High E2 converters, how do you manage?

[MuscularMD]

On 120 mg per week split three times a week at 40 mg.

My Quest ultrasensitive E2 is 75 pg/ml (norm is under 29). Body fat is 15%. Rarely have e2 symptoms: spicy nips for a few seconds every few days.

I feel like I’m a high converter. Given the low E2 symptoms, I’m hesitant to take an AI. Was planning my first blast at 300 mg per week, but now wondering what to expect.

Thoughts? Tips?

 

[Photon]

You just hoped on right?
How long have you been on?
120-150/week is basically TRT dose.
Thats a very high E2.

I believe E2 conversion does not increase linearly, it depends on how much enzymes you have. If anything, i think the marginal INCREASE in E2 tapers off the more T you inject.

 

[Eddie.]

Side effects are bad in both ways, high or low estradiol. You’re having almost 3 times the normal range, in a non sensitive test this could mean ~140pg/ml which is very very high, especially for the dose of test you’re taking.

Symptoms doesn’t mean much. If your hematocrit was 62% but you didn’t have any side effects would you do something to fix it or not?

Just take an AI like most guys with a brain do and get your estradiol levels in a healthy range. Then proceed to a bigger test dose, adjust the AI accordingly and after couple weeks test again. Only bloodwork will tell you where e2 is. Don’t wait to see if your nips start to hurt or growing a clit.

 

[MuscularMD]

You just hoped on right?
How long have you been on?
120-150/week is basically TRT dose.
Thats a very high E2.

I believe E2 conversion does not increase linearly, it depends on how much enzymes you have. If anything, i think the marginal INCREASE in E2 tapers off the more T you inject.

Yup. It’s been a few months now at that TRT dose.

I’ll see what happens on 300 mg per week and either add an AI if symptomatic or just go with TRT dosing.

 

[MuscularMD]

Side effects are bad in both ways, high or low estradiol. You’re having almost 3 times the normal range, in a non sensitive test this could mean ~140pg/ml which is very very high, especially for the dose of test you’re taking.

Symptoms doesn’t mean much. If your hematocrit was 62% but you didn’t have any side effects would you do something to fix it or not?

Just take an AI like most guys with a brain do and get your estradiol levels in a healthy range. Then proceed to a bigger test dose, adjust the AI accordingly and after couple weeks test again. Only bloodwork will tell you where e2 is. Don’t wait to see if your nips start to hurt or growing a clit.

Interestingly, Quest lab ran a regular and ultrasensitive E2 test on the same sample.

Regular E2 test. 69 pg/ml (norm < 39)
Ultra sensitive E2 test. 75 pg/ml (norm < 29)

Your point is taken though. Maybe start a low dose AI and retest.

 

[BabaJagga]

whats wrong with ai? i dont understand. i see many guys saying "i dont wanna use any ai", why?

 

[MuscularMD]

For me, it’s just another thing to manage.

whats wrong with ai? i dont understand. i see many guys saying "i dont wanna use any ai", why?

 

[BabaJagga]

For me, it’s just another thing to manage.

i understand that you dont wanna pop ai pills on true trt dose long term but when you wanna blast, just use ai for those 20 weeks?

whats the big deal? pillbox -> put in ai -> eat ai 2-3x per week and have 0 issues.

its not that hard...

 

[Ateam2023]

For me, it’s just another thing to manage.

but that comes with the dosages i guess, to some extent it can't be prevented,,

 

[CorgisOnTren]

For me, it’s just another thing to manage.

You just take a pill bro

 

[Ghoul]

A quarter or half of a 25mg aromasin tab 2x a week to keep E2 in a stable, perfect range is no big effort.

 

[Eddie.]

Ultra sensitive E2 test. 75 pg/ml (norm < 29)

Your point is taken though. Maybe start a low dose AI and retest.

Yea, i meant the 3 times over the range not that i could guess how much is the simple test based on sensitive. I'm telling this because the majority is doing simple test and by seeing a value of 75 they might think it's ok, it's not that high..but it actually is.

 

[Markimus Rex]

Use primo at half the dose of the test, primo take 4 weeks to kick in so take your blood test 5 weeks after you start

 

[Slowww]

A little Ai, cap test, fill cycle mg & control e2 with mast or EQ, + little bit of a progestin without causing a need for additional drugs (like caber etc.)

 

[Gatman]

posted blood work in the 40yr old and up section yesterday
6k total test
276 free test


not currently on any ai

estradiol level very high at 100….

all other bloods normal (ldl cholesterol slightly high but taking statin)

putting in an order of nolvadex

physically feel fine..

 

[Eddie.]

posted blood work in the 40yr old and up section yesterday
6k total test
276 free test


not currently on any ai

estradiol level very high at 100….

all other bloods normal (ldl cholesterol slightly high but taking statin)

putting in an order of nolvadex

physically feel fine..

Nolvadex does not reduce estradiol.. order an AI like aromasin or arimidex.

 

[Gatman]

Nolvadex does not reduce estradiol.. order an AI like aromasin or arimidex.

once again i show my ignorance….thank you for the heads up

 

[MuscularMD]

once again i show my ignorance….thank you for the heads up

Keep nolvadex on hand in case you get gyno. Raloxifene is better though.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Symptoms doesn’t mean much. If your hematocrit was 62% but you didn’t have any side effects would you do something to fix it or not?

I get the analogy, but high hematocrit has widely documented negative health effects with a strong mechanistic explanation for those negative health effects. Interventions show that keeping hematocrit down confers drastic health benefits.

High e2, not so much. There isn’t sufficient data showing high e2 is healthy or unhealthy, and being on testosterone only confuses things further.

Women on HRT can have e2 in the stratosphere and they generally get more health benefits than detriments from it. Of course we’re male, and male physiology is different, but it shows that high e2 isn’t the death sentence it’s sometimes made out to be.

In my opinion, given the uncertainty, I’d suggest anyone with high e2 titrates an AI up until either:
1: they get more negative side effects than positive effects from the decreased e2, then decrease the dose to the last [positive > negative] dose
2: their e2 is in the middle of the range

Historically, but perhaps coincidentally, every time my e2 has been in range I get pain in the same tooth when chewing, which goes shortly after my e2 is double the reference range. Maybe it’s a coincidence. But if it’s not a coincidence I’m not gonna go the rest of my life knowing my teeth are failing me just because I want my spreadsheet numbers to look good.

 

[georgian91]

On 120 mg per week split three times a week at 40 mg.

My Quest ultrasensitive E2 is 75 pg/ml (norm is under 29). Body fat is 15%. Rarely have e2 symptoms: spicy nips for a few seconds every few days.

I feel like I’m a high converter. Given the low E2 symptoms, I’m hesitant to take an AI. Was planning my first blast at 300 mg per week, but now wondering what to expect.

Thoughts? Tips?

If you’ve been at that E2 level for months and haven’t had any negative side effects, I wouldn’t take anything or change anything. What you could try is injecting more frequently, like ED (every day), but I wouldn’t worry if you’re feeling OK.