MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Giant Semaglutide Thread (and other GLP-1 / GIP agonists)
- Thread starter Doodle
- Start date
Ghoul
Well-known Member
1mg is the lowest dose tested in published research, and it lowers insulin resistance. Like all of Tirzapatide's benefits, it's dose dependent. So whether it's enough depends on what an insulin resistance test shows.
Worth noting that when used for diabetes treatment, the guidance advises patients should be incrementally stepped up to the 12.5mg as the minimum long term dose. So it follows that if you have diabetic levels of insulin resistance, that's how much it may take to overcome it. Lower levels could be effectively treated with lower doses of Tirz.
Thank you! I’ll stick with 1mg for now. I don’t think I’m insulin resistant but want to make sure I don’t become it now that I’ve added rhGH back in after some time off. The main thing for me is the anti inflammatory effects, which I believe is what helps my IBS. I have no idea though, I’m not a doctor, just someone trying to get huge.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Tirz is probably the most effective treatment by far for stopping the progression of, and reversing, pre diabetes. So along with the other benefits (especially the reduction in inflammation you mentioned), it seems ideal to head off insulin resistance from developing.
Sicsemptyran
New Member
Just realized that phase 2 trial data is being released this month for the use of Ostarine/Enobosarm to prevent muscle wasting in patients using Wegovy (Sema). Likely irrelevant for most people here who are on legitimate AAS, but nevertheless would be interesting if a SARM ends up going fully through a clinical pipeline for this niche usage.
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
It's very individual. For me SEMA give greater appetite suppression and the side I get is nausea. The nausea goes in parallel with the level of appetite suppression. Basically I must increase dose carefully to manage it.
The only side I get from Tirz is acid reflux which increases with higher dose and stays. Famotidine is mandatory for me when on Tirz.
I actually find the acid reflux more difficult to deal with than the nausea, but it is manageable.
Sides range from a compound being completely intolerable for some people and non existent for others.
SubparMarioBro
New Member
Reta is pretty potent here. For example here’s some numbers for Reta in T2D trials.
That 39% reduction in HOMA-IR is almost double the improvement in insulin resistance versus Tirz.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Thanks for the data. Are the numbers for Tirz available? I was under the impression Tirz was somewhat superior for T2D, and Eli wasn't even seeking approval for Reta's use as a T2D treatment because of that. Though I'm not 100% certain on that point.
SubparMarioBro
New Member
23.4% reduction in HOMA2-IR after 40 weeks in Surpass-1 (T2D study).
Tirzepatide as Monotherapy Improved Markers of Beta-cell Function and Insulin Sensitivity in Type 2 Diabetes (SURPASS-1) - PMC
Tirzepatide is a glucose-dependent insulinotropic polypeptide and glucagon-like peptide-1 receptor agonist approved for treatment of type 2 diabetes (T2D). SURPASS-1, a phase 3 trial of tirzepatide monotherapy in people with early T2D, enables ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
SubparMarioBro
New Member
They’re also definitely working on Reta for T2D. They’re just doing it concurrently with the obesity trials (whereas Tirz did T2D first and then obesity second). So right now you’ve got…
Triumph-1: Obesity
Triumph-2: T2D + Overweight
Triumph-3: CVD + Obesity
Triumph-4: Osteoarthritis (Knee) + Overweight
Triumph-5: Eli Lilly Civil War… Tirz vs Reta
Triumph-Outcomes: ASCVD or Renal Disease + Obesity
1 and 2 have substudies for sleep apnea.
Triumph-1: Obesity
Triumph-2: T2D + Overweight
Triumph-3: CVD + Obesity
Triumph-4: Osteoarthritis (Knee) + Overweight
Triumph-5: Eli Lilly Civil War… Tirz vs Reta
Triumph-Outcomes: ASCVD or Renal Disease + Obesity
1 and 2 have substudies for sleep apnea.
Ghoul
Well-known Member
Since Reta is superior what's the purpose of them conducting this trial?
ClinicalTrials.gov
clinicaltrials.gov
Here2Learn
Member
Personally I think it is to justify the huge price tag that will come with Reta. They already have the data to know which one will perform better.Since Reta is superior what's the purpose of them conducting this trial?
ClinicalTrials.gov
SubparMarioBro
New Member
The indication for Triumph-5 is just obesity so it’s not as if they’re fishing for specific applications. This is a war between two of their own products. I suspect the goal is to conclusively demonstrate that Reta produces superior outcomes and justifies a higher price. I’m not sure why else they’d go through this effort.
The main advantage to a head-to-head trial is that you get a straightforward comparison. The same trial examining the same metrics on the same time frame for two different drugs.
Right now folks are generally comparing data for a 48-week trial of Reta against data for a 72-week trial of Tirz. Can you imagine how the difference in when the trial ends might affect your results. So you’ve got people saying “Reta causes people to lost 24% while Tirz causes them to lose 21%” but it’s actually 24% in 48 weeks vs 21% in 72 weeks. Once Triumph-1 prints results the difference between Reta and Tirz will be a lot more apparent.
But the issue with apples to apples comparisons goes beyond obvious discrepancies like that. For example the Reta phase 2 study was done with a trial group that was 52% male. The Tirz phase 3 obesity study was done with a trial group that was 70% female. All of these trials have demonstrated that this class of drugs consistently produces stronger results in women, so having a trial with lopsided demographics like that will skew the results. In the Reta phase 2 the average female in the highest-losing trial group lost 28.5% whereas the male in the highest-losing group lost 21.9%. So if the Reta trial had similar demographics to the Tirz trial, they probably would’ve been able to boast about a 26.5% weight loss. Stretch that to 72 weeks and you’re probably somewhere above 30%.
But you really need a head-to-head if you want to minimize the differences between trials as much as possible.
I’d be really interested if these trials will provide more insights into how Reta is working, because while at face value it seems like Tirzepatide-with-bonus, I suspect that there’s second and third order effects in play that actually make how it works to be quite different. For example the improvement over Tirz in reducing HOMA-IR in T2D is probably mostly due to the glucagon action going after visceral fat.
Last edited:
SubparMarioBro
New Member
Best place before reconstituting is the freezer
Anat
Member
Does anyone use HGH at a dosage of 2–3iu together with Tirz? Could someone share their experience - how it feels and whether you’ve noticed any positive or negative effects? Theoretically, Tirz should control blood sugar levels that can rise from HGH, or does that depend on the dosages?
Trenbolonetax
Well-known Member
I've used Tirz 15mg and Reta 15mg with GH doses between 8 and 16iu. They both help control BG elevation and ameliorate some of the insulin desensitizing impact from GH.
Tirz will help control BG elevation from GH, in a dose dependent manner (of both GH and Tirz).
However, GH of 2 to 3iu, I personally wouldn't be very concerned about BG elevations from that dose.
I've noticed zero negatives from including Tirz and Reta with GH. Only positives.
Similar threads
- Question
