MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Generic first cycle log
- Thread starter PaulHeyman
- Start date
bigboy420
Member
Doesnt make sense to me whats to learn.
But good luck!
Ninjarello1
Member
But you can be sure that low or crashed e2 Is terribile experience
Yeah, i never said crashed e2 is a good thing. A little higher than reference range is good, like the 50-60.. And most average joes need 1 tab aromasin with every 250mg test. Usually guys that use gear for years don't need that much AI but first timers yes. I needed 1 tab of aromasin for 210mg test to keep me normal when i started.
phenominal34
Member
Depends on the milligram of the tab … 50 mgs a week (2x25mg tab) is high in my opinion for two 250 mg injections.
If you start with 2x250mg test injections with a normal e2 (~40-50) then yeah, maybe there's no need to go that high. But after finding out mid cycle that your e2 is 130+ what would you suggest for bringing down e2 to baseline? 50mg aromasin per week while he continues with 500mg of test there's no way it will crash his e2. I'd do 2x25mg aromasin for 4-5 weeks and then check again e2. I'm positive he will land to 60-70 and from there he can either maintain the dose or reduce it to 12,5 X 3 per week or at least twice.
We can only guestimate without coninuous bloodwork, i'm just proposing a way to reduce that unnecessarily high e2 to baseline and then check again.
Ninjarello1
Member
But no reason to add drugs if he s feeling good, why going to take a risk if he s feeling good, AI are not without sides, High e2 can be normal with High test level
BrunoES
Member
I wouldnt touch an AI if there are no E2 symptoms.
phenominal34
Member
50 mgs a week of aromasin for 4-5 weeks !!! You’re positive he’ll land at 60-70 from 130 … Wtf !!! You need to read up on aromasin.
My e2 went from 40 as a natty to 106 with 210 test per week + HCG while taking 3/4 of a tab of pharma aromasin a week. I'd probably need 1,5 tab to maintain a normal e2..and without HCG probably 1 tab on 210mg test. I don't need to read any further, 25mg aromasin is equivalent to 1mg arimidex. Many guys here taking one tab every 250 test. There's a recent thread of someone here taking 4 tabs for 1 gram of test. Do the math.
And I'll say again, this is not an absolute and doesn't work for everybody. It's just a common dose until you do bloodwork and fine tune it.
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phenominal34
Member
I get what you’re saying but it doesn’t equal to math like that. 25 mg of aromasin will almost cut e2 in half and you’re telling someone to take it 50 mgs 4-5 weeks straight and then check E2.
HCG will increase e2 substantially.
Also was this before you cut your weight ? Obviously woulda aromatised much more too if so. Good job also on that, tremendous work !!
PaulHeyman
Well-known Member
Hey yall,
Appreciate the back and forth and other perspectives on my AI. So today was the start of week 3 of running aromasin at 25/mgs monday and thursday.
For full clarity, I'm using liquid aromasin from Stan, 1.2ml = 25mgs
With the start of the aromasin 3 weeks ago, I planned to get another set of bloods in the next 2-3 weeks to see what E looks like on that dosage. Getting bloods specifically for any E updates is still the plan.
Prior to starting the AI, there were no real high E sides besides very slight acne on the shoulders that come and go within a few days, so effectively no real sides.
IDK if it's related in any capacity, but I've had some left elbow tendonitis flare up again the last few weeks and some soreness in my right elbow too, which is new. It's my understanding this might be a sign of low E, or possibly just more exaggerated now because my E has been at least somewhat lowered via AI.
As with all of this, it's my first rodeo, so always open to critique/feedback/etc from people with more knowledge than I, what's the best recommended course of action for these last 4 weeks:
Keep AI dose as is, 25mgs mon/thurs
Cut that does to 12.5 mon/thurs
Drop completely
Appreciate the back and forth and other perspectives on my AI. So today was the start of week 3 of running aromasin at 25/mgs monday and thursday.
For full clarity, I'm using liquid aromasin from Stan, 1.2ml = 25mgs
With the start of the aromasin 3 weeks ago, I planned to get another set of bloods in the next 2-3 weeks to see what E looks like on that dosage. Getting bloods specifically for any E updates is still the plan.
Prior to starting the AI, there were no real high E sides besides very slight acne on the shoulders that come and go within a few days, so effectively no real sides.
IDK if it's related in any capacity, but I've had some left elbow tendonitis flare up again the last few weeks and some soreness in my right elbow too, which is new. It's my understanding this might be a sign of low E, or possibly just more exaggerated now because my E has been at least somewhat lowered via AI.
As with all of this, it's my first rodeo, so always open to critique/feedback/etc from people with more knowledge than I, what's the best recommended course of action for these last 4 weeks:
Keep AI dose as is, 25mgs mon/thurs
Cut that does to 12.5 mon/thurs
Drop completely
It's not as strong as you think, it takes a lot to crush your e2 while still running a good amount of test. Yes it was before my latest cut (not the complete weight loss) and yes obviously i was aromatizing more due to higher bodyfat, BUT keep in mind that i was pinning 0,12ml every day and this leads to way lower aromatization compared to pinning 1ml twice a week. It kinda offsets the difference. Also, thanks for the good works man i really appreciate it.
Hey man, since you already have couple weeks with 25mg twice a week you can cut in half, maybe the other guys know better than me, i don't wanna cause you any suffering in case you're extremely sensitive to AI's.
The slight pains and any mood swings could be caused from the hormonal fluctuation and not by the given number of e2. When i lowered mine from 106 to 34 in a month period, i was feeling like crap, irritated, moody and with lower libido but as soon as i stabilized everything was perfect. I believe it's the drop that causes it and not that it's too low, but you can cut your dose in half and take 12,5x2 a week. It won't have a significant difference in the point you are now. If you decide to stop it completely, assuming you're in way lower e2 than your 130's it will again start creeping up and cause further hormonal imbalances. For me it's no bueno, everything is perfect when there's the least fluctuations between test, estrogen and DHT.
PaulHeyman
Well-known Member
Quick update early into week 10.
Thursday of last week lowered the AI dose down to 12.5mgs and definitely noticed an improvement in energy, lethargy that I didn't even realize until the dosage lowered.
Planning to stick with this dose thru the remainder of the cycle as I feel good there. Still planning to pull bloods specifically for AI dosage to see where E ends up at for future cycles.
Another bump to carbs to start this week. Increasing the oatmeal in meal 1
Thursday of last week lowered the AI dose down to 12.5mgs and definitely noticed an improvement in energy, lethargy that I didn't even realize until the dosage lowered.
Planning to stick with this dose thru the remainder of the cycle as I feel good there. Still planning to pull bloods specifically for AI dosage to see where E ends up at for future cycles.
Another bump to carbs to start this week. Increasing the oatmeal in meal 1
PaulHeyman
Well-known Member
Last pin of the cycle happened this morning. Bittersweet but loving every second of it.
Still kicking my own ass in the gym and seeing great gains. Well north of 4K cals and still well defined abs.
Only real sides I’ve seen over the 12 weeks is slight acne on the shoulders and upper back that subsides within a few days.
Still kicking my own ass in the gym and seeing great gains. Well north of 4K cals and still well defined abs.
Only real sides I’ve seen over the 12 weeks is slight acne on the shoulders and upper back that subsides within a few days.
johnthebigguy
New Member
Totally agree.
AIs are more harsh for your body than AAS
PaulHeyman
Well-known Member
Long time no update. Figure it's a good idea to close this out with post cycle bloods and a little update.
Last pin was 8/1, waited three weeks from that day to begin PCT. PCT was what I originally laid out in post #1:
Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 60/40/40/20
There were no noticeable sides from PCT. No libido issues or mental fuckery. I will say that the come down from peak cycle is definitely real. Going from the terminator back to normal kinda sucks, but it wasn't "unmotivating" or depressing or anything like that, it was expcted.
In the gym, lifts continued to move up during PCT. No weight has been lowered, but on some exercises, reps are more of a struggle. What was once a clean 12 reps is now a tough 10. But just progress to push forward to.
Scale weight, I lost about 5 or so pounds coming down, which I am happy with. Food has only been decreased by about 150 cals. Normally around 205 on any given day.
After PCT was completed, I waited two weeks to get bloods.
Post cycle results below, next to pre and mid cycle for context
Last pin was 8/1, waited three weeks from that day to begin PCT. PCT was what I originally laid out in post #1:
Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 60/40/40/20
There were no noticeable sides from PCT. No libido issues or mental fuckery. I will say that the come down from peak cycle is definitely real. Going from the terminator back to normal kinda sucks, but it wasn't "unmotivating" or depressing or anything like that, it was expcted.
In the gym, lifts continued to move up during PCT. No weight has been lowered, but on some exercises, reps are more of a struggle. What was once a clean 12 reps is now a tough 10. But just progress to push forward to.
Scale weight, I lost about 5 or so pounds coming down, which I am happy with. Food has only been decreased by about 150 cals. Normally around 205 on any given day.
After PCT was completed, I waited two weeks to get bloods.
Post cycle results below, next to pre and mid cycle for context
PaulHeyman
Well-known Member
Looks good though even the total t is mid range maybe it’s gonna creep back up if given time.
Any post cycle progress pictures?
