Helping a 350lb friend

[onlyontrt]

I am not a coach or a trainer so I come to Meso for some advice for a friend of mine.

He is approximately 350 lbs and has never touched a needle (as he shouldn't) but just started working out with me as he has decided to change his life. He asked me a question i wasn't to sure how to answer.

He has been lifting weights with me and getting stronger as his lifts are going up but he is wondering if it is even worth it for him to preserve muscle at this weight. For me the easy answer is yes but he made a good point in saying, no matter how strong he gets right now. He is still unhealthy and wont be able to see the muscle he is putting on which is making him lose weight lifting motivation. He asked if it is better for him to just focus on diet and cardio to get as much weight off as possible. When he is at a healthy bf% get on a cycle or TRT and theoretically as a somewhat new lifter, he will be able to put most of the muscle he lost back on in a cycle or two. I don't know what his bf% is but he can't even lift two plates right now so I am assuming his lean body mass is pretty low.

Also I want to add that I have explained to him losing fat and weight on the scale can be different. But once again I couldn't fight back at him saying yes but at 350 it doesn't really matter and that is a better argument at 250.

 

[Ghoul]

Get your friend on a GLP before that weight kills him. Show him how to maximize protein, some light cardio, and whatever easy weight training he can handle. Even if it's not much of a workout, he'll be weak until his body adjusts to the lower calorie intake, it'll preserve much of the substantial muscle that's developed to move that weight around and get him into the habit.

Talk about how great he'll feel when he's dropped 100lbs and you get him on TRT. It's important to give him something to look forward to.

 

[Slowww]

If he is a new lifter 250 is still going to be WAY too fat for him to even consider enhancement for a long time. It’s not hard to do diet, cardio and some lifting. if he’s both fat and weak it’s probably better to do both, if lifting isn’t for aesthetics it can be for quality of life at that weight, and so that he has a good foundation (of knowledge and experience) to begin getting better at a lower body fat percentage. Also his proportions and so on will change even if he is lifting and fat as he loses weight. Nothing happens over night. He needs to understand putting on muscle is a time consuming and painstaking process whether fat or not.

 

[Ghoul]

I am not a coach or a trainer so I come to Meso for some advice for a friend of mine.

He is approximately 350 lbs and has never touched a needle (as he shouldn't) but just started working out with me as he has decided to change his life. He asked me a question i wasn't to sure how to answer.

He has been lifting weights with me and getting stronger as his lifts are going up but he is wondering if it is even worth it for him to preserve muscle at this weight. For me the easy answer is yes but he made a good point in saying, no matter how strong he gets right now. He is still unhealthy and wont be able to see the muscle he is putting on which is making him lose weight lifting motivation. He asked if it is better for him to just focus on diet and cardio to get as much weight off as possible. When he is at a healthy bf% get on a cycle or TRT and theoretically as a somewhat new lifter, he will be able to put most of the muscle he lost back on in a cycle or two. I don't know what his bf% is but he can't even lift two plates right now so I am assuming his lean body mass is pretty low.

Also I want to add that I have explained to him losing fat and weight on the scale can be different. But once again I couldn't fight back at him saying yes but at 350 it doesn't really matter and that is a better argument at 250.

Sometimes I get so steeped in the gym ape mindset here I forget the basics.

If you can, have him get his levels checked. Obese men are often hypogonadal, and if he is, the science is clear that (real) TRT helps reduce weight and improve body composition. It's a really good combo with a GLP imo. Aromatization will still likely have to managed even at physiological levels until he gets leaner.

Testosterone and weight loss: the evidence

The purpose of this article is to examine the contemporary data linking testosterone therapy in overweight and obese men with testosterone deficiency to increased lean body mass, decreased fat mass, improvement in overall body composition and sustained ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[onlyontrt]

Sometimes I get so steeped in the gym ape mindset here I forget the basics.

If you can, have him get his levels checked. Obese men are often hypogonadal, and the if he is, the science is clear that (real) TRT helps reduce weight and improve body composition. It's a really good combo with a GLP imo. Aromatization will still likely have to managed even at physiological levels until he gets leaner.

Testosterone and weight loss: the evidence

The purpose of this article is to examine the contemporary data linking testosterone therapy in overweight and obese men with testosterone deficiency to increased lean body mass, decreased fat mass, improvement in overall body composition and sustained ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for your input! It is great as always.

I think I am going to give him some of my tirz from the last qsc groupbuy. I was preparing for the apocalypse but really 10 vials of 50mg I can spare some. I have trt from a compound pharmacy but it’s extremely expensive.
Maybe I plug him with some UGL and tell him what doses to take to get him started? Primaries are usually reluctant to prescribe trt.

The only reason I have some from compound is because I travel a lot for work when I’m not working from home I’m on a plane. So I want something with my name on it just in case.

 

[onlyontrt]

If he is a new lifter 250 is still going to be WAY too fat for him to even consider enhancement for a long time. It’s not hard to do diet, cardio and some lifting. if he’s both fat and weak it’s probably better to do both, if lifting isn’t for aesthetics it can be for quality of life at that weight, and so that he has a good foundation (of knowledge and experience) to begin getting better at a lower body fat percentage. Also his proportions and so on will change even if he is lifting and fat as he loses weight. Nothing happens over night. He needs to understand putting on muscle is a time consuming and painstaking process whether fat or not.

Thanks for the advice. You’re right I think the biggest thing to get through to him is it will take time. Maybe a bunch of small goals.

 

[Dozerpush1437]

I’m new here, but I’d like to chime in with my recent experience. In October of 2023 I was prescribed semaglutide. When I took my first dose I was 390 pounds. As of today I am 271 pounds. In the early stages all I did was cardio. I probably lost muscle mass. In May I started weight training 3 days a week in addition to the cardio 5-6 days a week. The weight training has really kicked this up a notch for me. I maintain a 500-700 calorie deficit every day. I eat 220ish grams of protein a day. I do a simple linear progression weight program. Steady state incline treadmill walking for cardio. I look different, I feel different. I totally recommend the GLP-1 in combination with weights, cardio, and a good diet. It’s changed my life.

 

[Slowww]

Thanks for the advice. You’re right I think the biggest thing to get through to him is it will take time. Maybe a bunch of small goals.

Definitely, I think the main thing he needs to learn is patience. You don’t want to lose weight too fast, and you can preserve a lot of muscle just by not rushing, and really make huge impacts to overall health. Maybe he can try and think of it with this in mind. You want to get healthy, so lose weight in a healthy way, not just killing yourself with cardio in an unhealthy way. a lot of guys with high body fat severely overestimate how much muscle they actually have, and are surprised by how well a controlled well paced LONG diet with lifting keeps the lean tissue on naturally.

Certainly set small goals, first daily, then weekly and monthly. hit those first and then adjust. Keep the big picture in mind, but focus on the little wins and beating the every day challenges!

 

[bigforyouben]

In September of last year I started Tirz at 280. I got a Dexa scan shortly after that showed 40% BF. I also tested low T so in December I started TRT. I really only did the treadmill until I felt like I needed more, and started lifting and a lot of hot yoga in February. A month ago, at 200 pounds, I got another Dexa scan at 20%. I don't have the exact numbers for the two scans in front of me, but they showed an increase in LBM.

So I'd say for your friend, get on a glp1 right away, do TRT if the bloodwork indicates it, and work out as much as is safe for him. And find a cheap place to do a Dexa scan for some extra confirmation.

 

[Dozerpush1437]

Definitely, I think the main thing he needs to learn is patience. You don’t want to lose weight too fast, and you can preserve a lot of muscle just by not rushing, and really make huge impacts to overall health. Maybe he can try and think of it with this in mind. You want to get healthy, so lose weight in a healthy way, not just killing yourself with cardio in an unhealthy way. a lot of guys with high body fat severely overestimate how much muscle they actually have, and are surprised by how well a controlled well paced LONG diet with lifting keeps the lean tissue on naturally.

Certainly set small goals, first daily, then weekly and monthly. hit those first and then adjust. Keep the big picture in mind, but focus on the little wins and beating the every day challenges!

I agree with this. I went into too extreme of a calorie deficit early on. If I could go back I would eat more protein, worry less about the scale and more about how I feel, and start lifting sooner.

 

[Slowww]

I agree with this. I went into too extreme of a calorie deficit early on. If I could go back I would eat more protein, worry less about the scale and more about how I feel, and start lifting sooner.

Same, I used to do pretty intense cardio for weight cuts before I started lifting (10km runs per day, with boxing training 2x a day, minimal carbs compared to caloric expenditure)
I was much hungrier, weaker, seemed to be more prone to injury during training. For general health small incremental calorie changes/cardio are definitely superior and are gonna be more manageable for a guy who isn’t an athlete or has a history with sports or competition