How long does it take for tolerance to HGH to disappear?

[smartgear]

I heard that the longer you take HGH, the more antibodies are built and less IGF-1 there will be.

But I didn't understand if this applies to systemic and local IGF-1 or only to systemic IGF-1.

If GH levels are 5.88 ng/mL, can this keep local IGF-1 high, even when tolerance is built to systemic IGF-1? Does the tolerance affect the 2 types of IGF-1 or only the first type?

How long does it take for tolerance to be built and how long should I be off HGH for the tolerance to disappear?

Isn't there a substance that clears the receptors and removes the tolerance without me having to cycle off and wait?

 

[topia]

This is interesting because in most HGH clinical trials they will have the children take regular, even daily doses for months and years. Medical professionals aren't a big fan of "cycling"

 

[smartgear]

This is interesting because in most HGH clinical trials they will have the children take regular, even daily doses for months and years. Medical professionals aren't a big fan of "cycling"

They are using therapeutic and replacement doses such as 1 or 2 IUs a day, these doses keep their GH levels within the reference range.

I'm using higher doses, such as 5 IUs a day, that make my GH level to be above the reference range.

It's understandable that tolerance doesn't built-up when GH level is within reference range. But what about when GH is above reference range for a very long time, and IGF-1 is also high although it's not above the reference range?

 

[topia]

They are using therapeutic and replacement doses such as 1 or 2 IUs a day, these doses keep their GH levels within the reference range.

I'm using higher doses, such as 5 IUs a day, that make my GH level to be above the reference range.

It's understandable that tolerance doesn't built-up when GH level is within reference range. But what about when GH is above reference range for a very long time, and IGF-1 is also high although it's not above the reference range?

My question is, why would a significant amount of antibodies be produced to "destroy" IGF-1 when your body produces this hormone by itself?

 

[hghlover]

Tons of people in here run HGH year round and have super high IGF 1 levels, by blood work. Not sure where this whole tolerance thing is coming from, as it's certainly not matched by real world blood work.

 

[smartgear]

Tons of people in here run HGH year round and have super high IGF 1 levels, by blood work. Not sure where this whole tolerance thing is coming from, as it's certainly not matched by real world blood work.

A supposedly experienced member on this forum told me about this tolerance a few days ago.

 

[TomGlass]

I heard that the longer you take HGH, the more antibodies are built and less IGF-1 there will be.

But I didn't understand if this applies to systemic and local IGF-1 or only to systemic IGF-1.

You only need to be concerned with "systemic" igf1 and developing antibodies is not a guarantee, it's rare. DMR....

 

[smartgear]

You only need to be concerned with "systemic" igf1 and developing antibodies is not a guarantee, it's rare. DMR....

Well, @BigTomJ said systemic IGF-1 doesn't matter and it's the local IGF-1 that matters. Who to believe?

As for my IGF-1, it's 250 ng/mL (reference range upper end is 350 ng/mL) when I'm in 5 IUs a day. It seems I don't have good metabolism because IGF-1 is low for the dose I use and the GH level I have, which is 5.88 ng/mL when the reference range upper end is 3.00 ng/mL.

 

[BigTomJ]

Well, @BigTomJ said systemic IGF-1 doesn't matter and it's the local IGF-1 that matters. Who to believe?

As for my IGF-1, it's 250 ng/mL (reference range upper end is 350 ng/mL) when I'm in 5 IUs a day. It seems I don't have good metabolism because IGF-1 is low for the dose I use and the GH level I have, which is 5.88 ng/mL when the reference range upper end is 3.00 ng/mL.

You misunderstood me.

Systemic IGF-1 matters, but its not indicative of local IGF-1, which is what matters for muscle growth.

Bloodwork analysis for IGF-1 only measures systemic IGF-1 and includes IGF-1 bound to IGFBP's (I believe), that systemic IGF-1 is circulating and will be shuttled throughout the body, but it does not tell you how much is making it into the muscle. We have no reason to believe that systemic IGF-1 as measured on bloodwork would correlate to a fixed or predictable increase in local IGF-1, must less to make the assumption that that increase is linear.

in short, IGF-1 level as indicated in bloodwork isnt that useful of a data point other than to gauge the validity of your GH or your individual response to that dose of GH.

@Type-IIx has recently made some posts regarding this and may have more to add.

 

[BigTomJ]

citation requested for the whole "antibody" hypothesis

 

[smartgear]

You misunderstood me.

Systemic IGF-1 matters, but its not indicative of local IGF-1, which is what matters for muscle growth.

Bloodwork analysis for IGF-1 only measures systemic IGF-1 and includes IGF-1 bound to IGFBP's (I believe), that systemic IGF-1 is circulating and will be shuttled throughout the body, but it does not tell you how much is making it into the muscle. We have no reason to believe that systemic IGF-1 as measured on bloodwork would correlate to a fixed or predictable increase in local IGF-1, must less to make the assumption that that increase is linear.

in short, IGF-1 level as indicated in bloodwork isnt that useful of a data point other than to gauge the validity of your GH or your individual response to that dose of GH.

@Type-IIx has recently made some posts regarding this and may have more to add.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[TomGlass]

citation requested for the whole "antibody" hypothesis

I don't know if "rare" was the right word but antibodies are not common according to these studies.
I'm a novice and am simply stating my understanding of hgh thus far.

Subcutaneous versus intramuscular growth hormone therapy: growth and acute somatomedin response - PubMed

To determine the optimal route of growth hormone administration, a comparison was made of the acute somatomedin response and chronic growth response to either intramuscular or subcutaneous growth hormone in 20 children with growth hormone deficiency. None of the children had received growth...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Growth hormone antibodies formation in patients treated with recombinant human growth hormone - PubMed

Human growth hormone (hGH) is normally produced by acidophilic cells of the anterior lobe of the pituitary gland. Recombinant DNA technology has made it possible to produce rhGH. There have been reports of immunological reactions in patients treated with rhGH. For this reason, it is necessary to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[BigTomJ]

I don't know if "rare" was the right word but antibodies are not common according to these studies.
I'm a novice and am simply stating my understanding of hgh thus far.

Subcutaneous versus intramuscular growth hormone therapy: growth and acute somatomedin response - PubMed

To determine the optimal route of growth hormone administration, a comparison was made of the acute somatomedin response and chronic growth response to either intramuscular or subcutaneous growth hormone in 20 children with growth hormone deficiency. None of the children had received growth...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Growth hormone antibodies formation in patients treated with recombinant human growth hormone - PubMed

Human growth hormone (hGH) is normally produced by acidophilic cells of the anterior lobe of the pituitary gland. Recombinant DNA technology has made it possible to produce rhGH. There have been reports of immunological reactions in patients treated with rhGH. For this reason, it is necessary to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

| 10.1177/039463200401700105_Science Hub

www.tesble.com

Full text.

 

[Type-IIx]

You misunderstood me.

Systemic IGF-1 matters, but its not indicative of local IGF-1, which is what matters for muscle growth.

Bloodwork analysis for IGF-1 only measures systemic IGF-1 and includes IGF-1 bound to IGFBP's (I believe), that systemic IGF-1 is circulating and will be shuttled throughout the body, but it does not tell you how much is making it into the muscle. We have no reason to believe that systemic IGF-1 as measured on bloodwork would correlate to a fixed or predictable increase in local IGF-1, must less to make the assumption that that increase is linear.

in short, IGF-1 level as indicated in bloodwork isnt that useful of a data point other than to gauge the validity of your GH or your individual response to that dose of GH.

@Type-IIx has recently made some posts regarding this and may have more to add.

Serum (blood, circulating liver-secreted, systemic) IGF-I is a proxy for IGF-IEa local autocrine/paracrine activity because the former is a pool from which the latter draws. Certainly, agents like trenbolone, that increase the former and decrease the latter (my theory is by accelerating the "pull" on the former from the skeletal muscle) cause a dissociation. But generally, there is a positive association, between autocrine/paracrine IGF-IEa and cIGF-I.

 

[Primoisthebest]

They are using therapeutic and replacement doses such as 1 or 2 IUs a day, these doses keep their GH levels within the reference range.

I'm using higher doses, such as 5 IUs a day, that make my GH level to be above the reference range.

It's understandable that tolerance doesn't built-up when GH level is within reference range. But what about when GH is above reference range for a very long time, and IGF-1 is also high although it's not above the reference range?

You are referencing anti aging doses at 1 or 2 iu. For short stature children the dosages are much higher. Doses up to .47mg/kg bodyweight/week are common. So a 70lb kid would get about 6iu/day. Same for Serostim prescribed to aids patients at much higher dosages.

 

[Kdubswoldgier]

I've noticed if I skip my daily hgh dose and take blood sugar lowering meds (acrabose in particular) I get the numb hands effect more so that day... Not sure if this is of value to this thread but maybe more advanced members can give their take on this bc I'm curious