Helping a 350lb friend

[onlyontrt]

I am not a coach or a trainer so I come to Meso for some advice for a friend of mine.

He is approximately 350 lbs and has never touched a needle (as he shouldn't) but just started working out with me as he has decided to change his life. He asked me a question i wasn't to sure how to answer.

He has been lifting weights with me and getting stronger as his lifts are going up but he is wondering if it is even worth it for him to preserve muscle at this weight. For me the easy answer is yes but he made a good point in saying, no matter how strong he gets right now. He is still unhealthy and wont be able to see the muscle he is putting on which is making him lose weight lifting motivation. He asked if it is better for him to just focus on diet and cardio to get as much weight off as possible. When he is at a healthy bf% get on a cycle or TRT and theoretically as a somewhat new lifter, he will be able to put most of the muscle he lost back on in a cycle or two. I don't know what his bf% is but he can't even lift two plates right now so I am assuming his lean body mass is pretty low.

Also I want to add that I have explained to him losing fat and weight on the scale can be different. But once again I couldn't fight back at him saying yes but at 350 it doesn't really matter and that is a better argument at 250.

 

[Ghoul]

Get your friend on a GLP before that weight kills him. Show him how to maximize protein, some light cardio, and whatever easy weight training he can handle. Even if it's not much of a workout, he'll be weak until his body adjusts to the lower calorie intake, it'll preserve much of the substantial muscle that's developed to move that weight around and get him into the habit.

Talk about how great he'll feel when he's dropped 100lbs and you get him on TRT. It's important to give him something to look forward to.

 

[Slowww]

If he is a new lifter 250 is still going to be WAY too fat for him to even consider enhancement for a long time. It’s not hard to do diet, cardio and some lifting. if he’s both fat and weak it’s probably better to do both, if lifting isn’t for aesthetics it can be for quality of life at that weight, and so that he has a good foundation (of knowledge and experience) to begin getting better at a lower body fat percentage. Also his proportions and so on will change even if he is lifting and fat as he loses weight. Nothing happens over night. He needs to understand putting on muscle is a time consuming and painstaking process whether fat or not.

 

[Ghoul]

I am not a coach or a trainer so I come to Meso for some advice for a friend of mine.

He is approximately 350 lbs and has never touched a needle (as he shouldn't) but just started working out with me as he has decided to change his life. He asked me a question i wasn't to sure how to answer.

He has been lifting weights with me and getting stronger as his lifts are going up but he is wondering if it is even worth it for him to preserve muscle at this weight. For me the easy answer is yes but he made a good point in saying, no matter how strong he gets right now. He is still unhealthy and wont be able to see the muscle he is putting on which is making him lose weight lifting motivation. He asked if it is better for him to just focus on diet and cardio to get as much weight off as possible. When he is at a healthy bf% get on a cycle or TRT and theoretically as a somewhat new lifter, he will be able to put most of the muscle he lost back on in a cycle or two. I don't know what his bf% is but he can't even lift two plates right now so I am assuming his lean body mass is pretty low.

Also I want to add that I have explained to him losing fat and weight on the scale can be different. But once again I couldn't fight back at him saying yes but at 350 it doesn't really matter and that is a better argument at 250.

Sometimes I get so steeped in the gym ape mindset here I forget the basics.

If you can, have him get his levels checked. Obese men are often hypogonadal, and if he is, the science is clear that (real) TRT helps reduce weight and improve body composition. It's a really good combo with a GLP imo. Aromatization will still likely have to managed even at physiological levels until he gets leaner.

Testosterone and weight loss: the evidence - PMC

The purpose of this article is to examine the contemporary data linking testosterone therapy in overweight and obese men with testosterone deficiency to increased lean body mass, decreased fat mass, improvement in overall body composition and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[onlyontrt]

Sometimes I get so steeped in the gym ape mindset here I forget the basics.

If you can, have him get his levels checked. Obese men are often hypogonadal, and the if he is, the science is clear that (real) TRT helps reduce weight and improve body composition. It's a really good combo with a GLP imo. Aromatization will still likely have to managed even at physiological levels until he gets leaner.

Testosterone and weight loss: the evidence - PMC

The purpose of this article is to examine the contemporary data linking testosterone therapy in overweight and obese men with testosterone deficiency to increased lean body mass, decreased fat mass, improvement in overall body composition and ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Thanks for your input! It is great as always.

I think I am going to give him some of my tirz from the last qsc groupbuy. I was preparing for the apocalypse but really 10 vials of 50mg I can spare some. I have trt from a compound pharmacy but it’s extremely expensive.
Maybe I plug him with some UGL and tell him what doses to take to get him started? Primaries are usually reluctant to prescribe trt.

The only reason I have some from compound is because I travel a lot for work when I’m not working from home I’m on a plane. So I want something with my name on it just in case.

 

[onlyontrt]

If he is a new lifter 250 is still going to be WAY too fat for him to even consider enhancement for a long time. It’s not hard to do diet, cardio and some lifting. if he’s both fat and weak it’s probably better to do both, if lifting isn’t for aesthetics it can be for quality of life at that weight, and so that he has a good foundation (of knowledge and experience) to begin getting better at a lower body fat percentage. Also his proportions and so on will change even if he is lifting and fat as he loses weight. Nothing happens over night. He needs to understand putting on muscle is a time consuming and painstaking process whether fat or not.

Thanks for the advice. You’re right I think the biggest thing to get through to him is it will take time. Maybe a bunch of small goals.

 

[Dozerpush1437]

I’m new here, but I’d like to chime in with my recent experience. In October of 2023 I was prescribed semaglutide. When I took my first dose I was 390 pounds. As of today I am 271 pounds. In the early stages all I did was cardio. I probably lost muscle mass. In May I started weight training 3 days a week in addition to the cardio 5-6 days a week. The weight training has really kicked this up a notch for me. I maintain a 500-700 calorie deficit every day. I eat 220ish grams of protein a day. I do a simple linear progression weight program. Steady state incline treadmill walking for cardio. I look different, I feel different. I totally recommend the GLP-1 in combination with weights, cardio, and a good diet. It’s changed my life.

 

[Slowww]

Thanks for the advice. You’re right I think the biggest thing to get through to him is it will take time. Maybe a bunch of small goals.

Definitely, I think the main thing he needs to learn is patience. You don’t want to lose weight too fast, and you can preserve a lot of muscle just by not rushing, and really make huge impacts to overall health. Maybe he can try and think of it with this in mind. You want to get healthy, so lose weight in a healthy way, not just killing yourself with cardio in an unhealthy way. a lot of guys with high body fat severely overestimate how much muscle they actually have, and are surprised by how well a controlled well paced LONG diet with lifting keeps the lean tissue on naturally.

Certainly set small goals, first daily, then weekly and monthly. hit those first and then adjust. Keep the big picture in mind, but focus on the little wins and beating the every day challenges!

 

[bigforyouben]

In September of last year I started Tirz at 280. I got a Dexa scan shortly after that showed 40% BF. I also tested low T so in December I started TRT. I really only did the treadmill until I felt like I needed more, and started lifting and a lot of hot yoga in February. A month ago, at 200 pounds, I got another Dexa scan at 20%. I don't have the exact numbers for the two scans in front of me, but they showed an increase in LBM.

So I'd say for your friend, get on a glp1 right away, do TRT if the bloodwork indicates it, and work out as much as is safe for him. And find a cheap place to do a Dexa scan for some extra confirmation.

 

[Dozerpush1437]

Definitely, I think the main thing he needs to learn is patience. You don’t want to lose weight too fast, and you can preserve a lot of muscle just by not rushing, and really make huge impacts to overall health. Maybe he can try and think of it with this in mind. You want to get healthy, so lose weight in a healthy way, not just killing yourself with cardio in an unhealthy way. a lot of guys with high body fat severely overestimate how much muscle they actually have, and are surprised by how well a controlled well paced LONG diet with lifting keeps the lean tissue on naturally.

Certainly set small goals, first daily, then weekly and monthly. hit those first and then adjust. Keep the big picture in mind, but focus on the little wins and beating the every day challenges!

I agree with this. I went into too extreme of a calorie deficit early on. If I could go back I would eat more protein, worry less about the scale and more about how I feel, and start lifting sooner.

 

[Slowww]

I agree with this. I went into too extreme of a calorie deficit early on. If I could go back I would eat more protein, worry less about the scale and more about how I feel, and start lifting sooner.

Same, I used to do pretty intense cardio for weight cuts before I started lifting (10km runs per day, with boxing training 2x a day, minimal carbs compared to caloric expenditure)
I was much hungrier, weaker, seemed to be more prone to injury during training. For general health small incremental calorie changes/cardio are definitely superior and are gonna be more manageable for a guy who isn’t an athlete or has a history with sports or competition

 

[onlyontrt]

I’m new here, but I’d like to chime in with my recent experience. In October of 2023 I was prescribed semaglutide. When I took my first dose I was 390 pounds. As of today I am 271 pounds. In the early stages all I did was cardio. I probably lost muscle mass. In May I started weight training 3 days a week in addition to the cardio 5-6 days a week. The weight training has really kicked this up a notch for me. I maintain a 500-700 calorie deficit every day. I eat 220ish grams of protein a day. I do a simple linear progression weight program. Steady state incline treadmill walking for cardio. I look different, I feel different. I totally recommend the GLP-1 in combination with weights, cardio, and a good diet. It’s changed my life.

Wow 120 pounds in less than a year is amazing. Keep up the good work!

 

[Dozerpush1437]

Wow 120 pounds in less than a year is amazing. Keep up the good work!

Thank you! I didn’t think I could do it. It’s still hard to believe. I know what your friend is going through. Don’t let him talk himself out of strength training. He will be far more successful, and happy, if he’s using all the tools available to us.

 

[UncleBuns]

Continue resistance training, do LISS do cardio everyday or as many days as possible, Use an online tool to ballpark ideal body weight and eat 1 G of protein per pound of ideal body weight. Everyday, reduce calories to a deficit. I would just tell him to do all of that and keep doing it. Resistance training, LISS, and reasonable calorie deficit are all he needs. When you are that overweight you can actually lose fat and build muscle at the same time without any drug use. Make sure that he does not under eat protein. The calorie reduction should never be from protein.

Also keep reminding him that slow and steady wins the race. Celebrate small victories and each bit of weight loss each week and month. If he is willing to keeping a journal can be very helpful. Track calories, macros, strength training and cardio. It's nice as a reference over time to see your progress and to improve upon it. Photographs can be very motivating. Have him take photos now and every every month or two. It can be very satisfying and motivating to see the changes in photos over time.

 

[Astartes]

I am not a coach or a trainer so I come to Meso for some advice for a friend of mine.

He is approximately 350 lbs and has never touched a needle (as he shouldn't) but just started working out with me as he has decided to change his life. He asked me a question i wasn't to sure how to answer.

He has been lifting weights with me and getting stronger as his lifts are going up but he is wondering if it is even worth it for him to preserve muscle at this weight. For me the easy answer is yes but he made a good point in saying, no matter how strong he gets right now. He is still unhealthy and wont be able to see the muscle he is putting on which is making him lose weight lifting motivation. He asked if it is better for him to just focus on diet and cardio to get as much weight off as possible. When he is at a healthy bf% get on a cycle or TRT and theoretically as a somewhat new lifter, he will be able to put most of the muscle he lost back on in a cycle or two. I don't know what his bf% is but he can't even lift two plates right now so I am assuming his lean body mass is pretty low.

Also I want to add that I have explained to him losing fat and weight on the scale can be different. But once again I couldn't fight back at him saying yes but at 350 it doesn't really matter and that is a better argument at 250.

Here is the short down and dirty:

#1 Year Target (No crash changes)
#2 Eat in a 750 Cal deficit
#3 Focus on Cardio/Diet
#4 Don’t exclude Resistance!

He will keep 75-80# muscle mass.
Gradually lose weight over the year.
Allow hormone (natural) levels to stabilize.
Insulin resistance to rectify/Improve.
Resolve most other significant imbalances.
Change bad life habits and make new ones

 

[dbbporter]

I ran across an analogy that may help him visualize his journey. His weight loss will be like a paper towel roll. One sheet at a time. Its hard to see the immediate impact he is making by slowly removing the sheets, but its happening. Reducing slowly. Every little bit of fat loss is one sheet gone. Keep at it and after a while he'll notice that that roll is already half gone.

Now to get there, getting him on tirzepatide he will understand what "food noise" is. He will begin to recognize that he doesn't need to feed the constant cravings and will start to avoid over eating and go into a calorie deficit. Tirz may also give him cravings for more protein. Which he should absolutely look to consume 200g+ per day. Combine that with strength training, he may avoid the muscle loss that he could experience with dropping a bunch of weight and find that he can recomp. He may get discourage if he can't see his muscle gains right away under all the fat, but that inside paper towel cardboard roll is getting larger while the paper sheets are getting smaller. The muscle definition will eventually come out. Keep up the heavy lifting.

 

[Anabolicbanana]

Getting back to the basics (IMO):
depending on the guy's height lets say 200lbs at 15% BF is a reasonable goal
200g protein daily
500 calories daily deficit
all whole foods nothing processed
30 minutes walking on incline treadmill at 3mph fasted cardio
compound movements 3x a week
it'll take time but it works

How a lot of us here would like to do it since we like drugs
(all of the above) plus:
tirzepatide start low titrate up until he can do the 500 calorie deficit easily without too much side effects
TRT split into daily sub q administrations to reduce aromatization, again start low and increase
HCG 250-300iu m-w-f
Ai's as needed for estrogen
dhea/pregnenolone as needed per bloodwork

optional:
2iu GH before bed or pre fasted cardio or split between the 2 after cancer marker blood screening (just to be safe)
Mirabegron 100 mg split morning and afternoon? waiting on Steve's deep dive still