How important is protein

[BigRed91]

Hey guys, so I've always been curious as to how important protein really is. I know when we workout it tears our muscle and protein rebuilds them bigger. But let's say u have a guy on cycle eating protein at .5g per lb of bodyweight and the same guy eating 1.5g per lb. Will he see drastically different growth?

 

[Silentlemon1011]

Hey guys, so I've always been curious as to how important protein really is. I know when we workout it tears our muscle and protein rebuilds them bigger. But let's say u have a guy on cycle eating protein at .5g per lb of bodyweight and the same guy eating 1.5g per lb. Will he see drastically different growth?

In short
Yes.

I was struggling with growth and had plateaued last year.

@Mac11wildcat talked with me and had me change my macros to include higher protein.

That's the only thing we changed.
Gains started up again immediatly by upping my.protein to 300g daily.
Makes. ig difference for me personally.

 

[BigRed91]

In short
Yes.

I was struggling with growth and had plateaued last year.

@Mac11wildcat talked with me and had me change my macros to include higher protein.

That's the only thing we changed.
Gains started up again immediatly by upping my.protein to 300g daily.
Makes. ig difference for me personally.

Awesome thanks for the input. Im like you I've been stuck at about 250-255lbs for a while and have just now started making sure I get my protein so hopefully it will make a difference.

 

[Demondosage]

Carbs are #1 in my book for building muscle. They trigger an insulin response, insulin is anabolic. They promote fluid retention in muscles, muscles are 75% fluid.

Way too many examples of extreme strength and size with average to sub par protien intake in different areas of the world.

1 gram per lb of body mass, that is good enough for me. And often times I feel better not bogging my system down with protien all day. But that's just my opinion

 

[malfeasance]

0.5 for a 200 pound bodybuilder would be 100 grams of protein. No, way.

Higher protein is better. 1 gram, like Demondosage says, would be substantially better than 0.5.

Personally, I go a little higher than that.

AND there are plenty of studies out there on this subject for persons losing fat. In every study, the higher protein subjects have better body composition at the end of the study period. Better body composition is the whole reason we do this stuff, right?

I think your results would be subpar on 0.5 grams per pound, and I would never suggest that for anybody.

 

[EazyE]

0.5 for a 200 pound bodybuilder would be 100 grams of protein. No, way.

Higher protein is better. 1 gram, like Demondosage says, would be substantially better than 0.5.

Personally, I go a little higher than that.

AND there are plenty of studies out there on this subject for persons losing fat. In every study, the higher protein subjects have better body composition at the end of the study period. Better body composition is the whole reason we do this stuff, right?

I think your results would be subpar on 0.5 grams per pound, and I would never suggest that for anybody.

I agree with you on protein requirements. I like 1.2g per pound of body weight. Minimum would be 1g for sure. I also like carb cycling to match my activity level on some days, but not always. Gotta find a good balance and then have some surplus for growth. The key is to regulate the surplus.

 

[BigRed91]

It would make sense that you'd need more protein to continue to grow. So what's got me to 255lbs won't get me to 275. It's just one of those plateaus where my body likes being this weight so I'll get at least 300g or more a day and see how that works

 

[Demondosage]

In most bodybuilding diets nowadays, the protien intake is higher than 1 gram per lb because it's being used as a gap filler. What I mean by a gap filler, is an amount that helps boost the cals up so ppl don't fall too far below-500 cals BMR and makes the diet more manageable to stick to when trying to drop fat.

NOW, in terms of building muscle. I could take 2 individuals and cut one of their protein intakes in half but double the carb intake, and the other one could double his protien intake but cut his carb intake, and I can tell you the one that will be bigger and stronger and it ain't the guy skimping on carbs and loading on protien.

 

[malfeasance]

In most bodybuilding diets nowadays, the protien intake is higher than 1 gram per lb because it's being used as a gap filler. What I mean by a gap filler, is an amount that helps boost the cals up so ppl don't fall too far below-500 cals BMR and makes the diet more manageable to stick to when trying to drop fat.

NOW, in terms of building muscle. I could take 2 individuals and cut one of their protein intakes in half but double the carb intake, and the other one could double his protien intake but cut his carb intake, and I can tell you the one that will be bigger and stronger and it ain't the guy skimping on carbs and loading on protien.

What if you have a third guy and have him increase both protein and carbs?

 

[BigRed91]

I guess I was just wondering is if you're hitting ur calories but not at the optimum protein level are you leaving gains on the table? And it appears so

 

[malfeasance]

I guess I was just wondering is if you're hitting ur calories but not at the optimum protein level are you leaving gains on the table? And it appears so

Well, sure, but the question is what is optimum?

I don't think anybody here thinks its half a gram per pound. The lowest is Demondosage, at 1 gram per pound.

I listen to a lot of IFBB pro podcasts, and nutrition is a frequent topic of discussion. I have heard at least half a dozen pros say that when some coach or other had them on a much higher protein diet (like 400-500 grams in some cases) that they made their best gains and had their best look.

None of them stuck to it long term, though. It is tough to eat that much protein.

 

[BigRed91]

Well, sure, but the question is what is optimum?

I don't think anybody here thinks its half a gram per pound. The lowest is Demondosage, at 1 gram per pound.

I listen to a lot of IFBB pro podcasts, and nutrition is a frequent topic of discussion. I have heard at least half a dozen pros say that when some coach or other had them on a much higher protein diet (like 400-500 grams in some cases) that they made their best gains and had their best look.

None of them stuck to it long term, though. It is tough to eat that much protein.

Oh really yea thats alot of protein and by no means am I takin in .5gram per lb just used it as a hypothetical but I also was not getting 1.5g a lb either. I just wanted real world experience from guys saying yay or nay that when they upped their protein their gains changed.

 

[Demondosage]

Well, sure, but the question is what is optimum?

I don't think anybody here thinks its half a gram per pound. The lowest is Demondosage, at 1 gram per pound.

I listen to a lot of IFBB pro podcasts, and nutrition is a frequent topic of discussion. I have heard at least half a dozen pros say that when some coach or other had them on a much higher protein diet (like 400-500 grams in some cases) that they made their best gains and had their best look.

None of them stuck to it long term, though. It is tough to eat that much protein.

I don't think it's ever been scientifically proven the body utilizes more than .8 grams per lb of lean mass. Now, maybe it's outdated information but I've never seen otherwise. This was information I got reading a lot of Ellington Darden material, so like I said possibly outdated

 

[Demondosage]

What if you have a third guy and have him increase both protein and carbs?

Imo there is a big misconception between required nutrients to grow versus required caloric intake to grow. Even at 300 grams of protien per day it's only 1200 calories from protien. Many guys are going to need an extra 3,000 calories a day on top of that. If they are scared of carbs and fats then they'll never get it in.

We are on the same page here, but what I'm referring to more is this belief that someone can eat boatloads of protien and start growing when required amounts other nutrients are absent. It leads to this belief that it's just not enough protien when that isn't the case.

 

[malfeasance]

I ain't scared of carbs, and you are discussing just about my diet now (300 protein and another 3000 calories on top of that). I thought I weighed 246 this morning, but, no, I had to pee a little, and after that I was 245.8. Damn it, I'm still 245.

More carbs!



I was, until very recently, eating fats at 120 grams minimum. @MuscleFreak convinced me to try lowering them and upping my carbs. Interestingly, lowering my fats helped out my intestinal difficulties a LOT. I don't think high fats and my digestive system got along very well. I don't think that is why he recommended it, but it has been a very nice, unanticipated benefit.

 

[Bumpygooch]

I don't think it's ever been scientifically proven the body utilizes more than .8 grams per lb of lean mass. Now, maybe it's outdated information but I've never seen otherwise. This was information I got reading a lot of Ellington Darden material, so like I said possibly outdated

The role of protein in weight loss and maintenance - PubMed

Over the past 20 y, higher-protein diets have been touted as a successful strategy to prevent or treat obesity through improvements in body weight management. These improvements are thought to be due, in part, to modulations in energy metabolism, appetite, and energy intake. Recent evidence also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this discusses protein well above that threshold

 

[Millard]

View: https://twitter.com/dougkalmanphdrd/status/1378327981253361665?s=20


"These findings suggest that slightly increasing current protein intake for several months by 0.1 g/kg/d in a dose-dependent manner over a range of doses from 0.5 to 3.5 g/kg/d may increase or maintain lean body mass."

 

[Ridethelightningbarefoot]

I have found it not that easy to define. I have found I can get away with anywhere from .8g per lb and in my experience on gear I havent seen much difference after 1g/lb. When I was natty it seemed like I needed more which is what you will find in research as well. Also I never diet without carbs which is also protein sparing so could also be a factor why I can get away with less protein which also something you will find from diet science.

 

[malfeasance]

The role of protein in weight loss and maintenance - PubMed

Over the past 20 y, higher-protein diets have been touted as a successful strategy to prevent or treat obesity through improvements in body weight management. These improvements are thought to be due, in part, to modulations in energy metabolism, appetite, and energy intake. Recent evidence also...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

this discusses protein well above that threshold

That's 1.2-1.6 per kg, not per pound

 

[Bumpygooch]

That's 1.2-1.6 per kg, not per pound

I was going through the other thread “1g protein,” and pulled this one out. In my haste, I may have pulled the wrong study.