"Holistic" TRT protocol: DHEA and Pregnenolone?

[thestruggle]

I noticed that since I started TRT, my DHEA-S levels has significantly declined over time.

I find that adding 25mg of oral micronized DHEA to my TRT (50mg TE e4d + 40mg testogel daily + 0.125mg anastrazole e4d) has a clearly tangible effect on my mood, energy and social capacity.

Have you experienced this with DHEA as well? What are the other aspects one should consider to supplement for while on TRT? My stupid endoc doc had no odea about dhea and didn't even check for it.

 

[thestruggle]

Starting today, I’m adding micronized pregnenolone (25 mg) in the morning alongside my 12.5 mg micronized DHEA to see if I can restore some of the upstream hormone and neurosteroid activity that TRT alone can’t replace.

DHEA had clear boosts to my cognitive clarity, mood, but my sleep quality is still suffering.

I'm hoping replenishing precursors like pregnenolone and its metabolites (progesterone, allopregnanolone), could may be contribute to GABA balance and overall neuroendocrine function.

I’ll report back on my response over the next few weeks in terms of energy, focus, and sleep quality.

The struggle continues.

 

[dvalukis]

Please do report back. I dabbled w/ the two before but didn’t find lasting effects. In fact, my experience got worse over time w/ the two, but I may have been over-dosing myself. Is the “micronized” a crucial part of this protocol?

 

[thestruggle]

Please do report back. I dabbled w/ the two before but didn’t find lasting effects. In fact, my experience got worse over time w/ the two, but I may have been over-dosing myself. Is the “micronized” a crucial part of this protocol?

Will do.

My understanding is that micronized formulations have double oral absorbtion (25-30%).

If you have read my DHEA experience, I reported clear mood and cognitive boost on 25mg non-micronized daily, but I was also runnin 0.125mg Anastrazole twice a week which has probably helped tampen the E2 aromatization.

 

[thestruggle]

My sleep on the first day of pregnenolone was exceptionally different. I had no problem falling back to sleep after the 2 times I woke up, and could skip zolpidem for the first time in a while.

I woke up refreshed and scored the subjective sleep quality 4/5 (usually 2). Objective data was also different, specifically awake time slashed in half.

The first half of the sleep was comparably shallow. Had vivid dreams, and felt I'm stuck in between wakefulness and sleep. Second half felt deeper.

Overall I was pretty satisfied.

Unsire if it was pregnenolone, or reduced dhea (from 25mg non-micronized to 12.5 micronized, different formulation).

Hopefully not a random coincidence.

 

[xrayphoton13]

I tried adding micronized pregnenolone once to my trt. Huge mistake. Clearly unnecessary for me. Only time ever in my life that I struggled to maintain an erection. I would check labs before adding it in after that experience

 

[thestruggle]

I tried adding micronized pregnenolone once to my trt. Huge mistake. Clearly unnecessary for me. Only time ever in my life that I struggled to maintain an erection. I would check labs before adding it in after that experience

Thanks for the note. How long did you run the trial?

I understand the conversion pathways are highly individual. For me, it was eather calming than excitory so far.

Last night I still had better sleep. Unfortunately multiple variables have changed in the past two night though.

 

[niqTM]

Last month, I added regular DHEA (25mg 2x/day) and Pregnanolone (50mg 2x/day) and i has made a huge difference on mood, energy and sleep. Maybe the energy is from the improved sleep but it is something everyone should atleast consider when starting TRT/+/++

It might be too much and I might drop it to each once a day if I stop getting benefits.

Both are not micronized and both are the Amazon Nutricost brand.

 

[thestruggle]

Last month, I added regular DHEA (25mg 2x/day) and Pregnanolone (50mg 2x/day) and i has made a huge difference on mood, energy and sleep. Maybe the energy is from the improved sleep but it is something everyone should atleast consider when starting TRT/+/++

It might be too much and I might drop it to each once a day if I stop getting benefits.

Both are not micronized and both are the Amazon Nutricost brand.

Thanks for sharing this. How is your timing exactly?

I had similar experience with DHEA (25mg non-moctonized, morning), pushing it later in the day and/or increasing the dose to 50mg had negative effects on my sleep onset.

 

[niqTM]

Thanks for sharing this. How is your timing exactly?

I had similar experience with DHEA (25mg non-moctonized, morning), pushing it later in the day and/or increasing the dose to 50mg had negative effects on my sleep onset.

7am morning dose with the rest of crap I take. 7pm after dinner. Basically VigorusSteve protocol.

I know DHEA is supposed to be stimulating at doses about 50mg. Might do 50mg in the morning and nothing at night.

Pregnanolone is supposed to be a more of a relaxing neuorsteriod. It would make sense to take that at night and not in the morning.

 

[xrayphoton13]

Thanks for the note. How long did you run the trial?

I understand the conversion pathways are highly individual. For me, it was eather calming than excitory so far.

Last night I still had better sleep. Unfortunately multiple variables have changed in the past two night though.

Two or three days.

 

[thestruggle]

7am morning dose with the rest of crap I take. 7pm after dinner. Basically VigorusSteve protocol.

I know DHEA is supposed to be stimulating at doses about 50mg. Might do 50mg in the morning and nothing at night.

Pregnanolone is supposed to be a more of a relaxing neuorsteriod. It would make sense to take that at night and not in the morning.

My understanding is that Pregnenolone can be stimulating or even stress-inducing in some. Depending whether the body favor allopregnanolone conversion leading to more progesteone at the end or sulfur pregnenolone (chatgpt knowledge).

 

[niqTM]

My understanding is that Pregnenolone can be stimulating or even stress-inducing in some. Depending whether the body favor allopregnanolone conversion leading to more progesteone at the end or sulfur pregnenolone (chatgpt knowledge).

Could be but one of the 2, or both, seem to work really well for me. There is a certain "drive" or well-being that came around after I started taking it after a year of trt/+

 

[thestruggle]

Could be but one of the 2, or both, seem to work really well for me. There is a certain "drive" or well-being that came around after I started taking it after a year of trt/+

I love dhea. It made me a more socially warm person who is capable of smiling at some serious German faces

 

[zafiroff]

My libido hasn't been the same since starting TRT. Used to read the Ray Peat forum a while back and people in there recommend 15mg DHEA (because, according to them, dosage above 15mg is actually harmful) and Pregnenolone (the dosage that they recommend over there is all over the place but there is a consensus amongst the members that Ray have said that 100mg+ is beneficial [please don't quote me on that, my memory isn't great, sadly] and that it will prevent the shrinking of the testes).

So, I bought myself a bottle of Life Extension DHEA 15mg a pill and Swanson 50mg Preg. Let me tell you, I was HORNY. I was absolutely amazed. This hasn't been the case in a while. But sadly, I dropped them because I currently have no time to fine-tune things and do bloodwork since either or both of them made my nips itch and feel puffy (E2..).

Edit: to add, I think there might have even been some cognitive benefits as well, and they might have eased my anxiety as well, which, again, is a huge benefit.

 

[thestruggle]

Second night of sleep turned exceptionally different, and relatively good.

Vivid dreams. Been in another world. Low stress levels even on a training day. Less time awake, and higher hrv.

Had a bit of a delay getting an erection. Took time you know, but ended well.

 

[thestruggle]

Clear night time sleep improvements since started 25mg of micronized pregnenolone in the morning, and also unusual severe daytime sleepiness that tends to intefere with physical and cognitive performance during the day. I had to sleep 45m at 17pm before I start training. Sort of love it, but inteferes with life.

Sleep is so much better I stopped taking zolpidem naturally. Love you pregnenolone. Knock me out.

Clearly, pregnenolone is something I need for better sleep but the dosage at 25mg micronized, and/or the timing is not right.

Gotta change things around. Struggle continues.

 

[SnowyMiami]

Vigorous Retard memed DHEA and Pregnenolone into existence. Now every noob is throwing it in. DHEA is estrogen in pill form and nobody has a clear answer to what Pregnenolone actually does.

 

[NotHuman]

People who just blindly add pregnenolone without checking their pregnenolone LC/MS level and progesterone, then tell the internet they took an unspecified dose and say they didn’t like it really have no clue what the fuck they are doing.

It’s a hormone. You only use it if you are deficient. It will raise progesterone and other hormones as a downstream effect. Some people should take it at a dose tailored to the individual while others should not.

I need it. My pregnenolone was <10 and progesterone was 0.1, so I take 100mg micronized splits 50/50 with my first and last meals. This optimizes my progesterone level to 0.5.

Blindly taking a random dose to see what happens and then telling everyone how much it sucks is completely irresponsible when there are people out there who truly would benefit.

 

[thestruggle]

Vigorous Retard memed DHEA and Pregnenolone into existence. Now every noob is throwing it in. DHEA is estrogen in pill form and nobody has a clear answer to what Pregnenolone actually does.

You clearly have all the answers though. Well done expert user.