How necessary is HCG??

[Jamie Sutherland]

Hey guys,

I made a post a few days ago on here about my first cycle that I'm thinking of running. It looks something like this:

Week 1-12:
Test E - 400mg
Aromasin - 12.5mg EOD

Week 13-14:
OFF

Week 15-16:
Nolvadex - 40mg ED

Week 17-18:
Nolvadex - 20mg ED

I got good feedback on this so far, but I was just wondering if I should include HCG somewhere in here. I would like to keep as much of the gains I make on cycle as I can, once I get off. So my question is.. could I get away without using HCG in this cycle OR is it essential to use in order to keep gains?

Being honest, I would rather not use HCG if I can get away with it, just to keep my first cycle as simple as possible. I've also read that your body can become reliant on HCG for test production if you use it. Anyway, let me know your thoughts!!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Deiselhannock]

Hey guys,

I made a post a few days ago on here about my first cycle that I'm thinking of running. It looks something like this:

Week 1-12:
Test E - 400mg
Aromasin - 12.5mg EOD

Week 13-14:
OFF

Week 15-16:
Nolvadex - 40mg ED

Week 17-18:
Nolvadex - 20mg ED

I got good feedback on this so far, but I was just wondering if I should include HCG somewhere in here. I would like to keep as much of the gains I make on cycle as I can, once I get off. So my question is.. could I get away without using HCG in this cycle OR is it essential to use in order to keep gains?

Being honest, I would rather not use HCG if I can get away with it, just to keep my first cycle as simple as possible. I've also read that your body can become reliant on HCG for test production if you use it. Anyway, let me know your thoughts!!

Thanks in advance!

Personally not much experience here but I just did the 10 week test e 600mg week and bounced back no problem! I didn't even use pct was stupid and will next go my water retention was brutal. Everyone is different but there's gotta be someone on here with some good info on hcg good luck!

 

[FiftyShadezOfOrange]

First of all I'd like to mention that at that dose PCT should be started about 20 days after your last shot. Considering Test Enan has a half life of 10 days, your body would still be in a "high testosterone" state any time before 20 days, making the PCT meds redundant. They're best started when your body has less than 100mg of Test in your system for them to be most effective.

hCG during such a cycle is 100% not necessary and would add little benefit in this case. But no one can deny it would significantly improve recovery if you used it during that 20 day period, up to 5 days before your start the Nolva. This would have your testicles return to production before the HPTA axis is switched on, easing your way back into normalization with minimum "down-time". Also if the Nolva isn't expensive or in short supply I suggest you run the entire 3-4 weeks with 20 mg x2 a day.

I would rather not use HCG if I can get away with it, just to keep my first cycle as simple as possible. I've also read that your body can become reliant on HCG for test production if you use it.

hCG is easily injected Sub-Q so it's usually no hassle. Also your body will not become reliant on hCG for test production, what you probably read was that a person can become desensitized to hCG after prolonged use at high doses.

 

[JayGunz]

First of all I'd like to mention that at that dose PCT should be started about 20 days after your last shot. Considering Test Enan has a half life of 10 days, your body would still be in a "high testosterone" state any time before 20 days, making the PCT meds redundant. They're best started when your body has less than 100mg of Test in your system for them to be most effective.

hCG during such a cycle is 100% not necessary and would add little benefit in this case. But no one can deny it would significantly improve recovery if you used it during that 20 day period, up to 5 days before your start the Nolva. This would have your testicles return to production before the HPTA axis is switched on, easing your way back into normalization with minimum "down-time". Also if the Nolva isn't expensive or in short supply I suggest you run the entire 3-4 weeks with 20 mg x2 a day.


hCG is easily injected Sub-Q so it's usually no hassle. Also your body will not become reliant on hCG for test production, what you probably read was that a person can become desensitized to hCG after prolonged use at high doses.

@FiftyShadezOfOrange is right, but I wouldn't say it's 100% not needed. A lot of it depends on a few factors, like age and if you plan on having kids anytime soon. HCG will prevent testicular shrinkage (which normally isn't a problem on your dosage, like fifty was saying) and it keeps sperm production going. If you plan on having kids, it's a good idea to include it "just in case". The last thing you would want is no sperm recovery, even if it is unlikely.

My personal preference is taking it during the cycle, but the blast that fifty was talking about is pretty common too.

 

[master.on]

Hey guys,

I made a post a few days ago on here about my first cycle that I'm thinking of running. It looks something like this:

Week 1-12:
Test E - 400mg
Aromasin - 12.5mg EOD

Week 13-14:
OFF

Week 15-16:
Nolvadex - 40mg ED

Week 17-18:
Nolvadex - 20mg ED

I got good feedback on this so far, but I was just wondering if I should include HCG somewhere in here. I would like to keep as much of the gains I make on cycle as I can, once I get off. So my question is.. could I get away without using HCG in this cycle OR is it essential to use in order to keep gains?

Being honest, I would rather not use HCG if I can get away with it, just to keep my first cycle as simple as possible. I've also read that your body can become reliant on HCG for test production if you use it. Anyway, let me know your thoughts!!

Thanks in advance!

While 400 mg for 12 weeks may not be that suppressive
HCG is cheap insurance
a 5000 IU vial may cost less than $50 (buy real big pharma)
You can make it last 10 weeks at 500 IU/wk

Personally I like to extend HCG use into pct
so you may start HCG on week 4
cycle stops on week 12 so you remain on HCG for 2 weeks after the cycle ends.

You can also use some just 5 mg Nolva for the last 4 weeks and 2 weeks into pct (6 weeks total), to block some estrogen in case you're gyno-prone, and it makes recovery easier.
Don't overdo Nolva either, unless you're using massive doses of aromatizing roids for several weeks.

 

[Leancuisine]

While 400 mg for 12 weeks may not be that suppressive
HCG is cheap insurance
a 5000 IU vial may cost less than $50 (buy real big pharma)
You can make it last 10 weeks at 500 IU/wk

Personally I like to extend HCG use into pct
so you may start HCG on week 4
cycle stops on week 12 so you remain on HCG for 2 weeks after the cycle ends.

You can also use some just 5 mg Nolva for the last 4 weeks and 2 weeks into pct (6 weeks total), to block some estrogen in case you're gyno-prone, and it makes recovery easier.
Don't overdo Nolva either, unless you're using massive doses of aromatizing roids for several weeks.

May not be that suppressive!?! Are you joking?
Testosterone at 100mg/wk is suppressive. Testosterone at any dose is suppressive.

HCG is also suppressive on your leutenizing hormone, so using it at any point when you are trying to recover is counter productive.
HMG works. Clomid works. HCG mimics LH, but does not make your body produce more.

If HCG made your body produce LH, then it would not be useful on cycle.


HCG is a waste in my opinion. Unless you have a problem with having little nuts, don't worry about using HCG.

 

[Jamie Sutherland]

Thanks for the re

First of all I'd like to mention that at that dose PCT should be started about 20 days after your last shot. Considering Test Enan has a half life of 10 days, your body would still be in a "high testosterone" state any time before 20 days, making the PCT meds redundant. They're best started when your body has less than 100mg of Test in your system for them to be most effective.

hCG during such a cycle is 100% not necessary and would add little benefit in this case. But no one can deny it would significantly improve recovery if you used it during that 20 day period, up to 5 days before your start the Nolva. This would have your testicles return to production before the HPTA axis is switched on, easing your way back into normalization with minimum "down-time". Also if the Nolva isn't expensive or in short supply I suggest you run the entire 3-4 weeks with 20 mg x2 a day.


hCG is easily injected Sub-Q so it's usually no hassle. Also your body will not become reliant on hCG for test production, what you probably read was that a person can become desensitized to hCG after prolonged use at high doses.

Thanks for the response mate. I think I'll take 3 weeks off before PCT instead of 2 then!

As for the HCG, I think I'm going to leave it (at least for my first cycle) just to keep things as cheap and simple as possible for my first cycle.

 

[Jamie Sutherland]

@FiftyShadezOfOrange is right, but I wouldn't say it's 100% not needed. A lot of it depends on a few factors, like age and if you plan on having kids anytime soon. HCG will prevent testicular shrinkage (which normally isn't a problem on your dosage, like fifty was saying) and it keeps sperm production going. If you plan on having kids, it's a good idea to include it "just in case". The last thing you would want is no sperm recovery, even if it is unlikely.

My personal preference is taking it during the cycle, but the blast that fifty was talking about is pretty common too.

Haha I have a kid and I'm not too concerned about having another one . I just want to make sure that I recover my natural test quick enough to keep most of the gains I make. Do you think I would be fine without it?

 

[Alex.stmpnk]

While 400 mg for 12 weeks may not be that suppressive
HCG is cheap insurance
a 5000 IU vial may cost less than $50 (buy real big pharma)
You can make it last 10 weeks at 500 IU/wk

Personally I like to extend HCG use into pct
so you may start HCG on week 4
cycle stops on week 12 so you remain on HCG for 2 weeks after the cycle ends.

You can also use some just 5 mg Nolva for the last 4 weeks and 2 weeks into pct (6 weeks total), to block some estrogen in case you're gyno-prone, and it makes recovery easier.
Don't overdo Nolva either, unless you're using massive doses of aromatizing roids for several weeks.

Make a vial last 10 weeks?? How do you do that?? I read that even if using bacteriostatic water it can last only for about 30 days

 

[master.on]

Make a vial last 10 weeks?? How do you do that?? I read that even if using bacteriostatic water it can last only for about 30 days

1 Refrigerate it

2 degradation is exaggerated
to the FDA any med is worthless once it gets down to 90% potency

 

[FiftyShadezOfOrange]

Haha I have a kid and I'm not too concerned about having another one . I just want to make sure that I recover my natural test quick enough to keep most of the gains I make. Do you think I would be fine without it?

Honestly if you're really concerned with keeping most of your gains then you should use the hCG in that period before PCT. Minimizing "down-time" means minimizing when your body is in a catabolic state. In the end it's all comes down to what the benefits-costs-risks are to you, but there's a majority consensus that it would be wise to include it good luck!

 

[Deleted member 59947]

First of all I'd like to mention that at that dose PCT should be started about 20 days after your last shot. Considering Test Enan has a half life of 10 days, your body would still be in a "high testosterone" state any time before 20 days, making the PCT meds redundant. They're best started when your body has less than 100mg of Test in your system for them to be most effective.

hCG during such a cycle is 100% not necessary and would add little benefit in this case. But no one can deny it would significantly improve recovery if you used it during that 20 day period, up to 5 days before your start the Nolva. This would have your testicles return to production before the HPTA axis is switched on, easing your way back into normalization with minimum "down-time". Also if the Nolva isn't expensive or in short supply I suggest you run the entire 3-4 weeks with 20 mg x2 a day.


hCG is easily injected Sub-Q so it's usually no hassle. Also your body will not become reliant on hCG for test production, what you probably read was that a person can become desensitized to hCG after prolonged use at high doses.

Wrong.

HCG enables two things:

- ensures DHEA and Pregnenolone are still being made (as the they will be shutdown with exogenous T)
- ensures your balls keep the habit of functioning to smoothly recover post cycle.

 

[FiftyShadezOfOrange]

Wrong.

HCG enables two things:

- ensures DHEA and Pregnenolone are still being made (as the they will be shutdown with exogenous T)
- ensures your balls keep the habit of functioning to smoothly recover post cycle.

Yes the benefits of DHEA and Pregnenolone of oftentimes looked over, but still.. For a short, moderate dose straightforward Test cycle such as this I still believe he will experience no downsides from not incorp. hCG into the cycle itself. If he was using Deca and going on for 14-16+ weeks then yeah them being suppressed that long can have adverse effects. But I guess your method would be fault-proof and airtight in terms of any loss of functionality.