Help With PCT and what my blood work shows (test at 58)

[Vaneers1]

Hello all,
I am new to the forum so forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this thread, but I am in need of desperate help. Long story short, I ran a 12 week test E cycle (with 40 mg of dbol for the first 4 weeks) starting at the end of December 2016. Fast forward to right now 2017, and my test is still very low. I was stupid and didn't get bloodwork after that cycle, but about 4 months ago I felt lethargic, no libido, tired, depressing thoughts, ect. I have visited an endo and he claimed that running a nolva/clomid pct wouldn't help me at this point because my thyroid and pituitary glands are functioning normally according to my bloodwork. I ran a 6 week pct (nolva 60 60 40 40 20 20) along with 10,000 iu of hcg after the cycle. I question the legitimacy of the nolva... anyway I also realized that I have a bad case of adrenal fatigue from over training and am now getting proper rest and not doing fasted cardio and long amounts of cardio every day. The adrenal fatigue was obviously effecting my test recovery, but not to the point where my test would be at 58 many months after finishing the cycle. Anyway, I am now running an 8 week clomid and nolva cycle along with aromasin because that is what I have been advised, but want to know your guy's opinion. need to get my test back. thanks for the help


VITAMIN D, 25-OH, TOTAL

39 ng/mL

30-100

VITAMIN D, 25-OH, D3

39 ng/mL

See Below

VITAMIN D, 25-OH, D2

<4 ng/mL

See Below

Test: TESTOSTERONE,FR(DIALYSIS) AND TOTAL(LC/MS/MS)

Test: HEMOGLOBIN A1c

Test: PSA (FREE AND TOTAL)

Test: T3, FREE

Test: SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN

Test: ESTRADIOL

Test: VITAMIN B12

Test: TSH

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, LC/MS/MS

58 ng/dL

250-1100

Below low normal

FREE TESTOSTERONE

9.5 pg/mL

35.0-155.0

Below low normal

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

HEMOGLOBIN A1c

5.1 % of total Hgb

<5.7

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE

RESULT COMMENTS

PSA, TOTAL

0.2 ng/mL

< OR = 4.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

PSA, FREE

0.1 ng/mL

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

PSA, % FREE

50 % (calc)

>25

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE

RESULT COMMENTS

T3, FREE

2.1 pg/mL

3.0-4.7

Below low normal

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RESULT COMMENTS RANGE

SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN

15 nmol/L

10-50

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT

STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

ESTRADIOL

19 pg/mL

< OR = 39

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

VITAMIN B12

831 pg/mL

200-1100

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

TSH

1.36 mIU/L

0.50-4.30

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

Test: T4 (THYROXINE), TOTAL

Test: T4, FREE

Test: T3, TOTAL

Test: PROLACTIN

Test: LH

Test: FERRITIN

Test: DHEA SULFATE

Test: CARDIO IQ(R) HS CRP

Test: CARDIO IQ(R) HOMOCYSTEINE

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT

STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

T4 (THYROXINE), TOTAL

5.6 mcg/dL

4.5-12.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

T4, FREE

0.9 ng/dL

0.8-1.4

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

T3, TOTAL

53 ng/dL

86-192

Below low normal

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE

RESULT COMMENTS

PROLACTIN

9.3 ng/mL

2.0-18.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

LH

3.9 mIU/mL

1.5-9.3

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

FERRITIN

380 ng/mL

11-172

Above high normal

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE

RESULT COMMENTS

DHEA SULFATE

320 mcg/dL

24-537

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

HS CRP

0.2 mg/L

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT

STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

HOMOCYSTEINE

5.6 umol/L

<11.4

Test: CBC (INCLUDES DIFF/PLT)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RESULT COMMENTS RANGE

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT

7.8 Thousand/uL

3.8-10.8

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

RED BLOOD CELL COUNT

4.72 Million/uL

4.20-5.80

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

HEMOGLOBIN

13.8 g/dL

13.2-17.1

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

HEMATOCRIT

42.2 %

38.5-50.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

MCV

89.4 fL

80.0-100.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

MCH

29.2 pg

27.0-33.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

MCHC

32.7 g/dL

32.0-36.0

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

RDW

15.7 %

11.0-15.0

Above high normal

PLATELET COUNT

174 Thousand/uL

140-400

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

MPV

12.5 fL

7.5-12.5

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS

5881 cells/uL

1500-7800

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES

1466 cells/uL

850-3900

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES

390 cells/uL

200-950

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS

31 cells/uL

15-500

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS

31 cells/uL

0-200

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

NEUTROPHILS

75.4 %

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

LYMPHOCYTES

18.8 %

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

MONOCYTES

5.0 %

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

EOSINOPHILS

0.4 %

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

BASOPHILS

0.4 %

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

Test: T3 REVERSE, LC/MS/MS

Test: COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

T3 REVERSE, LC/MS/MS

14 ng/dL

8-25

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RESULT COMMENTS RANGE

GLUCOSE

84 mg/dL

65-99

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

UREA NITROGEN (BUN)

49 mg/dL

7-20

Above high normal

CREATININE

1.17 mg/dL

0.60-1.26

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN

90 mL/min/1.73m2

> OR = 60

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN

104 mL/min/1.73m2

> OR = 60

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

BUN/CREATININE RATIO

42 (calc)

6-22

Above high normal

SODIUM

139 mmol/L

135-146

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

POTASSIUM

4.4 mmol/L

3.8-5.1

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

CHLORIDE

102 mmol/L

98-110

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

CARBON DIOXIDE

30 mmol/L

20-31

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

CALCIUM

9.6 mg/dL

8.9-10.4

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

PROTEIN, TOTAL

6.3 g/dL

6.3-8.2

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ALBUMIN

4.6 g/dL

3.6-5.1

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

GLOBULIN

1.7 g/dL (calc)

2.1-3.5

Below low normal

ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO

2.7 (calc)

1.0-2.5

Above high normal

BILIRUBIN, TOTAL

0.6 mg/dL

0.2-1.1

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE

75 U/L

48-230

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

AST

47 U/L

12-32

Above high normal

ALT

46 U/L

8-46

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

Test: LD

Test: GGT

Test: THYROID PEROXIDASE AND THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

Test: THYROID PEROXIDASE AND THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

LD

195 U/L

100-220

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR RESULT STANDARD RANGE RESULT COMMENTS

GGT

24 U/L

9-31

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR STANDARD RESULT RANGE

RESULT COMMENTS

THYROID PEROXIDASE ANTIBODIES

4 IU/mL

<9

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

TEST COMPONENT YOUR STANDARD RESULT COMMENTS RESULT RANGE

THYROGLOBULIN ANTIBODIES

<1 IU/mL

< or = 1

Normal (applies to non-numeric results)

 

[jJjburton]

Who gave you advice for nolva and clomid? How old are you? TRT?

 

[Apexvallen]

Hmm, you really haven't recovered at all from that cycle. Its unlikely but totally possible that you've significantly damaged your HPTA permanently. Its a risk we all take from the first pin to the last. Sometimes the body just doesn't bounce back for whatever reason. I like the idea of a long PCT to see if you can start everything back up. HCG + clomid + nolva is perfect. Spend the money and get pharm in my opinion. Wait 2 months after your PCT, get more bloods. If its better, wait another two and get bloods again. If you are happy with your test levels then maybe walk away from this whole thing lesson learned.

Otherwise, it looks like TRT might be an option. Which may end up being the best thing depending on your goals. It does affect fertility of course so take all that into consideration.

 

[Jeffg353]

10,000 iu of hcg is that a single dose or spread out over a few weeks? Ur t3 is low did doc mention any possible thyroid issues? I'm no Dr just bouncing some ideas off u.

 

[2legit2quit]

Not encouraging reading for us BnCers. Repeating the PCT is the right course of action - bloodwork during this time (up to a couple of months afterwards) will largely be useless for gauging recovery, if you're not already aware.

TRT as a last resort is a good recommendation, either guided or self-administered. You're of an age where that's a smart choice regardless.

Did you get bloods before the cycle?

 

[Vaneers1]

Not encouraging reading for us BnCers. Repeating the PCT is the right course of action - bloodwork during this time (up to a couple of months afterwards) will largely be useless for gauging recovery, if you're not already aware.

TRT as a last resort is a good recommendation, either guided or self-administered. You're of an age where that's a smart choice regardless.

Did you get bloods before the cycle?

I did not get bloods before the cycle, but did my libido and well being was normal so I'm assuming so was my test levels. I am 20 years old and definitely do not want to go down the path of TRT. My endo initially gave prescribed me 2500 units of HCG 3 times a week for 3.5 weeks, and after completing that process my test only raised by 20.


One thing I must state is I think that my overtraining and not letting my body properly rest could have a huge effect on my test recovery. For example, when I stopped doing an hour of fasted cardio, I stopped feeling very weak in the gym and stopped feeling very tired at night. I am just curious as to the relationship between my over training and test production. Currently 6 days in to Nolva and Clomid (40/50) a day but have not felt any different yet.


Thanks for your help and if you know any other recommendations that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Vaneers1]

Hmm, you really haven't recovered at all from that cycle. Its unlikely but totally possible that you've significantly damaged your HPTA permanently. Its a risk we all take from the first pin to the last. Sometimes the body just doesn't bounce back for whatever reason. I like the idea of a long PCT to see if you can start everything back up. HCG + clomid + nolva is perfect. Spend the money and get pharm in my opinion. Wait 2 months after your PCT, get more bloods. If its better, wait another two and get bloods again. If you are happy with your test levels then maybe walk away from this whole thing lesson learned.

Otherwise, it looks like TRT might be an option. Which may end up being the best thing depending on your goals. It does affect fertility of course so take all that into consideration.

I did not get bloods before the cycle, but did my libido and well being was normal so I'm assuming so was my test levels. I am 20 years old and definitely do not want to go down the path of TRT. My endo initially gave prescribed me 2500 units of HCG 3 times a week for 3.5 weeks, and after completing that process my test only raised by 20.


One thing I must state is I think that my overtraining and not letting my body properly rest could have a huge effect on my test recovery. For example, when I stopped doing an hour of fasted cardio, I stopped feeling very weak in the gym and stopped feeling very tired at night. I am just curious as to the relationship between my over training and test production. Currently 6 days in to Nolva and Clomid (40/50) a day but have not felt any different yet.


Thanks for your help and if you know any other recommendations that would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Vaneers1]

Who gave you advice for nolva and clomid? How old are you? TRT?

Many people have through online forums along with Dylan Gemelli who I trust as a valuable source...

 

[Vaneers1]

10,000 iu of hcg is that a single dose or spread out over a few weeks? Ur t3 is low did doc mention any possible thyroid issues? I'm no Dr just bouncing some ideas off u.

Over a few weeks and no my doc actually said I do not have any thyroid problems and that is the reason why he didn't prescribe me a PCT of any sort and went with HCG. My worry is that if HCG didn't recover me, does that mean I can't bounce back?

 

[jJjburton]

Many people have through online forums along with Dylan Gemelli who I trust as a valuable source...

Yea BROOOOO Hes a good source to follow, hes freaking jacked too.

Know wonder why your all fucked up, your following the wrong people. What you are doing obviously aint working. So stop fucking with it. Do some TRT.

 

[jJjburton]

Many people have through online forums along with Dylan Gemelli who I trust as a valuable source...

Going to post this up again for people to see. Is this a joke?

 

[Jeffg353]

Over a few weeks and no my doc actually said I do not have any thyroid problems and that is the reason why he didn't prescribe me a PCT of any sort and went with HCG. My worry is that if HCG didn't recover me, does that mean I can't bounce back?

While hcg can help produce even kick start natural test production it can still keep u shut down.

 

[2legit2quit]

Yes. hCG prior to PCT, not during.

You're using pharma Clomiphene/Tamoxifen now, right?

 

[Alex.stmpnk]

I have read that the "POWER PCT" by Dr Scally is. Dry effective in desperate cases like yours; you should investigate that

 

[Vaneers1]

Going to post this up again for people to see. Is this a joke?

Look I know he isn't the best source to follow, but it isn't just him its nearly everyone I have talked to. Going on TRT at the age of 20 makes zero sense.

 

[Vaneers1]

While hcg can help produce even kick start natural test production it can still keep u shut down.

Yes and I understood that going into it. Figured I would listen to my endo and trust a doctor in this situation. We will see what this 8 week nolva clomid aromasin pct does for me. thanks for your input

 

[Vaneers1]

Yes. hCG prior to PCT, not during.

You're using pharma Clomiphene/Tamoxifen now, right?

Yes, right now I'm on nolvadex of 40 a day (my clomid should arrive any day now) and have been on that for 4 days. Feeling some of the sides of nolva so I know my stuff is legit. Not feeling any different in terms of higher test but obviously 4 days is far to minimum. My plan is to run them for 8 weeks. Should I get bloodwork done after week 4 to make sure the pct is working?

 

[Vaneers1]

I have read that the "POWER PCT" by Dr Scally is. Dry effective in desperate cases like yours; you should investigate that

Thanks for your input. I just looked into it and the protocol was
Day 1-30 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day) ; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day).

I am no expert on PCT but thing that 100 mg of clomid per day is far too high. Can anyone verify or offer their input on this protocol?

 

[Alex.stmpnk]

Thanks for your input. I just looked into it and the protocol was
Day 1-30 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day) ; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : Nolva 40mg/day (20mg was taken twice per day).

I am no expert on PCT but thing that 100 mg of clomid per day is far too high. Can anyone verify or offer their input on this protocol?

Maybe you would want to investigate again; if I remember correctly power PCT also involved HCG as well

 

[2legit2quit]

Yes, right now I'm on nolvadex of 40 a day (my clomid should arrive any day now) and have been on that for 4 days. Feeling some of the sides of nolva so I know my stuff is legit. Not feeling any different in terms of higher test but obviously 4 days is far to minimum. My plan is to run them for 8 weeks. Should I get bloodwork done after week 4 to make sure the pct is working?

Running them low and long is a perfectly viable approach too (25/20mg, 8+ weeks). Bloodwork could show it's working if you've a baseline to compare to. I assume your doctor is on top of this.

Do not run clomiphene over 50mg/day.

Assuming your first PCT was with bunk/underdosed medication, you'll very likely see a good improvement. However, you should be prepared for the possibility that you won't recover to the degree you hope. Cycling steroids at your age, before the HPTA has fully developed, can and will affect your chances.