Gains kept after PCT

[sepsin]

I know that it’s def suboptimal to do PCT instead of just blast n cruise, and I’m also very aware that test is something for life ideally.

But just out of curiosity, what’s the rough % of gains that one can maintain from a 20-week test cycle after hopping off forever with a well planned PCT

Once again, ik this is suboptimal so pls don’t state the obvious.

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

Well, I couldn't put a number on it. But theoretically if you are at your natural limit and you use test to break through that , when you hop off gear the gains go with it. The idea is that the levels of t during your cycle become mandatory to maintain the muscle.
But...most people hopping on gear have not reached their natural potential. Therefore gain muscle they could've gained as a natural. So after they quit steroids they retain some of that muscle their body is able to sustain naturally.

 

[adrenalytic]

Another consideration is nutrition. AAS make it so much more of the nutrients you consume go towards anabolism. When you stop, you go back to normal partitioning which will undoubtedly be less efficient.

 

[sepsin]

Well, I couldn't put a number on it. But theoretically if you are at your natural limit and you use test to break through that , when you hop off gear the gains go with it. The idea is that the levels of t during your cycle become mandatory to maintain the muscle.
But...most people hopping on gear have not reached their natural potential. Therefore gain muscle they could've gained as a natural. So after they quit steroids they retain some of that muscle their body is able to sustain naturally.

yeah makes perfect sense, thx for the clarification.

In my case I def haven’t hit my natural max potential yet, I’m 2 years into the gym (and have been long past the newbie gains stage) but I’d still consider myself an intermediate lvl lifter.

I’ll use test + GH mainly for a lean bulk of +5 kilos (ideally), so I hope I’ll be able to maintain most gains w/ just this one cycle.

it’s still really stupid to do this though, I’m aware of that lol

 

[sepsin]

Another consideration is nutrition. AAS make it so much more of the nutrients you consume go towards anabolism. When you stop, you go back to normal partitioning which will undoubtedly be less efficient.

yeah makes perfect sense as well.

The main reason why I asked this is bcs there are so many gymbros out there like “oh, if you PCT and just do 1 cycle you’ll lose all your gains”

when in reality (at least from what I’ve read), you def will lose a lot like 30-50%, but you’ll also be able to maintain a good amount if things are done correctly

 

[adrenalytic]

it’s still really stupid to do this though, I’m aware of that lol

No different than pretty much everyone in your age group. And stop skipping leg day. More muscle = more natural test production.

 

[sepsin]

No different than pretty much everyone in your age group. And stop skipping leg day. More muscle = more natural test production.

ahaha yeah I agree, and I promise I won’t skip leg day lol

thanks for the help bro

 

[2lanes]

20-week test cycle after hopping off forever

OP is clearly in his "i am so smart, i will get as many gains as possible and then just stop forever" phase.

Stay on or stay off, don't fool yourself.

 

[sepsin]

OP is clearly in his "i am so smart, i will get as many gains as possible and then just stop forever" phase

wow.

I’m not sure how many more times I need to say the words “suboptimal” and “stupid” to make clear that this is NOT a smart choice.

So I rlly don’t know how you came up with the idea of me thinking that “I’m so smart”

 

[2lanes]

wow.

I’m not sure how many more times I need to say the words “suboptimal” and “stupid” to make clear that this is NOT a smart choice.

So I rlly don’t know how you came up with the idea of me thinking that “I’m so smart”

The point is that everyone starts like this. There is a reason for blast & cruise. Otherwise everyone would just do a "proper pct" and be done with it.

 

[Ron OG Mouse]

it’s still really stupid to do this though, I’m aware of that lol

No different than pretty much everyone in your age group. And stop skipping leg day. More muscle = more natural test production.

You didn't say your age. I'm gonna assume in your midish 20's (I hope) If that's the case it's no different than any of us idiots. We are all stupid. I'm 53 and still rocking Tren no matter how many bro's tell me I should cut it out of my cycles. If I were smart and just maintaining TRT cycles as prescribed by my doctor. Maybe I could say something without being a hypocrites then.

The only thing I will say is know your shit before you jump in. I was 30 and had been training since 15. I studied the boards for a year to learn about AS.

***** AND STOP SKIPPING LEG DAY!

 

[nathenking]

I have a hard time keeping the gains if I go PCT since I'm in my 40s. I'f I come down and cruise at 300mg of test a week with 5-6 iu of HGH and retain enough to be happy and it allows my blood markers to come down to optimal ranges. I will be on TRT for the rest of my life,wouldn't live without it anymore.

 

[sepsin]

You didn't say your age. I'm gonna assume in your midish 20's (I hope) If that's the case it's no different than any of us idiots. We are all stupid. I'm 53 and still rocking Tren no matter how many bro's tell me I should cut it out of my cycles. If I were smart and just maintaining TRT cycles as prescribed by my doctor. Maybe I could say something without being a hypocrites then.

The only thing I will say is know your shit before you jump in. I was 30 and had been training since 15. I studied the boards for a year to learn about AS.

I’m 23

thanks for sharing that, yeah tbh the reason why I don’t just do TRT is bcs my hormones are fine, and I can’t wrap my mind around doing TRT for life (at least right now at 23) to be fully transparent.

 

[Ron OG Mouse]

I’m 23

thanks for sharing that, yeah tbh the reason why I don’t just do TRT is bcs my hormones are fine, and I can’t wrap my mind around doing TRT for life (at least right now at 23) to be fully transparent.

Understand once you dip your toe in and mess with your natural hormones you will be doing TRT for life. My last Natty lest level came back at 160

 

[sepsin]

The point is that everyone starts like this. There is a reason for blast & cruise. Otherwise everyone would just do a "proper pct" and be done with it.

yeah, what ur saying def makes sense.

My only problem, like I mentioned previously, is that I really can’t wrap my mind around doing test for life, that’s why I don’t B&C.

but I agree with you bro

 

[Biggerisbetternl]

yeah, what ur saying def makes sense.

My only problem, like I mentioned previously, is that I really can’t wrap my mind around doing test for life, that’s why I don’t B&C.

but I agree with you bro

Its basically something like:
Do you prioritise recovery of your natural hormones? Then you will sacrifice some gains.
Do you prioritise keeping all gains? Then will you might sacrifice your recovery.

Imo blast and cruise is for those who care less about recovery in the short term.

 

[marsupial]

yeah makes perfect sense as well.

The main reason why I asked this is bcs there are so many gymbros out there like “oh, if you PCT and just do 1 cycle you’ll lose all your gains”

when in reality (at least from what I’ve read), you def will lose a lot like 30-50%, but you’ll also be able to maintain a good amount if things are done correctly

The reality is even more nuanced. The reality is that you gain less muscle tissue on a blast than you think, and much of the visual affects are due to water entering muscle tissue (due to higher test levels), or some other cosmetic affect from tren, DHTs, etc that makes you look a certain way. When the blast is done and you go to either TRT or natty, these water gains and cosmetic affects go away, and all your left with is the gained tissue. Your body can hold on to some of it due to more proliferated myonuclei and if you’re technically not at your genetic limit, but you’re still going to lose tissue in the months to come while back on your natty test production (which will be less than before for a while), especially if you had put much of that tissue on with tren or a 19-nor. ****Ultimately, the muscle tissue you keep months after your PCT, even if it’s more than what you could do natty over a longer time span, will absolutely pale in comparison to how you look while you’re on the blast.****

And this is why it is NEVER “just one cycle” where you go back to training natty and live happily ever after. The true “just one cycle” all quit the gym entirely because lifting natty seemed entirely pointless, and they didn’t care about juicing anymore. But in all likelihood, if you’re the kind of person to take steroids in the first place, you’re the kind of person to keep on taking steroids, and (hopefully) do whatever it takes to mitigate health issues while you continue to make gains

With all that, please think hard before pinning yourself for the first time. It truly will never be the same afterward, and you need to be prepared for the high possibility of lifetime dependence on at least TRT, both physiological and psychological. In truth, at your age, I don’t know if it’s possible for you to be prepared for this

 

[marsupial]

And honestly my post above puts an overly positive spin if anything. I didn’t even address that it’s possible to get so addicted that you severely fuck up your health at a young age (eg jon skywalker)

 

[Cman90]

The reality is even more nuanced. The reality is that you gain less muscle tissue on a blast than you think, and much of the visual affects are due to water entering muscle tissue (due to higher test levels), or some other cosmetic affect from tren, DHTs, etc that makes you look a certain way. When the blast is done and you go to either TRT or natty, these water gains and cosmetic affects go away, and all your left with is the gained tissue. Your body can hold on to some of it due to more proliferated myonuclei and if you’re technically not at your genetic limit, but you’re still going to lose tissue in the months to come while back on your natty test production (which will be less than before for a while), especially if you had put much of that tissue on with tren or a 19-nor. ****Ultimately, the muscle tissue you keep months after your PCT, even if it’s more than what you could do natty over a longer time span, will absolutely pale in comparison to how you look while you’re on the blast.****

And this is why it is NEVER “just one cycle” where you go back to training natty and live happily ever after. The true “just one cycle” all quit the gym entirely because lifting natty seemed entirely pointless, and they didn’t care about juicing anymore. But in all likelihood, if you’re the kind of person to take steroids in the first place, you’re the kind of person to keep on taking steroids, and (hopefully) do whatever it takes to mitigate health issues while you continue to make gains

With all that, please think hard before pinning yourself for the first time. It truly will never be the same afterward, and you need to be prepared for the high possibility of lifetime dependence on at least TRT, both physiological and psychological. In truth, at your age, I don’t know if it’s possible for you to be prepared for this

And honestly my post above puts an overly positive spin if anything. I didn’t even address that it’s possible to get so addicted that you severely fuck up your health at a young age (eg jon skywalker)

Very good post and well explained. I'm bookmarking it for the next wave of Looksmaxxers.

 

[marsupial]

With the current trends, they might very well make up the majority of this forum someday, much to our dismay