Hexarelin vs ipamorelin vs tesamorelin...

[xrayphoton13]

I believe you are supposed to keep rHGH and secretagogues separated by at least 24 hours so I'm not sure if you are reaping any benefits combining them

 

[AlexDavis43]

I believe you are supposed to keep rHGH and secretagogues separated by at least 24 hours so I'm not sure if you are reaping any benefits combining them

Kinda hard to do with hGH, being that you'd be injecting it at least once every 24 hours.

 

[dropout]

I love to go out to the leading edge in many areas, but the data on this is so thin and based on, practically, bathing disembodied rat hearts in this compound. that it's a real stretch to expect any positive benefit to the heart with this secretagogue. Maybe there's something there, but even with my "mad scientist" cap on, this is a long way off of reaching the status of a very low level "maybe".

Licking the dried crust off the stopper of an empty vial of Semaglutide has a much higher evidence based likelihood of benefitting the heart than this stuff imo.

there was a small study, in humans, that found hexarelin had a positive effect to LVEF in male volunteers. This effect appears to be a unique property of hexarelin.

You gotta be careful though, because it will spike prolactin at higher dosages.

 

[Nidus]

there was a small study, in humans, that found hexarelin had a positive effect to LVEF in male volunteers. This effect appears to be a unique property of hexarelin.

You gotta be careful though, because it will spike prolactin at higher dosages.

All 3 of them can spike Prolactine. For me personally, Ipamorelin was the worst. 300mcg every evening for 3 weeks and my Prolactine was at 66. Stick to GH and run 3iu and you'll be off much better.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Kinda hard to do with hGH, being that you'd be injecting it at least once every 24 hours.

Yeah you would have to pick either HGH or secretagogues. Like maybe workout days do HGH and non workout days do secretagogues. Or rotate HGH 4 months, off 2 months, on secretagogues two months then repeat

 

[dropout]

All 3 of them can spike Prolactine. For me personally, Ipamorelin was the worst. 300mcg every evening for 3 weeks and my Prolactine was at 66. Stick to GH and run 3iu and you'll be off much better.

That sucks. The research I've read says Ipamorelin is the GHRP least likely to affect other hormones like Prolactin. All my labs have come back with low prolactin too. But everybody is different.

 

[bigMoJo]

The Effects of Hexarelin on the Cardiovascular System

In this condensed review, we discuss the evidence about the effect that Hexarelin has on the cardiovascular system. Read more here about Hexarelin.

www.consumerhealthdigest.com

Explains it better than I could. For some of the results, it was administered IV but I believe the protective properties can be achieved with a long term daily dose.

Thanks for bringing up this topic and posting this article. I did not see any of the rat trials as references in the article, or any other scientific evidence or data referenced. I did not do a seperate search regarding hexarelin used in rat trials. Basically, what I'm saying is that article is written without any proof to back up it's claims.

Additionally, assuming everything in that article IS backed up, there is no comparative data pertaining to ipa and tesa listed. Maybe I've looked at this thread mistakenly.

I know in your post you link that article as simply an "explanation." However, how did you come to the conclusion that hexarelin is "better" than the other two, and/or provides improved cardiac function?

Moreover, I HAVE read before that hexarelin is "stronger" than ipa, but I would have to search that study again. I've also run hex and ipa myself... anecdotally, shit works very well, but definitely hex is more "potent" IMO.

 

[dropout]

Thanks for bringing up this topic and posting this article. I did not see any of the rat trials as references in the article, or any other scientific evidence or data referenced. I did not do a seperate search regarding hexarelin used in rat trials. Basically, what I'm saying is that article is written without any proof to back up it's claims.
[...]
Moreover, I HAVE read before that hexarelin is "stronger" than ipa, but I would have to search that study again. I've also run hex and ipa myself... anecdotally, shit works very well, but definitely hex is more "potent" IMO.

Agreed, that article is trash.

This is good summary:

Hexarelin
Directly derived from GHRP-6 by substitution of 2- methyl-tryptophan for tryptophan [16], this compound is more rapidly absorbed than GHRP-6 due to its more lipophilic character and/or it is more resistant to degradation. This compound is more potent, has more chemical stability and reduced toxicity than GHRP-6. It is effective after intravenous, subcutaneous or intranasal administration. Apart from its capability to stimulate GH secretion, hexarelin displays a strong heart-protective activity against myocardial stunning in senescent rats, which seems to be specific to hexarelin or related GHRPs. Hexarelin also stimulates lactotroph and corticotroph secretion, stimulates feeding in the rat and has antiproliferative effects in human CALU-1 lung carcinoma cells.
Growth hormone secretagogues

And yes, there are several studies you can reference, including at least five in humans:

Hexarelin has cardioprotective activity in common cardiovascular conditions such as cardiac fibrosis, ischemic heart disease, cardiac dysfunction, and atherosclerosis. The important in vivo studies of hexarelin in cardiovascular conditions are summarized in Table 2.
The cardiovascular action of hexarelin

 

[dropout]

You referred to Ipamorelin, Hexarelin, and Tesamorelin as if they were in the same group twice. Ipamorelin and Hexarelin are GHRP's, and Tesamorelin is a GHRH. So you can't do a strict comparison of Hexarelin to Tesamorelin because they work differently.

Some people combine GHRP's with GHRH because they have a synergistic effect when used together. On the GHRP side, Ipamorelin is probably the most common because it doesn't have the side effects of GHRP-2. Tesamorelin is probably the most common GHRH because it is actively prescribed medically (unlike CJC-1295, Sermorelin).

 

[CraneKraken]

Pretty much yeah. 4-5iu of GH, 3000mg Magnesium, some 5HTP, Injectable Melatonin/Gaba/Arginin combined with DSIP and you sleep like a baby.

That's a nice sleep protocol. I have always struggled with sleep and it takes hours for me to settle down for the day. I've been taking melatonin for over 20yrs and it's always been helpful. I also take 500mgs of magnesium glycinate. On occasion I'll add 500mgs of magnesium oxide but the oxide often gives me the shits. My doctor now prescribes 100mgs of Hydroxyzine to help me settle down at night. I also take Gaba Pentin due to nerve damage from a major injury and surgery. The Gaba Pentin helps me slow down but seems to do little for deep, restful sleep. I also do a 6iu bolus of GH around 8 each night and the GH has helped me sleep deeper, once I finally hit that stage. The problem I have is it takes a really long time to hit that deep sleep stage and if I'm waking up to use the bathroom multiple times a night than it completely disrupts my ability to get deep restorative sleep -I do think that even on those rough nights the GH still helps make even the broken sleep more restorative.

With that said, I have a couple quick questions on your protocol.

- Does the 3000mgs of Magnesium cause you any bowel issues? If not, which type are you using?

- Do you find the injectable melatonin works better than tablets? Is it worth the extra injection and cost, or is it just a part of a blend?

- I've been really interested in giving DSIP a shot. How effective do you think it is compared to the other parts of your protocol? How long does a kit last you?

**Epitalon also looks like it could have some promise as a productive sleep aid. I may give that a shot along with DSIP.

I apologize for the long reply. Sleep is just a major issue for me and as a recovering opiate addict I have to be really careful about what I take to slow myself down at night.

Thanks, brotha.

 

[CraneKraken]

I gotta try that.


I've been using reta and my sleep has been pretty shit lately. Allegedly it can cause sleep issues.

I wasn't aware of this. I just ordered some Reta and like I said in a previous post, I absolutely suck at sleep. I'm thinking I should order some DSIP today. I'm considering giving Epitalon a shot as well.

 

[Nidus]

That's a nice sleep protocol. I have always struggled with sleep and it takes hours for me to settle down for the day. I've been taking melatonin for over 20yrs and it's always been helpful. I also take 500mgs of magnesium glycinate. On occasion I'll add 500mgs of magnesium oxide but the oxide often gives me the shits. My doctor now prescribes 100mgs of Hydroxyzine to help me settle down at night. I also take Gaba Pentin due to nerve damage from a major injury and surgery. The Gaba Pentin helps me slow down but seems to do little for deep, restful sleep. I also do a 6iu bolus of GH around 8 each night and the GH has helped me sleep deeper, once I finally hit that stage. The problem I have is it takes a really long time to hit that deep sleep stage and if I'm waking up to use the bathroom multiple times a night than it completely disrupts my ability to get deep restorative sleep -I do think that even on those rough nights the GH still helps make even the broken sleep more restorative.

With that said, I have a couple quick questions on your protocol.

- Does the 3000mgs of Magnesium cause you any bowel issues? If not, which type are you using?

- Do you find the injectable melatonin works better than tablets? Is it worth the extra injection and cost, or is it just a part of a blend?

- I've been really interested in giving DSIP a shot. How effective do you think it is compared to the other parts of your protocol? How long does a kit last you?

**Epitalon also looks like it could have some promise as a productive sleep aid. I may give that a shot along with DSIP.

I apologize for the long reply. Sleep is just a major issue for me and as a recovering opiate addict I have to be really careful about what I take to slow myself down at night.

Thanks, brotha.

I use magnesium bisglycinate, never had any bowel issues.
Injectable melatonin kicks your ass really fast i noticed that after a few weeks using it the effects are less pronounced yet you still sleep well!

DSIP: Really nice peptide but i've build a tolerance up for it, so i had to increase dose every 2-3 days by 50-100mcg and would take major breaks i.e. 4-6 weeks on and 2-3 months off and deploy that usually just during strict cuts to sleep better.

Epitalon makes you sleep well for sure but i found that the effects dont last long and its quite pricey for a sleeping aids, also not something youre supposed to run year around as far as i know.

I'd say 4iu GH together with some DSIP should help you a lot.

 

[fw190jd]

Currently taking HGH just before bed with a CJC295/Ipa blend and a Somorlin/ipa blend as prescribed.
No issues..thoughts ?

 

[Nidus]

Currently taking HGH just before bed with a CJC295/Ipa blend and a Somorlin/ipa blend as prescribed.
No issues..thoughts ?

Youre wasting money. You should read into these things and educate yourself. Running GH + CJC295/Ipa blend + another Somorlin/ipa blend dont do much.

Just run GH alone at this point.

 

[bigMoJo]

Currently taking HGH just before bed with a CJC295/Ipa blend and a Somorlin/ipa blend as prescribed.
No issues..thoughts ?

Youre wasting money. You should read into these things and educate yourself. Running GH + CJC295/Ipa blend + another Somorlin/ipa blend dont do much.

Just run GH alone at this point.

This is my understanding from the available research as well... its one or the other... hGH or Secretagogues.

hGH shuts down natural production for, IIRC, about 24 hours. With natural productuon shut, what's the Ipa/cjc going to boost?

 

[Nidus]

This is my understanding from the available research as well... its one or the other... hGH or Secretagogues.

hGH shuts down natural production for, IIRC, about 24 hours. With natural productuon shut, what's the Ipa/cjc going to boost?

Its pretty much pointless and Secretagogues dont even come close to make the body produce 3-4iu esp. at the old age. Just stick with 4iu GH.

I think with Ipa you come close to 2iu at tops?

 

[fw190jd]

Yes, peptides and HGH can be taken together, but you should consult your local health authority for more information.
Studies on peptides and HGH

• A study found that combining growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) and hexapeptide GH-releasing peptide-6 (GHRP-6) can cause a large increase in plasma GH levels.
• Another study found that coadministration of GH-releasing peptide-2 (GHRP-2), TRH, and GnRH reactivated the GH, TSH, and LH axes in prolonged critically ill men.
• A study found that hexarelin plus GHRH are synergistic and have potent GH-releasing activity.
• A study found that pretreatment with BPC 157 can enhance the effect of growth hormone in a dose- and time-dependent manner

 

[UncleBuns]

Youre wasting money. You should read into these things and educate yourself. Running GH + CJC295/Ipa blend + another Somorlin/ipa blend dont do much.

Just run GH alone at this point.

There are use cases for GH + GH peptides. Depends on the goal and they must be separated in the day properly. For most bodybuilding purposes or just for lean mass actual yea, more GH is better. But if one is using the peptides for an extra light boost in GH on top of rHGH and mainly for sleep quality improvement you can take the GH in the AM and peptides ideally 16 hours later pre bed. The peptides when separated that much will still give a little boost in GH but that is not the main purpose of that protocol. If you really want more GH effect then more rHGH Is definitely the easiest and best way to go.

 

[Nidus]

There are use cases for GH + GH peptides. Depends on the goal and they must be separated in the day properly. For most bodybuilding purposes or just for lean mass actual yea, more GH is better. But if one is using the peptides for an extra light boost in GH on top of rHGH and mainly for sleep quality improvement you can take the GH in the AM and peptides ideally 16 hours later pre bed. The peptides when separated that much will still give a little boost in GH but that is not the main purpose of that protocol. If you really want more GH effect then more rHGH Is definitely the easiest and best way to go.

Either way, it makes sense to only run. Even when taking GH and the GH peptides apart, still takes 24h to fully restore the owns GH production as far as i know. Plus when by the time you have 3-4iu GH in the system i could imagine that there is a decent level of somatostatin (the counter part of GH from the body to down regulate GH production) that your 4x GH blends together wont do anything.

Also GH Peptides require you to be fasted otherwise their effects are little to none, eating and causing insulin&glucose spikes downregulate GH production on top afaik.

To achieve a great boost you would need to run 400-500mcg of each GH peptide and that just for what, 1iu more? 1.5-2iu?

Just go with 3-4iu GH.

 

[bigMoJo]

Its pretty much pointless and Secretagogues dont even come close to make the body produce 3-4iu esp. at the old age. Just stick with 4iu GH.

I think with Ipa you come close to 2iu at tops?

IIRC... the body produces close to "2iU" and the secretegogue(s) add another "1-1.5iU." And see below...

There are use cases for GH + GH peptides. Depends on the goal and they must be separated in the day properly. For most bodybuilding purposes or just for lean mass actual yea, more GH is better. But if one is using the peptides for an extra light boost in GH on top of rHGH and mainly for sleep quality improvement you can take the GH in the AM and peptides ideally 16 hours later pre bed. The peptides when separated that much will still give a little boost in GH but that is not the main purpose of that protocol. If you really want more GH effect then more rHGH Is definitely the easiest and best way to go.

Wasn't it one of Type-II's pieces, or can't remember where I read, but... combining is possible, but only when its low dosed hGH (about 1-2iU). Above 2iU and the hGH cancels out the secretagogue(s). I'll have to find that, my apologies for not posting the data at this time.

Below, are some of Type-II's posts regarding "interference effect" between r-hGH and secretagogues. I'm still—when time permits—reading his book... it's likely covered there as well.

There is an interference effect from rhGH in the form of a partial feedback inhibition on secretagogues' stimulating GH secretion, and particularly GHS-R agonists like Ibutamoren (MK-677). It is probably modulated by direct action of GH on the hypothalamus to inhibit GHRH & stimulate somatostatin production, but could be modulated by stimulation of local IGF-I production from the somatotroph itself.

From my notes,

Mechanism in interference effect of rhGH on secretagogues
The mechanisms suggested for the negative feedback effect of GH on its own secretion include:
* inhibition of (hypothalamic) GHRH synthesis and release
* somatostatin synthesis and release (questionable; investigate)
* stimulation of local IGF-I production from the somatotroph itself

From Massoud, A. F., Hindmarsh, P. C., & Brook, C. G. D. (1995). Hexarelin induced growth hormone release is influenced by exogenous growth hormone. Clinical Endocrinology, 43(5), 617–621. doi:10.1111/j.1365-2265.1995.tb02927.x:



What you have presented is merely some evidence against that mechanism, it doesn't change the fact that partial interference occurs.

Unless you can point to some reason why Ibutamoren (MK-677) does not stand in the place of hexarelin as a Ghrelin mimetic (GHS-R agonist); GHRP, then I see no reason why it confers any particular advantage for this partial interference. Do you have evidence of its not being affected by GH in this regard from a representative study?

The Mod GRF (1-29) & Ipamorelin combination is OK, better than just Ibutamoren (MK-0677) for insulin resistance. Its relative unfavorability vs. rhGH relates mostly to financial expense & injection frequency, and an upper limit of about ~ 2.5 maybe 3 IU/d GH.

In that case no, but you should not administer GH secretagogues in combination with rhGH because GH negatively feeds back on its own secretion by partial interference. So you just waste the Ghrelin mimetic and/or Growth-hormone releasing hormone analogue.