How the Hell did I get Gyno? (Have labs)

[fightandorflight]

This is my 4th cycle. I'm 6 ftish, now 210 14% BF (started cycle at 195 lbs 13%). . I started off this journey 2 years ago at 175 12%. Always tended toward ecto with decent strength. I'm early 40's lifting since I was about 16. Lifts are 1rm bench 335, 2 reps for 425 squat, 1 rep for 495 deads. Nothing special but I'm happy with my progress and health has been good throughout all of this. My goal for the cycle was about 20lbs mass while keeping bf at or below 15%. Trying to get some decent strength gains and better low body development.

Last fall winter I did 500 test cyp + 300 NPP. Good cycle with minimal sides.
This bulk season I decided to do 350TPP, 350 NPP, and 750 Bold Blend per week. I also added a 40mg Dbol kicker which I dc'd 2 weeks in because I just didn't like the bloat and kinda felt like a turd. I was running Asin 12.5 EOD and never had problems with gyno or E2 previously. I quit the EQ after my BP kept creeping up and nosebleeds, headaches, etc at 6.5 weeks in. Then I donated blood. Felt better. I added HCG at week 4, 250 x 2 week cause my balls shriveled. Have kept that going until I recently noticed my first ever gyno flare:

Beginning of last week, looking in mirror and noticed white colored skin tissue extending about 1/3 inch circumference out from my nipples. Then I flexed and pressed and felt tell tale sign of gyno lump (pea sized +) under right nipple and just a bit of the white flabby looking tissue in small circumference. Not super noticeable. No leakage. But definitely not optimal. Sore to touch but not otherwise. I didn't itch before it came on. I didn't notice any pain or tingling previously. I don't stare in the mirror a lot etc, so its quite possible this started awhile ago.

I got labs done immediately (I was due for mid cycle labs anyway) and my E2 is at 16 up from 12 to start cycle. Prolactin shows low at 3.1 (I didn't get it tested pre-cycle). Test > 1500 (not capped). Can't seem to upload labs pdf directly at work. Will try later at home.

Since this discovery (1 week ago) I have been running Ralox 60mg daily and asin 25mg daily. Planning to do Ralox x 1 month to 6 weeks and bump up after 2 weeks if I don't notice improvement. Also was going to step down the Asin after 2 weeks to 12.5 ED and then eventually back down to 12.5 EOD. With my E2 what it is I'm staying away from letro, although I have some. I'm retesting every 2 weeks. I've also stopped the assumed possible offending agents of nandrolone and HCG and now just running test bumped to 600 (ran at that level previously with ZERO issues) and 75mg var to finish off cycle hopefully while getting the gyno under control.

Wondering why I got the gyno with normal to low levels of E2 and prolactin? Also, does the protocol to address sound reasonable? its not a seemingly horrible gyno issue but I don't want it to become permanent. Appreciate any and all feedback.

 

[Spooby]

Ever had your progesterone looked at? Estrogen receptors might be sensitized till the point where you're getting the gyno activity.

 

[fightandorflight]

Thought about that. I’m thinking more and more the hcg is the culprit which might implicate progesterone. I certainly don’t mind the time and money to get labs. Just don’t want to repeat a mistake in ignorance in the future

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Thought about that. I’m thinking more and more the hcg is the culprit which might implicate progesterone. I certainly don’t mind the time and money to get labs. Just don’t want to repeat a mistake in ignorance in the future

Evom1 is that you?

Obviously hiding info. Bet you ran Arimidex instead of asin. Can't mix Nolva or Nandrolone with Adex or Letrozole.

I also doubt you ran a moderate dosage of dbol when all your other dosages are maxed out.

No lab evidence and immediately became defensive about posting the evidence E2 numbers.

I call bs

Accept the reality and stop trying to hear only what you want to hear. TELL THE TRUTH and stop hiding your screw ups

 

[ickyrica]

I call bs

I call bs on your mother. Can you slap her for giving birth to you?

 

[fightandorflight]

Evom1 is that you?

Obviously hiding info. Bet you ran Arimidex instead of asin. Can't mix Nolva or Nandrolone with Adex or Letrozole.

I also doubt you ran a moderate dosage of dbol when all your other dosages are maxed out.

No lab evidence and immediately became defensive about posting the evidence E2 numbers.

I call bs

Accept the reality and stop trying to hear only what you want to hear. TELL THE TRUTH and stop hiding your screw ups

Who the fuck are you? Go back to gobbling that bag o’ dicks.

Everything is what I said.
100mgTPP, 100mg NPP every other day from PPL (blend). 3700 to 4000 cals. Stopped the dbol 40mg I had from a long ago PCOM order 2 weeks in. Added HCG 250 twice a week during week 4. D/C the bold week 6.5 then donated blood. Got my midway labs which coincided with discovering the gyno flare. Ran Asin from the get-go. Estrogen at 17. Prolactin 3.1.

Only other thing different is I have been taking 50mg trazadone for sleep which has been known to very infrequently increase prolactin and cause gyno. But my prolactin did not come back high by any measure. And, no sex solo or otherwise 48 hrs prior to blood draw.

The Ralox and Asin seemed sensible enough while stopping the nandrolone. Not gonna randomly throw caber at it.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

N

Who the fuck are you? Go back to gobbling that bag o’ dicks.

Everything is what I said.
100mgTPP, 100mg NPP every other day from PPL (blend). 3700 to 4000 cals. Stopped the dbol 40mg I had from a long ago PCOM order 2 weeks in. Added HCG 250 twice a week during week 4. D/C the bold week 6.5 then donated blood. Got my midway labs which coincided with discovering the gyno flare. Ran Asin from the get-go. Estrogen at 17. Prolactin 3.1.

Only other thing different is I have been taking 50mg trazadone for sleep which has been known to very infrequently increase prolactin and cause gyno. But my prolactin did not come back high by any measure. And, no sex solo or otherwise 48 hrs prior to blood draw.

The Ralox and Asin seemed sensible enough while stopping the nandrolone. Not gonna randomly throw caber at it.

Nah, I bet you ran Nolva along Nandrolone or something stupid like that.

Or running Adex instead of asin in combination with nolva.

You went as far as contradicting yourself saying you got bloated with dbol but also said you e2 have been fully controlled through the entirely of your cycle.

First, how you get bloated if your estrogen is controlled?
Second, how you get gyno symptoms if your estrogen is controlled?

In my opinion you are a lier in need of attention hiding details to avoid being put on blast

 

[DrinkFlintWater]

Evom1 is that you?

PI22 is that you? (Serious question)

 

[Spooby]

Yes sir, get those labs

 

[EcpertRealistic]

Eman should be here anytime and will tell you "it's physiological"; not before asking you some questions that make even less sense than the problem you are describing

 

[EcpertRealistic]

E2 at 16 ng/dl
or
16 pg/dl ??


If the results were on ng/dl your E2 was ""160 pg/dl"" and not 16.

 

[fightandorflight]

View attachment 80596
E2 at 16 ng/dl
or
16 pg/dl ??


If the results were on ng/dl your E2 was ""160 pg/dl"" and not 16.

Hang on,
I will get labs uploaded.

Did not run Nolva
Did not run adex

I've only ever run adex on my first test cycle before I came to understand benefits of Asin. Its the only thing I've used for AI since.

I felt like crud on the Dbol. I was tired and did indeed "feel" bloated. As far as what it did to my estro? I don't know because I didn't test estro right after stopping it.

 

[fightandorflight]

Hang on,
I will get labs uploaded.

Did not run Nolva
Did not run adex

I've only ever run adex on my first test cycle before I came to understand benefits of Asin. Its the only thing I've used for AI since.

I felt like crud on the Dbol. I was tired and did indeed "feel" bloated. As far as what it did to my estro? I don't know because I didn't test estro right after stopping it.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

I felt like crud on the Dbol. I was tired and did indeed "feel" bloated. As far as what it did to my estro? I don't know because I didn't test estro right after stopping it.

I think it was the dbol. When the bloat went away you would notice the gyno easier. If you were running Nolva or ralox along your ai and dbol (not along nandrolone) you could have avoid it. You still on time to treat it with ralox or nolva

 

[Wunderpus]

Can't mix nolva or Nandrolone with adex or letrozole.

Why?

 

[fightandorflight]

I think it was the dbol. When the bloat went away you would notice the gyno easier. If you were running Nolva or ralox along your ai and dbol (not along nandrolone) you could have avoid it. You still on time to treat it with ralox or nolva

I'm thinking that sounds correct. its quite possible I just didn't notice it coming on at the time. I suppose it was good to d/c it sooner rather than later.

It seems the Ralox and the bumped up asin is helping as the gyno seems to have subsided about 30%. I just cut back down on the asin from 25mg qd to 12.5mg for next 2 weeks, then back down to 12.5 eod, while staying on the Ralox.
Once the flare up is (hopefully) resolved, I'm going to reintroduce the HCG and keep a close eye on things. Just really want to get this dialed in to avoid in future situations.

 

[EcpertRealistic]

I'm thinking that sounds correct. its quite possible I just didn't notice it coming on at the time. I suppose it was good to d/c it sooner rather than later.

It seems the Ralox and the bumped up asin is helping as the gyno seems to have subsided about 30%. I just cut back down on the asin from 25mg qd to 12.5mg for next 2 weeks, then back down to 12.5 eod, while staying on the Ralox.
Once the flare up is (hopefully) resolved, I'm going to reintroduce the HCG and keep a close eye on things. Just really want to get this dialed in to avoid in future situations.

The first time I heard about Dbol was on 1995. I had a friend running it by itself back then and one day I saw him at the gym and I knew something was wrong on his face. He came to me with his eyes wide open and told me he had lumps on his nipples. I was running deca by itself with no gyno... I did got biten by the decadick tho : - )

 

[master.on]

This is my 4th cycle. I'm 6 ftish, now 210 14% BF (started cycle at 195 lbs 13%). . I started off this journey 2 years ago at 175 12%. Always tended toward ecto with decent strength. I'm early 40's lifting since I was about 16. Lifts are 1rm bench 335, 2 reps for 425 squat, 1 rep for 495 deads. Nothing special but I'm happy with my progress and health has been good throughout all of this. My goal for the cycle was about 20lbs mass while keeping bf at or below 15%. Trying to get some decent strength gains and better low body development.

Last fall winter I did 500 test cyp + 300 NPP. Good cycle with minimal sides.
This bulk season I decided to do 350TPP, 350 NPP, and 750 Bold Blend per week. I also added a 40mg Dbol kicker which I dc'd 2 weeks in because I just didn't like the bloat and kinda felt like a turd. I was running Asin 12.5 EOD and never had problems with gyno or E2 previously. I quit the EQ after my BP kept creeping up and nosebleeds, headaches, etc at 6.5 weeks in. Then I donated blood. Felt better. I added HCG at week 4, 250 x 2 week cause my balls shriveled. Have kept that going until I recently noticed my first ever gyno flare:

Beginning of last week, looking in mirror and noticed white colored skin tissue extending about 1/3 inch circumference out from my nipples. Then I flexed and pressed and felt tell tale sign of gyno lump (pea sized +) under right nipple and just a bit of the white flabby looking tissue in small circumference. Not super noticeable. No leakage. But definitely not optimal. Sore to touch but not otherwise. I didn't itch before it came on. I didn't notice any pain or tingling previously. I don't stare in the mirror a lot etc, so its quite possible this started awhile ago.

I got labs done immediately (I was due for mid cycle labs anyway) and my E2 is at 16 up from 12 to start cycle. Prolactin shows low at 3.1 (I didn't get it tested pre-cycle). Test > 1500 (not capped). Can't seem to upload labs pdf directly at work. Will try later at home.

Since this discovery (1 week ago) I have been running Ralox 60mg daily and asin 25mg daily. Planning to do Ralox x 1 month to 6 weeks and bump up after 2 weeks if I don't notice improvement. Also was going to step down the Asin after 2 weeks to 12.5 ED and then eventually back down to 12.5 EOD. With my E2 what it is I'm staying away from letro, although I have some. I'm retesting every 2 weeks. I've also stopped the assumed possible offending agents of nandrolone and HCG and now just running test bumped to 600 (ran at that level previously with ZERO issues) and 75mg var to finish off cycle hopefully while getting the gyno under control.

Wondering why I got the gyno with normal to low levels of E2 and prolactin? Also, does the protocol to address sound reasonable? its not a seemingly horrible gyno issue but I don't want it to become permanent. Appreciate any and all feedback.

Be careful with Dbol
it aromatizes to a different estrogen than estradiol that won't show on blood tests.

Let's suppose a cycle with Deca/Eq/Mast injectable base that will actually reduce natural T and E
add some Dbol to it
bloodwork will show LOW estradiol, but won't show show the Dbol-derived Estro.

Thus Nolva seems to be a must, since you can't fine tune Dbol estro with any commercial bloodwork.