How could you not love Ayn Rand

[Grizzly]

This one's for you, Bob. I know how much you love to hear me talk about Ayn Rand.

Anyhow, I am re-reading "Atlas Shrugged" and I ran across this passage last night. I thought it was a damned fine passage and I thought I'd share.

"People think that a liar gains a victory over his victim. What I've learned is that a lie is an act of self-abdication, because one surrender's one's reality to the person to whom one lies, making that person one's master, condemning oneself from then on to faking the sort of reality that person's view requires to be faked. And if one gains the immediate purpose of the lie- the price one pays is the destruction of that which the gain was intended to serve. The man who lies to the world is the world's slave from then on."

Very, very interesting. I have to give her credit. It's very true and I've never thought of it that way.

 

[Patuba]

I've read The Fountainhead and 1/2 of Atlas Shrugged. I didn't care for her work but that's just me.

 

[VDC]

On the whole she preaches self determination and was an atheist,,,but there is truth in that passage,,,Here's how the scripture says it, "Behold, he travaileth with iniquity, and hath conceived mischief, and brought forth falsehood. He made a pit, and digged it, and is fallen into the ditch which he made. His mischief shall return upon his own head, and his violent dealing shall come down upon his own pate."-Psalms 7:14-16,,,VDC

 

[Massive690]

you guys are way too deep for me. im gonna go back to killing nazis in call of duty now. i understand that

 

[Meat Train]

Ahh- the games have some philosophies too! I just beat Painkiller and Far Cry.

"My machine gun smoketh with the entrails of offense. My aim be pleased!"

I read as well-- I just don't want my software to go to waste (before it becomes obsolete tomorrow).

 

[Denkallberry]

Howard Roark's love interest - "Ask for nothing, expect nothing, depend on nothing: that is freedom."

The old movie with Gary Cooper as Roark is awesome and is fairly true to the book. His speech in the courtroom is riveting.

Ayn's husband came up with a saying that she liked so much, she started using it herself: "Cast out pearls, and you don't even get a porkchop back."

 

[occam]

Grizz you caught me off guard with that.......I'm a pseudo - objectivist myself.

If you don't mind I like to offer one of my favorite Rand quotes from memory so I do apologize if I miss quote......

"Existence is Identity, Consciousness is Identification"
..................................From John Galts radio address

Orwell himself would revel in such "concreteness"

Thanks for bringing me back to the thought process I so enjoyed my first time through her work.

P.S. Hey Bob I think your a stud but don't know if you love or hate Rand based on Grizzly's comment..........I find her earnest even if self indulgent. I'd get with Dagny or Dominique based on her portrait.....I dig a strong headed biatch.

(Can you tell I've had a few dozen drinks tonight?)

 

[Grizzly]

Bob would like Rand, if he ever bothered to read her. Reading "Atlas Shrugged" is like reading one of Bob's diatribes on lazy, welfare grabbing nut monkeys.

A movie you say, Denkall? Really? Hmmmmm.

I have to give Rand her due. I think she's the best philosopher of all time. If not because of her ideas, because she's the only one who can hold a vast audience. Sure, Nietzsche was relatively entertaining in "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" but it was still over the heads of the many. Schoepenhaur is entertaining, but only to philosophers such as myself.

The thing that makes Rand great is that she can explain her whole philosophical system in the context of story that captures and holds the reader. It's almost impossible to disagree with here whilst reading her books. She turned me from a commie.

 

[esco]

i am a big fan of fountainhead myself.

 

[morepain]

i am a big fan of fountainhead myself.

Oddly enough, Atlas Shrugged reads almost like a premonition of what is happening right now in teh American steel and manufacturing industries, it is my favorite book of all time.

 

[Grizzly]

On the whole she preaches self determination and was an atheist,,,

I know. Ain't she great?

 

[thick]

interesting way to look at lying.

massive, do u know anything about stars wars knights of the old republic?

 

[occam]

Bob would like Rand, if he ever bothered to read her. Reading "Atlas Shrugged" is like reading one of Bob's diatribes on lazy, welfare grabbing nut monkeys.

A movie you say, Denkall? Really? Hmmmmm.

I have to give Rand her due. I think she's the best philosopher of all time. If not because of her ideas, because she's the only one who can hold a vast audience. Sure, Nietzsche was relatively entertaining in "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" but it was still over the heads of the many. Schoepenhaur is entertaining, but only to philosophers such as myself.

The thing that makes Rand great is that she can explain her whole philosophical system in the context of story that captures and holds the reader. It's almost impossible to disagree with here whilst reading her books. She turned me from a commie.

I know what you mean Grizz......but she is perhaps THE anti-communist ya know?

You are right on the mark regarding her ability to frame an arguement in an engaging narrative.

Here is another quote Bob might like on the welfare tip (maybe we can get him to read her yet?)

"......they proclaim that every man is entitled to exist without labor and, the laws of reality to the contrary notwithstanding, is entitled to receive his "minimum sustenance" his food, his clothes, his shelter, with no effort on his part, as his due and his birthright. To receive it, from whom? "

 

[Grizzly]

Yeah, from goddamn whom, I ask!

 

[Joe West]

i dont care for ayn rand personally, as ive read some things she said about religion/religous ppl that were a bit offensive. im not asking anyone to believe in god, but have some respect for those that do.

anyway, i also dont care for her philosophy either. im a Nihilist, a reductionist to the nth degree, with a good bit of misanthropy mixed in. im a god believing super Neitschze [spelling]! what i dont agree with is the flowery background she puts around tings, like with lieing above. it seems she tried to put the basic value of religion into a secular context. but heres the truth: lieing does get you places. any kind of moral repugnation you feel is totally in your mind, and not real.

i distill the word of god as be a good person. dont cut throats for the sake of killing so to speak. but grabbing onto large and cumbersom philosophies just hamstrings you after awhile. too much you cant do.

but it ultimatly ends up as doing whatever makes your life feel more full i guess. by following rules youset for yourself, that somehow makes you feel your doing something or morally superior to others. i see life as more a zero sum game. since modern society has more or less given up any kind of morality anyway, at best situational ethics that only come into play when you are the one being fucked over, it seems to me that not being willing to get in the dirt with ppl is more a hinderance than anything.

im not saying i like the death of ethics, or of a word meaning something, but whats true is true. married women flogging me....rampant scamming over at the classifieds....enron....the whole things going down bros. we are canabalizing ourselves. id rather live in a world where i know and accept that there is no greater good in ppl, than trying to rise above and then confusing my morality with those around me.

 

[VDC]

Joe,,,To be blunt,,,You are an unbeliever,,,What you espouse is closer to Ayn Rand's philosophy then you care to acknowledge,,,So we all are prey or predators eh,,,So there is no right or wrong only what you choose believe in,,,That denies the existence of God, who is good,,,What you believe in is between you and God,,,but don't kid yourself that you believe in God when you deny Him,,,BTW "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God(Love), neither indeed can be.",,,The Word of God can not be "Distilled",,,It must be engafted into your heart and make you a new creature,,,Ye must be born again,,,VDC

 

[Joe West]

vdc, to be blunt, it is not up to you to judge me.

i dont beleive god hates fags. i dont beleive he will send you to hell for having sex before marriage. i also dont believe he will send you to hell for but the most heinous things. i believe alot fo the above was implanted in the bible by the catholic church for purposes of social control, and is not the word of god. do you really beleive god will send you to a dark, firey pit for all eternity for getting some nookie and maybe smoking some dope? for a being of eternal love that sounds a bit harsh.

yes, we all are predators or prey.

i didnt say there was no right or wrong. murdering a person for kicks isnt a good thing.

dont kid yourself that you are any closer to god than i.

i dont kid myself: the world is fucked. god wants you to be a good person, but not a sucker. in a world full of vampires, sometimes uou have to fight back. doesnt make you any less of a person.

there is no use kidding yourself about ppl. they are out for themselves, reguardless of the consequences to yuo or anyone else. a solid moral base is great, but holding yourself too high only makes you an easy target.

but you telling me what my belief is from a couple paragraphs is laughable.

you have PM

 

[Massive690]

interesting way to look at lying.

massive, do u know anything about stars wars knights of the old republic?

no, havent played it. heard it kicks ass though

 

[VDC]

God wants us to grow up to be just like Him,,,You can't do this on your own,,,Its not my judgment of you Joe,,,Its the judgment of both of us,,,When the Word comes from this vessel I am held accountable above anyone else,,,You have to know God as a living being not an intellectual concept,,,
On that predator prey thing,,,Which is saying God wants us to be good,,,A good predator or sheep???Its the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world,,,I had hoped you wouldn't feel that I was attacking you,,,I am a teacher of the Word,,,not by my efforts,,,Its a gift,,,VDC

 

[aragorn1500]

Atlas Shrugged

Who is John Galt??

LOL

Great novel - It could have used a little editing though - almost 1200 pages.