Hgh and t4

[HandyManny]

1)Anyone have any good reads as far as combining t4 while running gh? I've seen a few around, just looking for better.

2)Also maybe has anyone ran growth with and without t4 and were the differences and advantages noticeable?

3) what about any info as far as coming off t4 and the after effects

Thanks fellas

 

[shredded]

I can answer this, run both and I only run pharma, Gh with T3 makes me hungry and if dosed to high will eventually make you look stringy. T3 is very aggressive in high doses.

Same Pharma GH with Pharma T4 not such a increase in appetite, sweat more have a tendency to feel heat more, im always sweaty.

My opinion T3 is for the last 3 weeks of comp prep, T4 is a better option for the rest.

 

[HandyManny]

Thanks shredded. What about as far as t4 dosing? And perhaps timing and how long to stay on and come off as well. I'm not to sure about the protocols on it, just the gh. Is it safe to run up to 6 months?

 

[HandyManny]

I'm in an off season mode still, but I want to keep it lean as possible, granted my diet and cardio are in check.

 

[pmac928]

T4 50-10mcgs ed. I only take t4 when I'm feeling groggy from the growth. It snaps you right out of the funk, however I've since switched gh brands and don't havey to take it much anymore. I guess my body became adjusted to the gh after a few months.
Good luck

 

[shredded]

Thanks shredded. What about as far as t4 dosing? And perhaps timing and how long to stay on and come off as well. I'm not to sure about the protocols on it, just the gh. Is it safe to run up to 6 months?

I think if your going to take thyroid then take enough to replenish what you would produce naturally plus a little more, in the off season if running T4 I would take at least 100mcg which is about 1 forth as potent as T3 so it equals about 25mcg once the conversion takes place. I think from memory you body produces about 20mcg of T3 a day. Come comp time if carbs are still high enough I will run 200mcg of T4, but during the last couple of weeks as carbs are low I will switch to T3.

T4 needs adequate carbohydrate for the conversion process to be effective, when dieting and carbs are low the conversion process is some what inefficient due to the lack or carbohydrate. That's why I switch during comp prep.

I have seen people run thyroid meds for years with no negative side effects when they stopped, I my self have run them for 12 months and my thyroid returned to normal within 3 weeks which was confirmed buy bloods.

 

[sable]

Hi, didn't mean to hijack the thread but is it too late to add t4 midway thru an HGH cycle.

Thanks

 

[HandyManny]

No it wouldn't be too late

Hi, didn't mean to hijack the thread but is it too late to add t4 midway thru an HGH cycle.

Thanks

 

[sable]

OK thanks.

 

[Dr JIM]

Is supplementing T-3/T-4 necessary while using HGH!? The broad answer is no with a few exceptions. But first it's important to know why Thyroxine levels may decline during early GH therapy.

Quite simply because GH cause the production and secretion of Insulin Growth Factor to increase the quantity of T-3:4 required to meet the metabolic demand also increased.

Moreover the the amount of T-3/4 consumed if directly
proportional to the GH dosage.

Consequently the first few weeks or moths of GH therapy may result in a relative a decrease in thyroxine levels.

However all is not lost, because almost all human hormonal systems, including the thyroid gland, operate on a relatively tight feedback control mechanism to maintain optimal T levels.

Thus with the passage of time, the lowered thyroxine level causes the increased secretion of pituitary TSH, which in turn results in the increased production of thyroxine by the thyroid gland..

Therefore unless you have an "under active" thyroid prior to initiating thyroid therapy T-3/4 supplementation circumvents the natural physiologic response to low Thyroxine, and is unwarranted IMO.

Consequently it's relatively important to obtain TFTs prior to GH use, with
the objective being the detection of asymptomatc hypothyroid patients.
Because the use of GH in these folks will often unveil sub-clinical hypothyroidism. .

It's also very important to know MANY of the studies which either recommended Thyroid therapy or suggested close observation and/or testing for thyroid dysfunction may be warranted, were performed on children with short stature children, congenital syndromes, genetic disorders or elderly adults, etc.

These patient subgroups are well known to have limited thyroid reserve and are by their very nature hypothyroid prone.

Regs
Jim

 

[sable]

Yes I'm reluctant to mess with anything that has to do with the word thyroid.lol...don't want fix something that's not broken..

 

[Gunrunner]

Here is a good artilce that explains it. It is a bit dated and I think Dr Jim has posted some very good points.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/thyroid-hormone-growth-hormone/

 

[sable]

Yeah I would love to incorporate it as I am 3 month in on gh and aas cycle. However my bp is a little high(hereditary), so I'm worried about adding the t4. I'm currently taking 20mg of linprisol EOD...

 

[Dr JIM]

I would suggest IF the GH being utilized is generic, your probably ONLY cycling Thyroxine, which (provisionally) improves LBM, an effect also observed to with GH use. So what is the source of the improvement in LBM? Well if your running "generic GH" the probability is VERY HIGH it's the T3/T4!

Guys (a generic reference only) please learn "the logic" behind the use of AAS and other ancillaries as safely as possible, preferably with evidence based rationale. Get the TFTs and although T3/T4 will decline initially it bounces back quite nicely IME, thus negating the "need" for another medication. Moreover because thyroxine supplementation is often less than benign, those with cardiac risk factors such as HTN, it should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

Remember first "do no harm"
Regards
Jim

 

[intel]

(going to say that I have not yet read the posts on here but I will later today).

I would never turn T3 or T4 without being on AAS (but that is a personal opinion) but GH lowers T4 level but up regulates T4 to T3 conversion. If you are going run GH I would personally not run more than 3iu per day.

As far as effects on T3 and T4 on GH I've A LOT of people do blood works after running GH next to forever (which you should always cycle if you are going to use generic GH) and their thyroid levels were always fine.

 

[sable]

Ive been running serostim 5i.u EOD for an month on the last 4 week of a 16 week cycle.

 

[sable]

The first two months I was running norditropin
Pen/..ran out..got my hands on seros....got about close to 180 i.us left ( a kit an a half). Still have generics if needed after that...I just felt like I could of done even better with t4.