what is up bro's! back in May i herniated my L4 and L5 discs in my lower back. i was 5'11 and a lean 205lbs (8.5% bodyfat). i went through about 2-3 months of physical therapy and my back feels pretty good now. my physical therapist tells me i shouldn't ever deadlift or sqaut again. however, i disagree strongly. i am now 190lbs and it is a bitch trying to put my mass back on w/out doing these two lifts. DOES ANYONE KNOW OF ANY IDEAS OF HW TO PUT MY MASS BACK ON IN THESE TWO AREAS (THIGHS AND BACK). i am also, into powerlifting and this is killing me not performing these lifts. my last competition lifts were deadlift(495lbs), pause-bench (355lbs), and below parralel squats (435lbs). Does anyone think i could achieve these goals again with my past injury? i know i could but would it be a bad idea with the back injury......PLEASE OFFER SOME ADVICE!!!
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herniated discs and squats
- Thread starter getdiesel
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MACHI
New Member
Diesel - How did you herniate your disk? Did your form just collapse or was it an otherwise normal squat that ended bad? Did it happen all at once or was it cumulative....
As I squat heavier and heavier weight I have yet to use a belt but for a couple maxes. My back feels 'funny' sometimes after heavy lifts - can't really tell if its bone or what.... What should I be watching out for?
As I squat heavier and heavier weight I have yet to use a belt but for a couple maxes. My back feels 'funny' sometimes after heavy lifts - can't really tell if its bone or what.... What should I be watching out for?
diesel I've got six bulging disc in my neck, I was told not to deadlift or squat by one doc, but got a second to tell to me I should try. Well a year later I'm squating 405 for reps and 365 for deadlift. I started real light and just let my body get used to it. I no longer have pain in my neck or back and I'm twenty pounds heavier.
Phil Burmese1
New Member
Deisel, I have a herniated disk in L4-L5 which I aquired about three years ago. I was out of the gym for an entire year, I was in really bad shape. Anyhow, now I am feeling mostly better, having both good and bad days. I have been squating again now, I just were a powerlifting belt, and keep my form as tight as possible. To answer your question, just be careful, and only you can tell when you are ready to do those lifts again. As far as deadlifting goes, I tried to get back into that but unfortunatly that was killer on my spine. I hope this helps you out a bit.bfr290 said:
Thank you
thanks for the replies fellas!
- machi, as for your question, i herniated it while i was still doing my light sets. i think i just was not warmed up properly and it was just a freak accident. my advice would be to always make sure your warmed up properly and ALWAYS spend some time on CORE STRENGHT TRAINING. especially the days when you train back and legs.
- machi, as for your question, i herniated it while i was still doing my light sets. i think i just was not warmed up properly and it was just a freak accident. my advice would be to always make sure your warmed up properly and ALWAYS spend some time on CORE STRENGHT TRAINING. especially the days when you train back and legs.
borrachopower
New Member
your neck and back are secondary curves--this means that we :make these curver oourselves"
we are born just with a "kyphotic curve"=fetal position
neck or cervical: we form this "lordotic" curve as infants when we first lift our heads
lower back : wer form this "lordotic" curve we we start to walk.
if you look at an anatomy chart, exagerating your "lordotic curves" actually takes pressure off of the nerve roots. hence, squats seem like a "doable" exercise anatomically ONLY IF you maintain good form. the moment you reverse your lordotic curve(when you bend forward with bad form", you cause the disc';s to bulge posterior and compress nerve roots--this can recreate or mimic the symptomatology of a herniated disc.
we are born just with a "kyphotic curve"=fetal position
neck or cervical: we form this "lordotic" curve as infants when we first lift our heads
lower back : wer form this "lordotic" curve we we start to walk.
if you look at an anatomy chart, exagerating your "lordotic curves" actually takes pressure off of the nerve roots. hence, squats seem like a "doable" exercise anatomically ONLY IF you maintain good form. the moment you reverse your lordotic curve(when you bend forward with bad form", you cause the disc';s to bulge posterior and compress nerve roots--this can recreate or mimic the symptomatology of a herniated disc.
It's really tough to say and really depends on the individual. A large percent of the population, even larger in the athlete and bodybuilding population, are walking around with herniated or bulging discs and don't even know; they can do anything they want and don't feel a thing while others know immediately and it bugs the shit out of them. Where a herniated disc really becomes a problem is when it impinges on the exiting nerve root at that level causing sever localized and radiating pain. If this is what you have I definitely would avoid squats and deads. But if there is no impingement, and you feel better after PT, then I would slowly test your boundaries. Work up slow and don't jump right into the heavy weights. Your body will let you know what it will tolerate and what it won't.
there has never been any rediating pain or nerve pain what so ever. i was definitly lucky in that department. i am actually doing squats know and it feels fine. i am just scared to give it my all. i guess i just have to train my patience right now and take baby steps.
Thanks again for the replies fellas they helped out a lot!
peace out!
diesel (or at least trying to get back to diesel)
Thanks again for the replies fellas they helped out a lot!
peace out!
diesel (or at least trying to get back to diesel)
Ramstein II
New Member
A long time ago I hurt my lower back. Did I herniate a disc? No way to tell without an MRI which I never got. I did leg press for a year. The back healed but I never had the same flexibility. I squated for years with no real problems. I had the occasional flare up from driving for long periods, but no major problems. Then, a few months ago my back "went out" while squating--not heavy, and yes, I use great form. I was irritated by this and laid off the squats. Then, I kept "throwing it out." Nothing major, just annoying stiffness and pulls. Long story short one fine day I herniated a disc--no doubt about it but again can't confirm without an MRI. I tell you what, this pain is tremendous and I don't want to live with it--the extra mass from squats is not worth it for me anyway. I want to get better. It's getting better but very very slowly. I won't risk this again for anything now. I have vowed to give up squats and deadlifts with as much as it hurts me to do this. Ultimately, you have to decide this for yourself of course, but the decision is clear for me anyway. When my disc ruptured I was praying out load in the emergency room that I would just be able to walk--I seriously thought I was paralyzed from the waist down. That back problem of yours is serious. This is not like a sprained ankle--this is your spinal cord we're talking about here. Two words: Christopher Reeve. My advice: take it seriously like your health depends on it. Don't be a fool like I was.
Why did this happen to me? Who knows. My back is strong as hell. Overuse is my guess. But, the fact is that it happened and I can't reverse it.
Why did this happen to me? Who knows. My back is strong as hell. Overuse is my guess. But, the fact is that it happened and I can't reverse it.
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MACHI said:
Mechanism of disc injury is flexion of trunk with rotation. Disc syndromes are cumulative unless brought on by some substantial trauma. (car accident, fall, etc.)
I currently am treating several people with disc syndromes, both cervical and lumbar. One case in particular was a middle aged woman with mid lumbar herniated disc manifesting as leg pain/numbness, weakness and atrophy of thigh muscles. She was in rehab for several months but recovered fully and is back to working out.
The body has the incredible ability to heal.(you can probably guess which field of healthcare I practice) Given rest and proper rehab, (and depending on how badly the disc is herniated and degenerated) you should be close to full recovery.
Unless other symptoms like leg pain, numbness, atrophy, and the inability to urinate or defecate (cauda equina syndrome) are present, surgery should not be your first option (or cortisone injections for that matter)
Go see a chiropractor, this should be your first option, not your last resort.
RoCk
MikeHeavypecs
New Member
hey man, I herniated my L4-L5 about 5 years ago and had previously won the 1988 Mr Tennessee BB contest. It took about 6 months before I went back into the gym and with the help of some good therapists I am now able to work ALL body parts except legs (squats etc). Got close to 20" arms back, but my legs look like twigs and have a 54" chest. I look good as long as I don't wear shorts LOL
anyway, my point is that it doesn't end your lifting career, but you may not be able to do all the body parts that you have done in the past. I still have radiating pain and sciatic impingments causing numbness in my right foot to the point of tripping every once in a while. But, at least I look good in tank tops
Mike
anyway, my point is that it doesn't end your lifting career, but you may not be able to do all the body parts that you have done in the past. I still have radiating pain and sciatic impingments causing numbness in my right foot to the point of tripping every once in a while. But, at least I look good in tank tops
Mike
im going to have to go the other direction from all the others here....being in the healthcare field i have too.
permanate paralysis and nerve damage is not worth 'getting big'. keep it safe. find other ways of strengthing your legs/back without the risks associated with squats and deadlifts.
people suffer there entire lives with pains from bulging discs and nerve damage...ones that medications dont help.
you can continue to gain strength and size by other exercises.
best of luck.
permanate paralysis and nerve damage is not worth 'getting big'. keep it safe. find other ways of strengthing your legs/back without the risks associated with squats and deadlifts.
people suffer there entire lives with pains from bulging discs and nerve damage...ones that medications dont help.
you can continue to gain strength and size by other exercises.
best of luck.
I have degenerative disc disease, so I really don't have any disks left to bulge. Both the doc and the pt say, that if it wasn't for my level of musclature, I wouldn't be able to walk. Am I going to quit squatting? NO! btw I was diagnosed 6 years ago, and I am still not to the level I was before, but I am still alot bigger and stronger than most people.
BamBam said:im going to have to go the other direction from all the others here....being in the healthcare field i have too.
permanate paralysis and nerve damage is not worth 'getting big'. keep it safe. find other ways of strengthing your legs/back without the risks associated with squats and deadlifts.
people suffer there entire lives with pains from bulging discs and nerve damage...ones that medications dont help.
you can continue to gain strength and size by other exercises.
best of luck.
I couldn't agree more. I have DDD, ALL lumbar discs buldging plus herniations at L4/5/S1. I have had two surgeries, and am most likely awaiting a third. I played football for years and the heavy lifting associated with it along with a compression fracture has left me with permanent nerve damage, constant pain in my back and legs, and numbness in my left leg. You could cut off my big toe while I am sleeping and I probably wouldn't feel a thing. DO NOT RISK IT. Trust me a life full of chronic pain is not worth the tempory benefit of being "big". Unless you want to end up like me, taking a multitude of drugs (neurontin, prozac, celebrex, soma, cyclobenzoprine, and percocet to name a few) just to keep the pain TOLERABLE; and, the depression associated with it has made me contemplate putting a shotgun in my mouth many times. I WISH THIS UPON NO ONE. Please be careful, I know it is hard to imagine what it would be like with the type of symptoms I have had but I am an extreme case. I am 26 years old and every neurosurgeon or spinal specialist jaws drop when they see my MRI--I have the back of a arthritic old man. Sad thing is when I have kids I most likely won't be able to pick them up and I have a good 30-40 years left of dealing with this. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! I am not saying this will happen to you but it is a possibilty if you keep ignoring the pain and putting stress on your back. Good luck.
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kmc said:
my point exactly!!!
i care for these same patients. their dealing with chronic pain for months and years leads to long term drug usage. long term drug usage is going to put a hurting on your liver and kidneys.---- the outcome is never a pleasant one.
i know your gonna do what you want but i wanted to shed some light on the downsides. being chronic pain, nerve damage, major depression, suicidal, failure of relationships, loss of jobs, dialysis, transplants, etc.....hope you see the point.
best of luck. keep it safe!!!
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