How "strong" would you rank Primo/Mast as vs Test?

[JP RIGGS]

Primo & mast have really gained some popularity these last few years. I thought mast was pretty weak when I ran it at 400mgs weekly with 400mgs test. Could it have been under-dosed, sure its UGL. All the guys I've seen praising those 2 compounds are all running GH with it. I'd compare 400mgs mast to 100mgs test added to that cycle. It was pricey also but I wanted to see what all the hype was about.

 

[MadaFacor]

Refer back to my original post in this thread, I consider calling compound A vs B stronger to be kinda disingenuous and doesn't convey the nuance properly.

They are different tools and their efficacy is going to vary more by the individual than by the compound themselves.

For me they are night and day.
-I get light/mild AI effect from primo, and zero from EQ.
-primo has a positive effect on my mental state/sense of wellbeing, with very little perceivable effect of physical performance. EQ is the opposite with having no impact on my perceived wellbeing but notably increases appetite and training performance.
-primo makes no significant difference in my bloodwork. EQ drives my crit up quickly, making hydration and blood donations much more important.

I can't confidently say in good faith that one grows more tissue as a result of the compound itself better than the other, however their secondary contributing effects might lead to more muscle at the end of the day with one vs the other (ie the increased training capacity and performance with EQ). But that's specifically the nuance that I am saying is missed when saying blindly "compound a is stronger than compound b"

It's more complicated than that and a simply 7 word statement doesn't capture that complexity.

I appreciate the detailed a thoughtful response.

 

[Enzo1a]

I’d say they are both less than half as strong as test. Primo is slightly stronger than mast and does works as an ai, BUT it’s expensive and pip is fucked. Mast makes you feel and look good but has no effect on e2 and I feel almost no anabolism from it.
Not a big fan tbh, trying eq now but honestly leaning towards test only with ai to regulate e2

 

[bighunanballs]

Relying on high dose primo for anabolism though isn’t the best use of money

No that's why masteron is nice. 1-2 grams of masteron per week still has very minimal sides compared to any other anabolic.

A lot of talking out of asses in here because no one truly knows the actual amount of tissue accumulation of each drug there's no studies that take muscle biopsy in humans to show what the actual tissue accumulation is. All of these drugs have different mechanisms and metabolites with varying amounts of water retention some in the muscles, some dispersed elsewhere. Testerone does indeed make you retain a lot more water in the muscle which adds to the hydraulic force of the muscle but we simply don't know what the actual tissue cell accumulation of each of these drugs are. Plenty of people have experienced gains running high doses of masteron in off season. It's also a great "condiment" drug as @Spaceman Spiff said. It attenuates the action of other drugs. For me it's been as anabolic as primo at low doses but because primo sucks and acts as a powerful AI I can never run it high like I can masteron. Masteron in high doses has been a game changer for me for years. Although until recently I've never tried running low test with it. This is new and is a great way to titrate up anabolism without adding sides from higher test when cruising.

 

[Wolf7]

I’d say they are both less than half as strong as test. Primo is slightly stronger than mast and does works as an ai, BUT it’s expensive and pip is fucked. Mast makes you feel and look good but has no effect on e2 and I feel almost no anabolism from it.
Not a big fan tbh, trying eq now but honestly leaning towards test only with ai to regulate e2

EQ is good. Takes a good few weeks for it to saturate, so give it a fair chance. Its a great, all round compound if you’re cutting or bulking.

 

[Eddie.]

No that's why masteron is nice. 1-2 grams of masteron per week still has very minimal sides compared to any other anabolic.

Yeah, minimal sides and minimal effect apparently. Have you seen dr Todd Lee how he ended up yesterday? He was taking like, 350mg mast a day with low test? He ended up competing 175lb in 212 division and taking the last place, he was stringy af and with no muscles at all. Not a big success for someone he's promoting very high mast cycles off season and contest prep.

 

[narta]

Yeah, minimal sides and minimal effect apparently. Have you seen dr Todd Lee how he ended up yesterday? He was taking like, 350mg mast a day with low test? He ended up competing 175lb in 212 division and taking the last place, he was stringy af and with no muscles at all. Not a big success for someone he's promoting very high mast cycles off season and contest prep.

Problem wasn't the drugs but he missed his conditioning. Just like Mike Israetel. Being smart in theory doesn't mean you can put it in practice. Biology is not numbers and theories.

 

[bighunanballs]

John Jewett is a better example Todd Lee is a little garden gnome dude looks like he's about to die

 

[bighunanballs]

Yeah, minimal sides and minimal effect apparently. Have you seen dr Todd Lee how he ended up yesterday? He was taking like, 350mg mast a day with low test? He ended up competing 175lb in 212 division and taking the last place, he was stringy af and with no muscles at all. Not a big success for someone he's promoting very high mast cycles off season and contest prep.

Agreed the Todd look like shit just goes to show you theory isn't everything. For me it's been working great. Worked great for John Jewett I believe in 2020 to 2023. Plenty of IFBB pros will run 500-1000mg masteron on top of higher test and usually EQ or nandrolone in off season. It's a good way to add anabolic load with almost no sides. If it did nothing pros wouldn't add it to their mix.

 

[Eddie.]

Problem wasn't the drugs but he missed his conditioning. Just like Mike Israetel. Being smart in theory doesn't mean you can put it in practice. Biology is not numbers and theories.

Conditioning and bad peaking was one of his problems. Going to a 212 show at 175lb was another one and this is comes to how much muscle he carried in the first place and how much he actually retained. I don't know much details but still i don't think he was aiming for that low bodyweight.

Agreed the Todd look like shit just goes to show you theory isn't everything. For me it's been working great. Worked great for John Jewett I believe in 2020 to 2023. Plenty of IFBB pros will run 500-1000mg masteron on top of higher test and usually EQ or nandrolone in off season. It's a good way to add anabolic load with almost no sides. If it did nothing pros wouldn't add it to their mix.

Man, John Jewett is a wizard, he's a unique individual which everyone in the world is talking about and as i said in a previous post i believe he could still grow with his 1,5gr test and 10IU GH no matter what. Mast is just complements his cycle.

And yeah, as you're saying it's a nice addition but it seems it's too week on it's own. 300 test + 700 mast, 300 test + 700 EQ, 300 test + 700 deca or 1gr test solo, which cycle would yield the least amount of muscle growth?

 

[Liter O' Test]

yeah Mike Isreatel running high primo and High Mast right?
really not putting points on the board for the big brains.

this whole all milligrams are equal thing is such nonsense and i genuinely cannot believe intelligent people are seemingly falling for it.

compared to the "all steroids are equal" crowd, flat-earthers have some good points

 

[bighunanballs]

yeah Mike Isreatel running high primo and High Mast right?
really not putting points on the board for the big brains.

this whole all milligrams are equal thing is such nonsense and i genuinely cannot believe intelligent people are seemingly falling for it.

compared to the "all steroids are equal" crowd, flat-earthers have some good points

Did Mike ever detail his cycles?

 

[ackmack78]

bro i havent even seen anyone talk about running a standard cycle of like 600mg test 400mg deca 50mg anadrol in forever.

Basically with all this openness about steroids now, it attracts a bunch of nerds that want to take steroids to biohack themselves and treat steroids like another supplement. Instead of trying to get huge they want to "increase nitrogen retention". 160lbs and talking about " nongenomic affects on the receptor from oxandrolone". Microdosing EQ .

I've dipped my toe into other places relating to steroids and I've been unironically preached to by guys on their first cycle (or cycle 0) about "intelligent cycle design". guys wanting "studies" to prove basic information , or if a study didn't specifically mention "X" then it must not have happened.

its really just the dunning krueger effect on a bunch of people that want to take steroids to fix whatever is wrong with them, so these low dose lifestyle cycles and compounds are appealing to them. They like the idea of being "on"

That's my next cycle 600 test 450 Deca 22 weeks with 50 drol for the last 4 weeks. Hoping to add some solid weight. Will probably throw in 200 mast, I've found it beneficial when running npp before.

 

[UncleBuns]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1YF9Uv2x9s&list=PLhB9QHZc60aj2tzC48MmeY03ULd6NUpzi&index=7

yeah Mike Isreatel running high primo and High Mast right?
really not putting points on the board for the big brains.

this whole all milligrams are equal thing is such nonsense and i genuinely cannot believe intelligent people are seemingly falling for it.

compared to the "all steroids are equal" crowd, flat-earthers have some good points

Did you even watch the video that you linked me to? I don't think you did and if you did your listening skills are terrible because the video goes against what you were arguing here. There's even a main part of a video where they show that primo and test have THE SAME level of anabolism.

What's funny about your flat earther comment is that you seem to share a lot with flat earthers. You very loudy and confidently spout your opinion even though current hard evidence goes against it. If you genuinely can't believe that most AAS is similar maybe try actually watching that video you linked?

 

[Liter O' Test]

Did you even watch the video that you linked me to? I don't think you did and if you did your listening skills are terrible because the video goes against what you were arguing here. There's even a main part of a video where they show that primo and test have THE SAME level of anabolism.

What's funny about your flat earther comment is that you seem to share a lot with flat earthers. You very loudy and confidently spout your opinion even though current hard evidence goes against it. If you genuinely can't believe that most AAS is similar maybe try actually watching that video you linked?

My takeaways from the video are that different compounds have different strengths and the response to each dose isn't linear. This is literally the point I have made and thus why I linked the video

The study weighed the taints of rats, Its not a study comparing testosterone to primobolan, I don't think we can be this specific, especially because the study is from 1970 and it is difficult to train a rat to bench press 8-12 reps to failure.

What's funny about your flat earther comment is that you seem to share a lot with flat earthers. You very loudy and confidently spout your opinion even though current hard evidence goes against it. If you genuinely can't believe that most AAS is similar maybe try actually watching that video you linked?

How can you insult my listening skills when right here it shows a 50% difference between 2 compounds.

it looks like you are accusing me of what you have done.

 

[Liter O' Test]

Did Mike ever detail his cycles?

He believes in the low test approach and has referred to cycles for other people like 200mg test 800mg primo.

I remember him saying 2.1-2.5g cycles of low test/mast/primo/var somewhere

On canadian beef podcast he talks about taking 100mg anavar pre workout.

(this interview is really good)


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2clbyjHyEDA&t=1381s


on fouad podcast he says 100 test 800 primo 100 tren week, 100 var preworkout


View: https://youtu.be/tlVMhIOALxA?si=IYgaVarydAIc2AiL&t=2187

 

[narta]

All steroids are NOT equal. That's retarded.

 

[expylon]

Masteron is actually stronger than primobolan

Masteron's dad can beat up primo's dad

 

[explodingHeart]

Yeah, minimal sides and minimal effect apparently. Have you seen dr Todd Lee how he ended up yesterday? He was taking like, 350mg mast a day with low test? He ended up competing 175lb in 212 division and taking the last place, he was stringy af and with no muscles at all. Not a big success for someone he's promoting very high mast cycles off season and contest prep.

I suspect he started high dose GH (15-20 iu he said) the same time he started the high mast cycles.

I think he's 5'4 or 5'5. Says he was about 10% at 230 lbs. Then finds out his "gains" were mostly water from GH.

I'm just shooting in the dark here. Could be totally wrong.

It does look very damning for cycles without high test/deca/EQ. And I suppose Jewett is just a freak who will grow on anything.

 

[bighunanballs]

I'm not so sure Jewett was running low test with his masteron off season cycles. I think this may be a Todd Lee only thing. I know Jewett has mentioned he will sub in mast with primo interchangeably and they seem to both be similarly anabolic but he "told Kurt havens", "he prefers primobolin". The jury is still out on low test high masteron but I'm liking it for myself on this long term cut cruise. The only negative I have to report so far is my face is looking old as a grandpas ball sack now. It could simply be the extreme drop in bodyfat couple of with the fact that I'm almost 40 now but a decade ago these high masteron cycles never made me look this shitty in the face.