Here it comes, fuel crisis is going to cascade to other sectors

[cirikili]

Difficult for sure, as poor people have a bad perception. If they only realized that they basically get a free ride when it comes to tazes and social services. The rich pay for damn near everything.

This ends up being another progressive system, but how bout 15% for those making 100k+ and 12% for those under $100k?

Well put.The vast majority of people do not have a clue when it comes to taxes.For instance,I recieved $2479 in a refund check this year and most of my friends and family think that I am very lucky....but they do not understand that I paid over $41k in taxes this year so this really does not account for much.

 

[Grizzly]

This is a difficult problem, no?

Only if you're a politician. I can solve that problem right now. "Shut the fuck up, you sniveling little bitches. Work a little harder, longer or find a higher paying job. In fact, go to school if you're so concerned about your low wages."

See? That was easy. Grizzly for Emperor, Grizzly for Emperor! Come on people, keep the chant going.

 

[Hogg]

This ends up being another progressive system, but how bout 15% for those making 100k+ and 12% for those under $100k?

15% on your 100K plus wage earners is not enough sorta just by looking at the example that I set above.

Lets take an arbitary case. If you made 100K and paid $ 15K, and another fellow makes $ 40K and pays $ 4800, then the government will not have enough capital to operate.

If you compare it to the current system, a single income, non-married wage earner with no dependents who makes roughly $ 100K will pay $ 38000 in taxes or somewhere thereabouts. Now 1 person is paying more in taxes than a 7 of the typical families that I mentioned in my example and the $ 40K per year multi-dependent case is certainly not too far off where i live. So while your percentages work for the lower paid folks, the percentage is way too low for the higher wage earners because the tax stream will be bleak. They will never let it happen.

legislators in California have proposed raising the state income tax level to 11.3% for incomes over $ 280K. A very easy extrapolation of this is, they will cascade the 2% across the tax brackets below 280 because in truth, this is where the meat of the tax system is. It is not uncommon out here to see joint tax filings of $ 250K or more per household....and these folks are far from rich at that level of earnings.

 

[Mark Kerr]

Grizzly for Emperor! Grizzly for Emperor! Grizzly for Emperor!

 

[Bob Smith]

Hogg, I disagree with you. If you look at the IRS numbers after deductions are taken by the different income groups, you will see that people making 6-figures and more average out to paying 15-17%. Deductions are a big freakin deal. So the tax bracket might me 36%, but in reality it averages to 15-17%. In the end, the revenue would be the same, it would just make filing taxes a hell of a lot easier.

 

[Hogg]

Hogg, I disagree with you. If you look at the IRS numbers after deductions are taken by the different income groups, you will see that people making 6-figures and more average out to paying 15-17%. Deductions are a big freakin deal. So the tax bracket might me 36%, but in reality it averages to 15-17%. In the end, the revenue would be the same, it would just make filing taxes a hell of a lot easier.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. The tax paid vs. gross income, not AGI is rougly 15-17% then right? Ok, I'll buy into that if you're not going to allow any write-offs with the flat tax but then, the single income, head of household with 4 dependents family will lose their write-offs too....so I wonder if, hmmm, this is an interesting topic....no wonder they cant get the flat tax through congress; there are a lot of variables.

If there were no write-offs, then its not worth taking on big interest payments - ie, the higher wage earners buying more expensive houses to offset their income. I wonder what that would do to the banking industry. There would be little reason to float paper, you would increase your principal payments and pay it off to thus enjoy more discretionary income later on.....it seems like it would be a great thing but I wonder how it would effect our economy for the higher wage earners to have more capital available. I wonder if it would further inflate real estate prices and the like.

 

[viking69]

Hogg, I disagree with you. If you look at the IRS numbers after deductions are taken by the different income groups, you will see that people making 6-figures and more average out to paying 15-17%. Deductions are a big freakin deal. So the tax bracket might me 36%, but in reality it averages to 15-17%. In the end, the revenue would be the same, it would just make filing taxes a hell of a lot easier.

Well, I think a flat tax of 10-15% would be great,,,IF EVERYONE PAID that amount. No deductions, loopholes or excuses. Early 90's elections had a candidate that proposed this. I bet it would work fine IMO>

 

[Bob Smith]

Ross Perot was pushing a flat tax.

 

[Hogg]

Ross Perot is a great american.

 

[Bob Smith]

Its been ages since Ive looked into his stance on things and I was certainly too young to really care 10 or 12 years ago. From the little that I know about him, he started a business, grew it into a huge player and has amassed a major fortune along the way. To me that sounds like a good guy.

 

[Hogg]

EDS is the company.

 

[Bob Smith]

I remembered that part.

Is/was he in oil or any other major businesses?

 

[Hogg]

You might find this interesting.

http://www.famoustexans.com/rossperot.htm

 

[Bob Smith]

"Perot was known to drive a ten-year-old Oldsmobile."

 

[bigcaboi]

You know I feel the concept of TAXATION as a whole is flawed untill we stop the rampage of Government spending and waste! I really doubt our founding fathers intended Tax's to be wasted! I believe one of the reason we became the US was our oppostion to "taxation without representation". I feel if we continue on our course a civil revolt will take place in some fashion.

 

[Bob Smith]

I doubt there will ever be a civil revolt. I was just looking at some historic numbers this afternoon. Under JFK, the top marginal tax bracket was 91%. 91 f*cking percent!! Thats a hell of a change considering that income taxes werent made permanent until, IIRC, 1914. Before then, they were only temporary and usually in times of war.

As you said, caboi, spending needs to be taken under control. Programs, or whole departments, need to be axed, welfare needs to be totally reformed, lazy people taken off social security (SSI), a reduction or elimination of foreign gifts.

 

[bigcaboi]

I doubt there will ever be a civil revolt. I was just looking at some historic numbers this afternoon. Under JFK, the top marginal tax bracket was 91%. 91 f*cking percent!! Thats a hell of a change considering that income taxes werent made permanent until, IIRC, 1914. Before then, they were only temporary and usually in times of war.

As you said, caboi, spending needs to be taken under control. Programs, or whole departments, need to be axed, welfare needs to be totally reformed, lazy people taken off social security (SSI), a reduction or elimination of foreign gifts.

I really think the revolt will happen not as we think revolt but in some other way. I mean who would of thought A Pro Wrestler would hold a public office. Or better yet a 6 time Mr Olympia Imigrant with broken english would run the WORLDS 5th largest economy?

The day is comming when the little voices will unite and be the MAJORITY

 

[Bob Smith]

That "wrestler" was also a Navy Seal and mayor before becoming governor.

Mr Olympia is also an incredibly successful businessman.

 

[Mark Kerr]

91%? WTF!?!?! That CANT be right, can it?

 

[bigcaboi]

That "wrestler" was also a Navy Seal and mayor before becoming governor.

Mr Olympia is also an incredibly successful businessman.

YEA but you have to admit "its a fine day when the stereo-type steriod user can be taken for his mind as well as his body. 20 years ago they would have never been able to break into that "boys club" Hell maybe even 10 years ago!