How high do you let your E2 ride on cycle?

[MFAAS]

I am curious, and I know there's been similar threads before and I used the search engine, but I am struggling to find and aggregate information and figure making a new thread would be beneficial.

So: how high do you let your E2 ride? I often see people say "as high as possible without gyno/side effects" -- but what does that mean FOR YOU? Is that 80 pg/mL? Is that 120 pg/mL? When do the high E2 symptoms kick in for you?

My last blood test had total T at 4650 ng/dL and E2 at 143 pg/mL, which is obviously very high (though not in comparison to my test levels). However, I have zero high E2 symptoms. No water retention, BP is amazing--the highest I have ever seen it is 131 over 78 and something was going on that day, my resting pulse was 78 and I felt like shit, actually taking some citrulline helped greatly, which was weird, but I digress, no gyno due to full gland removal, no acne at all. Still fucking daily and having zero issues with erections, libido, or orgasming.

Prior to my surgery I used to have one high e2 symptom: sensitive nips any time I got higher than ~37 pg/mL E2 as my nips were super sensitive due to pubertal gyno, now I have no nip issues at all even if my E2 is higher than 143, the highest I have seen it is 150 and I still felt great.

So I ask thee:
1. How high is too high for you when it comes to your personal estradiol levels on cycle?
2. Do you have a range of E2 that you target or expect to be in and feel good at based off your past cycles. If so, what is that range?
3. Which high E2 symptoms kick in for you first?

 

[Monkipalo]

View: https://youtu.be/SDLCy99nZI4

 

[Ss99]

View: https://youtu.be/SDLCy99nZI4

This is the same guy who thinks everyone should use an SSRI on cycle, that masteron doesn’t build muscle and UGL steroids are so much weaker than pharmaceutical grade products that they aren’t even the same compounds. I honestly wouldn’t listen to a word he says.

 

[Ss99]

I am curious, and I know there's been similar threads before and I used the search engine, but I am struggling to find and aggregate information and figure making a new thread would be beneficial.

So: how high do you let your E2 ride? I often see people say "as high as possible without gyno/side effects" -- but what does that mean FOR YOU? Is that 80 pg/mL? Is that 120 pg/mL? When do the high E2 symptoms kick in for you?

My last blood test had total T at 4650 ng/dL and E2 at 143 pg/mL, which is obviously very high (though not in comparison to my test levels). However, I have zero high E2 symptoms. No water retention, BP is amazing--the highest I have ever seen it is 131 over 78 and something was going on that day, my resting pulse was 78 and I felt like shit, actually taking some citrulline helped greatly, which was weird, but I digress, no gyno due to full gland removal, no acne at all. Still fucking daily and having zero issues with erections, libido, or orgasming.

Prior to my surgery I used to have one high e2 symptom: sensitive nips any time I got higher than ~37 pg/mL E2 as my nips were super sensitive due to pubertal gyno, now I have no nip issues at all even if my E2 is higher than 143, the highest I have seen it is 150 and I still felt great.

So I ask thee:
1. How high is too high for you when it comes to your personal estradiol levels on cycle?
2. Do you have a range of E2 that you target or expect to be in and feel good at based off your past cycles. If so, what is that range?
3. Which high E2 symptoms kick in for you first?

My opinion is that the e2 range is pointless on cycle. I don’t care for the number that my e2 shows on cycle but rather the amount of DHT derivatives I’m using as a ‘pseudo AI’ if that makes sense. In terms of symptoms I’d say the first ones that appear for me are nipple sensitivity, I feel terrible using AIs though even if my e2 is still considered high by the standard reference ranges.
For example on my last cycle I used up to 450mg of testosterone weekly and didn’t see any need to use an AI nor see where my estradiol was as I was also using 450mg of masteron at that time. It pretty much took care of any real negative side effects that I’d normally experience if I was running standalone testosterone without an AI. On my next cycle I plan to go up to 600mg of testosterone weekly but plan to use primobolan which again should allow me to do so. I have a client/friend who was on 800mg or so testosterone weekly with an equivalent amount of masteron weekly, had estradiol in the several hundreds (above levels most young females would have) and had 0 issues with e2 such as gyno or water retention, whereas even running 300mg of testosterone without any other compounds or ancillaries would usually leave him with high estradiol side effects.

I hope that makes sense. It’s why I don’t understand why a lot of these top prep coaches have their clients run very high testosterone dosages with daily AI dosing when they would like have a better experience keeping the testosterone lower and using other compounds. That’s not to say that I agree with the Broderick Chavez concept of keeping testosterone at 2-3mg/kg and using AAS, most people will start experiencing problems once they start running masteron or primobolan at double the dose of testosterone which is why that ideology doesn’t make sense.

 

[Monkipalo]

I can understand why he says that about UGL gear, he had access to Bayer injectables because he lived in some middle east country.
He's backing up everything he says with empirical data in this video, like he does on most of his other videos. I think OP will take some valuable piece of info from this video.

 

[MFAAS]

My opinion is that the e2 range is pointless on cycle. I don’t care for the number that my e2 shows on cycle but rather the amount of DHT derivatives I’m using as a ‘pseudo AI’ if that makes sense. In terms of symptoms I’d say the first ones that appear for me are nipple sensitivity, I feel terrible using AIs though even if my e2 is still considered high by the standard reference ranges.
For example on my last cycle I used up to 450mg of testosterone weekly and didn’t see any need to use an AI nor see where my estradiol was as I was also using 450mg of masteron at that time. It pretty much took care of any real negative side effects that I’d normally experience if I was running standalone testosterone without an AI. On my next cycle I plan to go up to 600mg of testosterone weekly but plan to use primobolan which again should allow me to do so. I have a client/friend who was on 800mg or so testosterone weekly with an equivalent amount of masteron weekly, had estradiol in the several hundreds (above levels most young females would have) and had 0 issues with e2 such as gyno or water retention, whereas even running 300mg of testosterone without any other compounds or ancillaries would usually leave him with high estradiol side effects.

I hope that makes sense. It’s why I don’t understand why a lot of these top prep coaches have their clients run very high testosterone dosages with daily AI dosing when they would like have a better experience keeping the testosterone lower and using other compounds. That’s not to say that I agree with the Broderick Chavez concept of keeping testosterone at 2-3mg/kg and using AAS, most people will start experiencing problems once they start running masteron or primobolan at double the dose of testosterone which is why that ideology doesn’t make sense.

I agree the range is pointless when you're on gear. I'm just curious what other people like to be at/where they feel good. I don't run DHT derivatives (other than oral anavar) as I don't want to increase my already occurring balding. Test+NPP+Anavar just works really well for me and I have always stuck to that. I feel fine taking adex, so I just take as little as possible of that when on cycle.

I am quite familiar with the debate around AIs, I am not looking for advice of "is my e2 too high/should I lower it." Just totally curious where other people feel good and what symtpoms they get at different levels. I was hoping to scour the steroidsourcetalk blood test threads and just aggregate info from there, but SST seems to be down?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

I can understand why he says that about UGL gear, he had access to Bayer injectables because he lived in some middle east country.
He's backing up everything he says with empirical data in this video, like he does on most of his other videos. I think OP will take some valuable piece of info from this video.

It's not the case for the UGL/Pharma.
If a hormone tests at 99% purity.
And the finished product is tested at the desired/equivalent dosage.
There is ZERO difference.

The only case for Pharma, is you know exactly what you're getting.
(Which IMO is just not true, considering the insane amount of fakes out there.. especially Rimos and GH)

This is basic chemistry.
Hydrogen is no less hydrogen, just because it came from a different place.

Testosterone is no less testosterone under HPLC examination, because Bob or Steve manufacturers it.

 

[Ss99]

I can understand why he says that about UGL gear, he had access to Bayer injectables because he lived in some middle east country.
He's backing up everything he says with empirical data in this video, like he does on most of his other videos. I think OP will take some valuable piece of info from this video.

He was supposedly brought up in Dubai and claims that you can buy pharmaceutical grade steroids and HGH inside the gyms lol, I was in Dubai last year and I can tell you for a fact that this isn’t true, and speaking to people there this also wasn’t the case 5 or 10 years ago so I’m not sure what decade he’s referring to when he talks about this stuff. Also Bayer Testoviron and Rimobolan was never available in the Middle East, the ‘pharma grade’ he talks about are just UGLs that come in fancy packaging from Pakistan or India, so again I’m not sure how he came to the conclusion that these were vastly superior to standard UGL products when the raws come from the same place...

In general he makes some good points in his videos regarding health whilst bodybuilding but most of his opinions are too far fetched and he vastly overestimates his own intelligence, and frankly some of his advice like SSRIs on cycle is just far too dangerous. Even medical professionals aren’t as confident in some areas as this guy claims to be which I find crazy. There are far better sources of information out there and in my opinion this guy hasn’t added anything of value since his first appearance on YouTube last year. I know he also advises people to use statins on cycle if they have dislipidemia but I remember Dr Thomas O’Connor saying the same things in videos dating back to 2017 and he actually as the academic background that allows him to talk on such matters. His following seems to be made up of newbies who’ve barely made any decent progress in the gym and are fascinated with the medical terminology he uses since they’ve never read any piece of scientific literature themselves. The information in the video you’ve posted has existed for decades and is best read directly from the source rather than through a psychopath who’ll add his own false claims to everything.

 

[MFAAS]

I can understand why he says that about UGL gear, he had access to Bayer injectables because he lived in some middle east country.
He's backing up everything he says with empirical data in this video, like he does on most of his other videos. I think OP will take some valuable piece of info from this video.

I'll check it out. Really all I am curious about and getting at with this thread is what levels other people feel good at. I know it's all over the map, was just trying tk aggregate and synthesize some info from different people's anecdotes. If you know of any place other than SST (seems to be down again) that has a lot of dedicated blood test results threads please let me know I'd like to check it out. I was gonna try to aggregate a data set into an excel sheet and make a nice table out of it.

 

[Silentlemon1011]

I'll check it out. Really all I am curious about and getting at with this thread is what levels other people feel good at. I know it's all over the map, was just trying tk aggregate and synthesize some info from different people's anecdotes. If you know of any place other than SST (seems to be down again) that has a lot of dedicated blood test results threads please let me know I'd like to check it out. I was gonna try to aggregate a data set into an excel sheet and make a nice table out of it.

I feel best at high e2
But to do so, I have to stay in a daily SERM regiment to combar gyno.

I also feel shitty when taking AI and I try to avoid it (Not to mention, AIs just dint do much for me... and I feel great with zero AI at 500mg Test 300mg Nandrolone)

 

[Ss99]

I feel best at high e2
But to do so, I have to stay in a daily SERM regiment to combar gyno.

I also feel shitty when taking AI and I try to avoid it (Not to mention, AIs just dint do much for me... and I feel great with zero AI at 500mg Test 300mg Nandrolone)

I’m similar, not in terms of the gynecomastia but the shittiness from taking an AI even if I’m microdosing it. I can also guess that at those dosages of AAS and in the absence of an AI your bloodwork looks healthy too. I know of a very high-level USPA power lifter who stays on a similar dose of test and deca year round and feels amazing along with having good yearly bloodwork and health scans.

 

[Loanranger]

Bumping this back up guys, see if anyone has any more light to shed on this.
I am just about to get bloods done after 5wks on 500mg per wk of test. Feeling gd at the min, motivations on point, libido could be better not much water retention and no issues with nips.

this is the first time I have done bloods before a cycle and 5wks/6wks in to one also. Trying to do things better!

 

[Mac11wildcat]

As high as I can without sides. This will vary for everybody.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

I am curious, and I know there's been similar threads before and I used the search engine, but I am struggling to find and aggregate information and figure making a new thread would be beneficial.

So: how high do you let your E2 ride? I often see people say "as high as possible without gyno/side effects" -- but what does that mean FOR YOU? Is that 80 pg/mL? Is that 120 pg/mL? When do the high E2 symptoms kick in for you?

My last blood test had total T at 4650 ng/dL and E2 at 143 pg/mL, which is obviously very high (though not in comparison to my test levels). However, I have zero high E2 symptoms. No water retention, BP is amazing--the highest I have ever seen it is 131 over 78 and something was going on that day, my resting pulse was 78 and I felt like shit, actually taking some citrulline helped greatly, which was weird, but I digress, no gyno due to full gland removal, no acne at all. Still fucking daily and having zero issues with erections, libido, or orgasming.

Prior to my surgery I used to have one high e2 symptom: sensitive nips any time I got higher than ~37 pg/mL E2 as my nips were super sensitive due to pubertal gyno, now I have no nip issues at all even if my E2 is higher than 143, the highest I have seen it is 150 and I still felt great.

So I ask thee:
1. How high is too high for you when it comes to your personal estradiol levels on cycle?
2. Do you have a range of E2 that you target or expect to be in and feel good at based off your past cycles. If so, what is that range?
3. Which high E2 symptoms kick in for you first?

Everyone is different, and it means even receptorial pattern is different, so the same estrogens level will have a total different outcome in a different person.

Check your blood pressure, gyno doesnt mean anything related of the level of estrogens.

as altrady stated its kinda saying Jay Cutler isnt on aas because he didnt lose his hair

 

[Loanranger]

Yeah seems a sticky subject as everyone’s different, I suppose its trial and error see how your body responds to different E2 levels.
Cheers guys.

 

[TrenBolognaSandwich]

Everyone is different, and it means even receptorial pattern is different, so the same estrogens level will have a total different outcome in a different person.

Check your blood pressure, gyno doesnt mean anything related of the level of estrogens.

as altrady stated its kinda saying Jay Cutler isnt on aas because he didnt lose his hair

Bit above of lab range works for me, no bloated face, no gyno, excellent blood pressure but you got to stay on top of your AI so it doesn't go jumping all around the place as that's what i feel ends up giving you gyno, acne and all the sides

 

[MFAAS]

Everyone is different, and it means even receptorial pattern is different, so the same estrogens level will have a total different outcome in a different person.

Check your blood pressure, gyno doesnt mean anything related of the level of estrogens.

as altrady stated its kinda saying Jay Cutler isnt on aas because he didnt lose his hair

Yeah, I am definitely aware of the differences from person to person. I wish there was like a database of different people's experiences of different high e2 symptoms they get at varying blood levels of E2.

For example, if you had 500 AAS users and all report various levels of E2 between, say, 30 and 120 pg/mL. Then each of the 500 either report no symptoms or they list the different symptoms they have, you'd sort of be able to do some data crunching and find the patterns and trends of where different symptoms pop up across the population. Obviously it wouldn't be perfect my any means. I think it'd be a very interesting data set though. Unfortunately, there's not really any good way to collect the data. Perhaps a survey would be the best route, idk.

 

[AlwaysHungry]

If i wanna be in range i need about 2mg adex for 400mg testosterone.
However that's only on bloodwork paper.

I can easily run 500mg++ of test ++ deca no AI need the only symptom that hits me is water retention. Ive even had run 1g of testo plus deca and dbol with no AI. However, if symptoms occur you can pop some adex once-twice a week or every 10 days by how you feel.

Also what I've noticed with Ai's is a significant loss of pump.
Nowadays to blast testosterone I'm doing almost 1:1 ratio test/masteron
or test;mast 1:0.5

 

[rrambo1]

If i wanna be in range i need about 2mg adex for 400mg testosterone.
However that's only on bloodwork paper.

I can easily run 500mg++ of test ++ deca no AI need the only symptom that hits me is water retention. Ive even had run 1g of testo plus deca and dbol with no AI. However, if symptoms occur you can pop some adex once-twice a week or every 10 days by how you feel.

Also what I've noticed with Ai's is a significant loss of pump.
Nowadays to blast testosterone I'm doing almost 1:1 ratio test/masteron
or test;mast 1:0.5

I'm doing the same, test/mast 1:1... no ai.. but... I still have nipple sensitivity because of a pretty bad case of gyno from many years ago.. it's not bad enough for me to take anything and one day, if possible, I'll have the glands removed.. I feel great with my E high.. mast seems to keep it all in check.

 

[Test_Subject]

I go off of sides, not numbers.

If I start getting itchy nips, retaining a lot of water or my BP shoots up, I’ll slowly introduce an AI.

I definitely prefer to be on the higher end, though. I feel better and get better results.