Gyno worsen if estrogen normal?

[Test_Subject]

Are you saying estrogen doesn't cause breast growth? (I know the answer, just checking ur knowledge)

Are you drunk? Estradiol is estrogen. Have you never had a hormone panel done?

There are three forms of estrogen (four if you count pregnancy hormones). Estradiol is one of them...

 

[Test_Subject]

How's it not a serious question.

Theoretically estrogen can be normal yet still have a high estradiol. Just seeing if this has ever happened?

Seeing as estriol and estrone are present in only trace amounts, how can you have normal estrogen levels but high estradiol? E2 is the single largest contributor to total estrogen by a massive margin...

 

[Theworm]

Seeing as estriol and estrone are present in only trace amounts, how can you have normal estrogen levels but high estradiol? E2 is the single largest contributor to total estrogen by a massive margin...

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify estradiol doesn't = estrogen, but you are on the right path. Estrogen is the total of estradiol estriol and estrone and yes you could have a high estradiol with normal estrogen.. few cases of it published..

 

[Test_Subject]

Thanks for the reply. Just to clarify estradiol doesn't = estrogen, but you are on the right path. Estrogen is the total of estradiol estriol and estrone and yes you could have a high estradiol with normal estrogen.. few cases of it published..

I said as much in several posts. E2 is an estrogen, but there are several types.
I know what total estrogen means, but thanks for reiteration what I've already said.

E3 is negligible in males with normal physiology . If E2 is high, total estrogen will be high in almost all cases, because E2 accounts for the vast majority of estrogen in males.

There's a reason why they give estradiol to trans-gendered male to females to make them grow breasts. High E1 will make you sick as a dog. It contributes to feminization characteristics as well, but it is not nearly as prevalent as E2.

Now, that said, normal estrogen levels can be accompanied by gyno or feminization symptoms if testosterone levels are low in comparison to total estrogen, even if estrogen is in the normal range. That should not be an issue on TRT if your dose has you in normal to high range for total test.

 

[Docd187123]

Seeing as estriol and estrone are present in only trace amounts, how can you have normal estrogen levels but high estradiol? E2 is the single largest contributor to total estrogen by a massive margin...

Actually, E2 is not the biggest contributor to total estrogen. Estrone makes up a slightly higher percent typically. Look at the reference ranges for each in the attached pictures.





Here's an example of normal E2 but high total estrogen.

 

[Docd187123]

I'm on trt at a low dose and my estrogen was within normal limits. I know estradiol should have been checked.
But if estrogen is normal range can
1. Estradiol still be high?
2. Can gyno worsen?

1) yes
2) yes
3) unasked but I'll answer anyway, gyno can form and/or worsen even with normal estrogen and normal estradiol levels.

 

[Test_Subject]

Actually, E2 is not the biggest contributor to total estrogen. Estrone makes up a slightly higher percent typically. Look at the reference ranges for each in the attached pictures.

View attachment 67505

View attachment 67506

Here's an example of normal E2 but high total estrogen.

View attachment 67507

It seems that I need to re-evaluate my understanding.

Thanks for the correction. I think that I'll eat my crow well-seasoned.

Edit: I suppose I also owe @Theworm an apology.

 

[Docd187123]

It seems that I need to re-evaluate my understanding.

Thanks for the correction. I think that I'll eat my crow well-seasoned.

Estradiol is 1.5-4x more present than estrone in non pregnant, post menopausal women but typically lower than estrone in males and post menopausal women. The situation is made even more murky bc E1 can convert to E2 and vice versa. And while E1 can help lead to gyno in males, it's typically not worried about bc E2 is 1.25-5x more potent than E1.

 

[Test_Subject]

Estradiol is 1.5-4x more present than estrone in non pregnant, post menopausal women but typically lower than estrone in males and post menopausal women. The situation is made even more murky bc E1 can convert to E2 and vice versa. And while E1 can help lead to gyno in males, it's typically not worried about bc E2 is 1.25-5x more potent than E1.

E2 is definitely the more powerful feminizing hormone -- hence its use in transgender therapy. I was under the impression that E1 was less prevalent as far as blood concentration levels, but the source you posted indicates that that is not the case.

I'm not too proud to admit to being wrong. It happens on occasion

 

[Docd187123]

E2 is definitely the more powerful feminizing hormone -- hence its use in transgender therapy. I was under the impression that E1 was less prevalent as far as blood concentration levels, but the source you posted indicates that that is not the case.

I'm not too proud to admit to being wrong. It happens on occasion

Some people cannot own up so respect.

 

[suncom3]

Estradiol is 1.5-4x more present than estrone in non pregnant, post menopausal women but typically lower than estrone in males and post menopausal women. The situation is made even more murky bc E1 can convert to E2 and vice versa. And while E1 can help lead to gyno in males, it's typically not worried about bc E2 is 1.25-5x more potent than E1.

wow how often does that happen? most blood tests just report E2. also when running trt doses of T under 1000 what is the best E level to shoot for? where do most men feel best. Last test I was at 30,but I have high lipids im working on bringing down,dont really wana try AI as it seems to worsen hdl in many cases, I could take more dim to reduce such small numbers i assume?

 

[Docd187123]

wow how often does that happen? most blood tests just report E2. also when running trt doses of T under 1000 what is the best E level to shoot for? where do most men feel best. Last test I was at 30,but I have high lipids im working on bringing down,dont really wana try AI as it seems to worsen hdl in many cases, I could take more dim to reduce such small numbers i assume?

How often does what happen?

Most blood tests we do show E2 and that's what they should show. E1 isn't really important for us to worry about. I wouldn't worry about E2 levels unless you became symptomatic from high E2 which isn't going to happen at levels of 30.

Don't waste money on DIM.

 

[Erin]

wow how often does that happen? most blood tests just report E2. also when running trt doses of T under 1000 what is the best E level to shoot for? where do most men feel best. Last test I was at 30,but I have high lipids im working on bringing down,dont really wana try AI as it seems to worsen hdl in many cases, I could take more dim to reduce such small numbers i assume?

I believe lowest all-cause mortality was E2 21.80 to 30.11pg/mL. However, if you're on TRT, I would just focus on keeping it in-range (under 40, depending on the assay).

 

[suncom3]

I see under 40 is in range,was just wondering where most guys feel best,in other words where is best strength and sexual performance.

Doc,I meant how often does a test turn up like the one you posted. Most tests just show e2,so how would most people know?Ive read dim is not very useful a couple places,but some guys and alot of the trt docs swear by it.

 

[suncom3]

How often does what happen?

Most blood tests we do show E2 and that's what they should show. E1 isn't really important for us to worry about. I wouldn't worry about E2 levels unless you became symptomatic from high E2 which isn't going to happen at levels of 30.

Don't waste money on DIM.

hmm not sure i understanding,I thought E2 was total all types of E,why do they use just E2 in most male hormone panels if it doesnt show the whole story of E

I dont expect to have any sides at 30E was just wondering where most guys feel and perform their best. I read some guys using some ai or other drug letro or tamox? crashed E and feel terrible

 

[Docd187123]

hmm not sure i understanding,I thought E2 was total all types of E,why do they use just E2 in most male hormone panels if it doesnt show the whole story of E

I dont expect to have any sides at 30E was just wondering where most guys feel and perform their best. I read some guys using some ai or other drug letro or tamox? crashed E and feel terrible

Total estrogen = E1(estrone) + E2(estradiol) + E3(estriol)

Most just get E2 done bc E3 is a pregnancy hormone we males don't care about and E1 is much less bio active than E2 so we don't really worry about it either.

 

[master.on]

I'm on trt at a low dose and my estrogen was within normal limits. I know estradiol should have been checked.
But if estrogen is normal range can
1. Estradiol still be high?
2. Can gyno worsen?

See if you can get a chest/breast ultrasound, preferably ordered by a doctor (even if not covered by insurance) to see what's inside to tell true gyno from puffy nipples.
Best advice you can ever get for gyno.

 

[suncom3]

Total estrogen = E1(estrone) + E2(estradiol) + E3(estriol)

Most just get E2 done bc E3 is a pregnancy hormone we males don't care about and E1 is much less bio active than E2 so we don't really worry about it either.

Ok i see,well what happened in the blood test u posted where e1 was so outa sync with e2? particular kind of compound?

 

[Theworm]

It seems that I need to re-evaluate my understanding.

Thanks for the correction. I think that I'll eat my crow well-seasoned.

Edit: I suppose I also owe @Theworm an apology.

No problem! Much respect for owning up.

@the doc:
I'm on trt at a dose of 25 mg every 3rd day. One month I'm my TT was 453 and estrogen was 156 (60-190 range).

Think that balance would worsen gyno? I'm going to get labs tommorrow, 2 months into trt.
I'm going to order prolactin, estradiol and TT. Anything else should I add to this?

Thanks for the input!!