Girly's going Nomad

[james2012]

Dude, I don't understand how you can say that government "does not contribute to the bottom line". Have you ever worked in government? Have you ever worked in a position that obtained government contracts? Looking at my little mid-western city, where would it be without government $$$? Dead in the water. The 20-25 engineering firms in town utilize quite a bit of government revenue, whether it be from municipalities or state DOT. The infrastructure improvements seen here due to stimulus and have been astounding and much needed. Even better is that local projects here have built off of stimulus projects and the community is starting to make some real headway towards a major recovery. Everyone in this region won because of the stimulus, and is continuing to win. Why? Because the policy makers and public administrators in this region worked as hard as they could to make sure that we took advantage of it in every way we could.

As a gov't worker myself I do not get a pension, nor am I overpaid by ANY means. I pay taxes just like you do.

Hint: When the number of public workers exceeds the number of private sector workers what happens to the economy of that country? Second hint: think Greece, Spain, Portugal and soon to be the rest of Europe. Hint 3: Who is going to get us into space for cheaper: NASA or SpaceX? Hint 4: When government contracts are awarded for some job and a private sector does the exact same job, which costs more and where does the money come from? Hint 5: in the former it is taxes and the later it is private investment.

In the net, when compared to private sector jobs, government sucks out money and the private sector creates wealth. Don't just look at workers, look at the entire input/output stream.

White House launches new campaign to cut waste - The Washington Post

Hmmm...what does this story tell you? Why the need to cut waste? Why not pay for that $700 toilet seat? I mean, how comfy for the bottom!

Expand the viewpoint of where you are looking in your accounting. Look to Europe to find out what really happens. Is the government creating wealth in Europe? Last hint: this is not a trick question.

In conclusion - stick to your beliefs. In the end, they will be the downfall of most of you. If you think the Europeans are riding the high life with big smiles on their faces, your not reading the news. When the IMF warns Europe and the United States to cut it back - NOW - or face big problems I think one should at least pay a little bit of attention, especially when Greece, when faced with the same ultimatum years ago, is now sitting at a CCC credit rating.

Makes you wanna think a bit, doesn't it. At least I hope it does.

This is not a personal attack.

Do you at least get a 401K? You must have some source of retirement capability. If not, change jobs fast. And how do you feel that your tax dollars go towards funding a public worker? Why should they not pay into their pension funds like I (and hopefully you) pay into your 401K? ESPECIALLY when Federal pay ahead of private industry - USATODAY.com.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Hint: When the number of public workers exceeds the number of private sector workers what happens to the economy of that country?

I am in no way advocating that we need more public than private sector employees out there, I'm just saying that gov't provides a hell of a lot of benefit for the private sector and provides services that no one in the public sector would.

Second hint: think Greece, Spain, Portugal and soon to be the rest of Europe.

Ok. Not sure what to think about here.

Hint 3: Who is going to get us into space for cheaper: NASA or SpaceX?

Maybe SpaceX, but will America (and the rest of the world) be able to benefit from the technological advances made by a private corporation, that they then patent? They will from the research NASA does, which in my mind is the #1 reason why the space program deserves all the funding we can get it. I can care less about going into space, I just want the technology it takes to get us there.

Hint 4: When government contracts are awarded for some job and a private sector does the exact same job, which costs more and where does the money come from?

In my experience the private sector bid almost universally comes in MUCH higher. My organization is a prime example of this. We do planning/design work for a fraction of a cost that a private sector planning/design firm. Small municipalities and rural areas take advantage of it because they cannot afford to pay big bucks to consultants.

In the net, when compared to private sector jobs, government sucks out money and the private sector creates wealth. Don't just look at workers, look at the entire input/output stream.

Sure, but what i typically see is the wealth going to the top 5% and the rest getting the shaft.

Hmmm...what does this story tell you? Why the need to cut waste?

If you don't think private sector employers have waste they need to cut you are dreaming.

If you think the Europeans are riding the high life with big smiles on their faces, your not reading the news.

I do not have this opinion at all.

And how do you feel that your tax dollars go towards funding a public worker?

I think a reasonable pension is not a bad thing. I don't like to see individuals making $200k a year pensions, but it does happen. I am hopeful that this trend is reversing.

I have a 403(b) which is a piece of shit.

As for the federal jobs - Yep. They pay well. That's the one area of government where they pay very well. Do I have a problem with that? Not as long as they are doing their job well and it is not particularly egregiuos. I am sure there is some egregiousness, but there is plenty in the private sector as well.

 

[zkt]

Dude, I don't understand how you can say that government "does not contribute to the bottom line". Have you ever worked in government? Have you ever worked in a position that obtained government contracts? Looking at my little mid-western city, where would it be without government $$$? Dead in the water. The 20-25 engineering firms in town utilize quite a bit of government revenue, whether it be from municipalities or state DOT. The infrastructure improvements seen here due to stimulus and have been astounding and much needed. Even better is that local projects here have built off of stimulus projects and the community is starting to make some real headway towards a major recovery. Everyone in this region won because of the stimulus, and is continuing to win. Why? Because the policy makers and public administrators in this region worked as hard as they could to make sure that we took advantage of it in every way we could.

As a gov't worker myself I do not get a pension, nor am I overpaid by ANY means. I pay taxes just like you do.

Welcome to the INSANITY forum. Sure took ya long enough.

 

[james2012]

The shaft - which is what Socialism does: Euro-Zone Ministers Move to Clear Greek Payout - WSJ.com

One year into its multiyear fiscal program, Greece is running out of steam. The budget is off target thanks to a tanking economy and persistent tax evasion.

In Germany, politicians have worried for months that Greece will end up defaulting in a couple of years. By then, the European taxpayer would have replaced the bond market as Greece's main creditor, thanks to the loans euro-zone countries are now giving Athens to pay bondholders. German taxpayers would stand to lose the most when Greek debt is written off.

This is where we are heading. Bonds in China are being dumped, nobody in the United States is buying them and won't until - you guessed it - we raise interest rates to make buying US bonds more attractive. This will have a ripple effect throughout the economy that is not good. Some of your points are well taken and yes, Democrat or Republican, it will always be a shrinking number of rich and middle class and a growing lower class. Why? Because Repubs have given up on free market principles. They are nothing like Reagan who pulled us out of Carter's nightmare by lowering the top tax bracket from 70% down to the lower 30s.

Both parties grow government - that is the problem. The only difference is the Libs will get us to screwville a lot faster than the Repubs, but we'll get there until we demand government actually frigging shrink. No slowdown in growth, but actually shrink. If you want to know how hard this will be - nobody has EVER done it. Even under Reagan government grew. The more government, the slower the economic growth. Throw in a couple of idiots like Obambi and Gheitner who think the government can spend you out of a recession and man are you screwed.

We don't even have to look at history to know that Socialism is doomed to fail. Just look across the bloody pond. It's right there in our faces, staring at us. If you want to know the future of America given the course we are on, follow what happens in Europe. As Europe goes, so will America unless something is done to stop it.

 

[CubbieBlue]

The shaft - which is what Socialism does: Euro-Zone Ministers Move to Clear Greek Payout - WSJ.com



This is where we are heading. Bonds in China are being dumped, nobody in the United States is buying them and won't until - you guessed it - we raise interest rates to make buying US bonds more attractive. This will have a ripple effect throughout the economy that is not good. Some of your points are well taken and yes, Democrat or Republican, it will always be a shrinking number of rich and middle class and a growing lower class. Why? Because Repubs have given up on free market principles. They are nothing like Reagan who pulled us out of Carter's nightmare by lowering the top tax bracket from 70% down to the lower 30s.

Both parties grow government - that is the problem. The only difference is the Libs will get us to screwville a lot faster than the Repubs, but we'll get there until we demand government actually frigging shrink. No slowdown in growth, but actually shrink. If you want to know how hard this will be - nobody has EVER done it. Even under Reagan government grew. The more government, the slower the economic growth. Throw in a couple of idiots like Obambi and Gheitner who think the government can spend you out of a recession and man are you screwed.

We don't even have to look at history to know that Socialism is doomed to fail. Just look across the bloody pond. It's right there in our faces, staring at us. If you want to know the future of America given the course we are on, follow what happens in Europe. As Europe goes, so will America unless something is done to stop it.

You know, it would be a lot easier to take you seriously if you refrained from repeatedly using terms like "Obambi" (is that a slam at the Osama/Obama or referring to Obama as Bambi? I don't even know...not that it offends me, it just sounds retarded ) and repeatedly telling me to "look at Greece/France/Italy". What's your solution? Cut back on government? That's fine, but you can't privatize everything.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Welcome to the INSANITY forum. Sure took ya long enough.

:tiphat

 

[zkt]

It is not greed. You want a win-win. Then my taxes pay for public pensions and their taxes pay for my pension. But wait, if we are going to do that, why not each of us just pay for our own retirement. Now there's an idea. You see, the way it is set up now, I lose and the public workers win. Now anybody who understands basic economics knows that public government does not contribute to the bottom line - they are part of where tax revenue flows. Government does not grow economies - even Obama just admitted that. Porkulus dictated that there are no such things as shovel ready jobs (the POTUS even admitted it so this is beyond debate now). So smaller government leads to a thriving economy. Bigger government shrinks the middle class with more of us moving into the impoverished realm than joining the ranks of the rich. To make it easy for you: Athens protests: Syntagma Square on frontline of European austerity protests | World news | The Guardian

This should scare the living crap out of you. If it does not, you are not reading it. The Greece economy is in freefall. Why? Decades of big government. A big nanny state. And a bunch of crybabies who have to wean themselves off the government teat because nobody wants to loan them any more money unless they start acting like adults. What gets me is that most of Europe which is telling them to do this is heading in the same direction and now, so are we, but on steroids.

So yes, the masses will riot. And they will pay the price. You see, there is this thing called reality. Go ahead and stop the austerity measures and keep your piece of the government teat. In the end, the whole thing collapses and neither you or anybody else has anything but the clothes on your back. Great plan. Instead of encouraging independence and hard work, what was emphasized was that the government was always going to take care of you. But even a half-wit knows this is not sustainable.

If this makes me as asshole, I gladly accept that label. But it certainly says something that when somebody points out the obvious they are suddenly labeled. It says something about the blind allegiance to propaganda and ideology about the person making the statement. But hey, it does not bother me. I have my way out. Most of you don't. So when this house of card collapses, maybe you will recall the day when you read a little something about why and wonder WTF you were thinking. Then you can get mad at the people who deserve your anger. Don't mistake me, I don't give a whit what anybody thinks of me and I never will. You see, I think for myself. I am independent. Both parties suck. Socialism sucks. Unfettered capitalism sucks, and there is no such thing as a real leader anymore. So in the end, my money is on most of us getting f**ked.

Ya know, Greg, I`ve tried several times to have intelligent conversations with you on just about topic you like.
It has never worked out. Not because you dont have anything worthwhile to say; I think you make some excellent points every so often. You are a very skilled writer, obviously smarter that most, but your content reads like the text off a Fox news teleprompter. But the biggest obstacle to communication is the blatent fact that you wont stay on topic and catagorically dismiss opposing ideas.
I brought up the subject of the zero sum game and infered that the principle applies to social and economic issues. You dismissed the idea in three words and then went on to rant about taxes, retirment plans, the size of government, and economic theory; and that was just the first paragraph.
There is no point in trying to discuss issues with you unless you give consideration to opposing points and stay on topic.
I really am beginning to wonder if you arent, in reality, on the Fox payroll.

 

[GirlyMan]

So yes, the masses will riot. And they will pay the price.

Not if the constables are on the side of the masses they won't.

If this makes me as asshole, I gladly accept that label.

I'm not calling anyone an asshole. I'm just cautioning everyone against the temptation to be an asshole without first considering whether it's really called for.

In the interests of full disclosure I am a GS 15 Step 10 Computer Engineer working in the Washington DC Metro area making $155,500 who worked his ass off to get to where I am. One of my main job requirements consists of reviewing proposals and bids and monitoring contracts to make sure the Beltway Bandits don't rob the taxpayers blind. I am very good at it. I am so good at it that over the course of my career several of those Bandits have offered to double my salary and throw in a bunch of other lucrative incentives. I declined. Would you have me accept those offers gmerits? I mean I've certainly been tempted more than once to just say fuck the rest of you, you're on your own.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Not if the constables are on the side of the masses they won't.


I'm not calling anyone an asshole. I'm just cautioning everyone against the temptation to be an asshole without first considering whether it's really called for.

In the interests of full disclosure I am a GS 15 Step 10 Computer Engineer working in the Washington DC Metro area making $155,500 who worked his ass off to get to where I am. One of my main job requirements consists of reviewing proposals and bids and monitoring contracts to make sure the Beltway Bandits don't rob the taxpayers blind. I am very good at it. I am so good at it that over the course of my career several of those Bandits have offered to double my salary and throw in a bunch of other lucrative incentives. I declined. Would you have me accept those offers gmerits? I mean I've certainly been tempted more than once to just say fuck the rest of you, you're on your own.

Man, I give you credit just for sticking through the federal hiring process. I know it was easier back i the day (my dad used to be a fed too) but now a days the hiring process is so fucking detailed and strict it takes about 3 days just to get an application in, and that's if you are fast.

 

[GirlyMan]

Man, I give you credit just for sticking through the federal hiring process. I know it was easier back i the day (my dad used to be a fed too) but now a days the hiring process is so fucking detailed and strict it takes about 3 days just to get an application in, and that's if you are fast.

I was recruited. Back in the day if you had the mad ninja skills they wanted and a high enough graduating College GPA (>=3.6 on a 4.0 scale), they had Direct Hire Authority which bypassed the entire process. That authority still exists to this day by the way.

 

[james2012]

Not if the constables are on the side of the masses they won't.


I'm not calling anyone an asshole. I'm just cautioning everyone against the temptation to be an asshole without first considering whether it's really called for.

In the interests of full disclosure I am a GS 15 Step 10 Computer Engineer working in the Washington DC Metro area making $155,500 who worked his ass off to get to where I am. One of my main job requirements consists of reviewing proposals and bids and monitoring contracts to make sure the Beltway Bandits don't rob the taxpayers blind. I am very good at it. I am so good at it that over the course of my career several of those Bandits have offered to double my salary and throw in a bunch of other lucrative incentives. I declined. Would you have me accept those offers gmerits? I mean I've certainly been tempted more than once to just say fuck the rest of you, you're on your own.

Your job is rare and requires a high degree of skill. One cannot use a outlier as an example of the norm. I applaud you and it is quite clear you don't fit into the category I define. It is the rest of the government that wastes, takes, and spends.

 

[james2012]

Not if the constables are on the side of the masses they won't.


I'm not calling anyone an asshole. I'm just cautioning everyone against the temptation to be an asshole without first considering whether it's really called for.

In the interests of full disclosure I am a GS 15 Step 10 Computer Engineer working in the Washington DC Metro area making $155,500 who worked his ass off to get to where I am. One of my main job requirements consists of reviewing proposals and bids and monitoring contracts to make sure the Beltway Bandits don't rob the taxpayers blind. I am very good at it. I am so good at it that over the course of my career several of those Bandits have offered to double my salary and throw in a bunch of other lucrative incentives. I declined. Would you have me accept those offers gmerits? I mean I've certainly been tempted more than once to just say fuck the rest of you, you're on your own.

Thankfully I live in Texas where we know the Sheriff is the highest law enforcement official in the country - not the regular officers, or constables or even federal law enforcement. The Sheriff has the right, under the constitution, to arrest any other law enforcement official who he deems is violating the constitutional rights of any citizen. And the constables are not dumb either.

Officers do not have to even follow a state law. Take my brother in OKC. OK passed a law telling officers to hunt down, arrest, and deport illegal aliens. They just plain old said nope. Why? Not enough men. The consequences? Nada. There are also some things officers will not do. When recently asked by my wife, a Texas Ranger and Sheriff both laughed the asses off when asked if they would disarm Texans if Obama ordered it. They said they valued their life and there was no way in hell that would or could ever happen in Texas. And we are not the only state where such an act would be, shall we say, highly inadvisable.

 

[CubbieBlue]

gmerits;767812: Thankfully I live in Texas where we know the Sheriff is the highest law enforcement official in the country
Officers do not have to even follow a state law.

I find that actually kind of scary. I don't like giving LE power like that. Who's protecting you if you've pissed off the sheriff?

 

[james2012]

I find that actually kind of scary. I don't like giving LE power like that. Who's protecting you if you've pissed off the sheriff?

Your only recourse in the state (or federal level if a fundamental constitutional right was being violated) would be the governor, the state courts, and finally the federal courts. However, the federal courts only should have jurisdiction (per the constitution) if and only if your constitutional rights were being violated by your state and no recourse in the state resolved the issue to your satisfaction.

But yes, piss off the Sheriff and you could find yourself in deep shit. Sheriff Mack has been going about the country educating Sheriff's about their power.

If you want to see what a Sheriff can do for you, this is one of the most intriguing stories in recent memory to me: YouTube - ?tony demaio sheriff?‏

Watch Tony DeMaio One, Two, and Three. He stood up to the feds on behalf of a cattle farmer stating to them that he was the final authority in the county and basically dared them to arrest him. He showed up with his guys, the feds with theirs. The feds backed down.