (90% of my food intake is clean) and my T level is still in the gutter.
I've decided that I go on TRT.
The problem is, I live in a country where getting TRT is near impossible, so I have to go underground.
(I'm planning to do an E2/Prolactin/Progesteron bloodwork too,just to know what is my baseline)

I've read a lot on this forum, and I've come up with a plan:

1. Elevate TEST - I've ordered Test Enanthate and HCG too. I'm planning to start with 125mg/week (+60-70mg Mast) together with 3x500IU - administer both T and HCG on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I plan to do this for 6 weeks, and then get a bloodwork. Depending on that bloodwork I will dial my TRT dose accordingly (Aiming at around 800-1000 level).
After that I want to also cruise a little on 250mg/week (+125mg Mast) for 6 weeks just to see how it feels and do a bloodwork. If I feel good I want to be on this cruise level for 6 or 9 months and then come back to TRT dose. I want to do this for 2 years, to max out my potential and then only do TRT.

2. Attack gyno - I fucking hate my bitch tits, so I've ordered Raloxifene for it. I'm planning to do 20mg/day (10mg morning, 10mg evening) probably for 3 months, then taper down and see if the tits remain shrunk.
3. AI - DHT derivative - After reading a lot of bad things about AI and crashed E I've decided to go for another compund which actually can benefit me further. I wanted to go for Primo but the shop is out of stock so I've went for Masteron instead. The reason is that I think I don't have much DHT to begin with, so I'm hoping this would give me a harder look and potentially give me a more masculine look (in my face, facial hair too). I'm not really afraid of becoming bald, as no one in my ancestors were bald, but if I start to shed I will stop. Mast 2:1 to Test, and adjust according to feel/bloodwork.

Questions:

1. Do you think that Masteron or Primobolan could be an "addon" to TRT in low doses for long periods of time (or forver)?

2. Do you think that doing 250mg Test and 125mg of Mast can be done for longer periods of time (like 6 months, or 9 months) and then coming down back to TRT (half of that dose) can be safe or is it too much? I've read that many do 200-250 mg Test year round without any problems.

Thank you for reading my story.

You would be better off running a trt dose with a cycle or 2 a year. A mini cycle lasting 9months is abuse. That's how you damage your health, besides it's su h a low dose you would not see much in the way of results.

Alcoholics/addicts tend to go to extremes.

 

[may2021]

Hello!

I am a 28 years old male, I've started training 2 years ago. Previously I've had super bad habits, including smoking two packs of cigarettes a day, slamming down an entire bottle of old number 7 almost every day of the week(on my "day offs" I've only did half of that) and occasionally I've used weed too. My health in general was super trash, I was 83kg with a height of 201cm and looked like a zombie.
I've kicked every bad habit after doing a heroic dose of mushroom (If you are curious I've had no bad trip, also I've had no 'enlightement' while I've was on the shrooms, simply I've had a great time, but when I woke up the next day I wasn't able to smoke, and I threw up from even the smell of the booze)
Long story short, I've suddenly developed the urge to do proactive things in life, including moving my bony body.

I've went up to 107kg in 2 years, and I'm around 15-17% bodyfat (the abs still somewhat visible)
The noob gains stopped around after a year, and since then I'm really struggling to put on weight and to get better in the gym.
I've done a blood work and it turned out that my test level is at the 400 range. I've did the best I could do in the past 2 years, and my test is still super low. I was able to feel it tho, long recovery time, constant muscle pain, despite the clean eating and doing LISS a lot I have a tendency to just store fat, I have gyno (pubertal), extremly little and weak beard and almost no body hair on my upper body (on the other hand extremely thick and dense hair on the scalp) and I have a tendency to be emotional on videos with puppies and shit like that, and I don't have the best quality erections either.
I've train 6 times a week, full body, I've dialed it in pretty well, and I eat as clean as I can (90% of my food intake is clean) and my T level is still in the gutter.
I've decided that I go on TRT.
The problem is, I live in a country where getting TRT is near impossible, so I have to go underground.
(I'm planning to do an E2/Prolactin/Progesteron bloodwork too,just to know what is my baseline)

I've read a lot on this forum, and I've come up with a plan:

1. Elevate TEST - I've ordered Test Enanthate and HCG too. I'm planning to start with 125mg/week (+60-70mg Mast) together with 3x500IU - administer both T and HCG on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I plan to do this for 6 weeks, and then get a bloodwork. Depending on that bloodwork I will dial my TRT dose accordingly (Aiming at around 800-1000 level).
After that I want to also cruise a little on 250mg/week (+125mg Mast) for 6 weeks just to see how it feels and do a bloodwork. If I feel good I want to be on this cruise level for 6 or 9 months and then come back to TRT dose. I want to do this for 2 years, to max out my potential and then only do TRT.

2. Attack gyno - I fucking hate my bitch tits, so I've ordered Raloxifene for it. I'm planning to do 20mg/day (10mg morning, 10mg evening) probably for 3 months, then taper down and see if the tits remain shrunk.
3. AI - DHT derivative - After reading a lot of bad things about AI and crashed E I've decided to go for another compund which actually can benefit me further. I wanted to go for Primo but the shop is out of stock so I've went for Masteron instead. The reason is that I think I don't have much DHT to begin with, so I'm hoping this would give me a harder look and potentially give me a more masculine look (in my face, facial hair too). I'm not really afraid of becoming bald, as no one in my ancestors were bald, but if I start to shed I will stop. Mast 2:1 to Test, and adjust according to feel/bloodwork.

Questions:

1. Do you think that Masteron or Primobolan could be an "addon" to TRT in low doses for long periods of time (or forver)?

2. Do you think that doing 250mg Test and 125mg of Mast can be done for longer periods of time (like 6 months, or 9 months) and then coming down back to TRT (half of that dose) can be safe or is it too much? I've read that many do 200-250 mg Test year round without any problems.

Thank you for reading my story.

Used to drink a bottle of vodka or whiskey daily, and smoked a few packs a day myself.

1.Carefully assessing which AAS to take goes out the window if it's shit gear.
Source good gear.
2. Watch out for extreme hair loss on Rolax or any off-label gyno meds.
Maybe opt rather for surgery?
3. Longer cardio will give you a harder look, everywhere, without sides.
4. Don't throw in too many things simultaneously as they have the potential to screw up your hormone profile, and you won't know which did what.
Thinking HCG here.