hst and arms ?

[Chip Bronson]

what's up bros. just finished my 2 weeks of 15's on the 2nd round of hst and, between the 10 days off and the 2 weeks of 15's, i'm feeling great. energy is up, the niggles in my forearm and shoulder are gone and i'm ready for, and looking forward to, the 10's. yeah baby!!!!

i did real well the last cycle of hst. i dropped a couple of % points of bf and added some strength. the gains are noticable particularly around the legs, calves, chest and shoulders. i noticed, however, that my arms did not respond quite as well as the rest of my body. i was hoping that the heavy chins, dips, presses, deads and rows would affect the arms but that has not really been the case. they grew about 1/2" during the first few weeks of the cycle only to decrease by a 1/4" thereafter. they grew again another 1/4" during the 2 weeks of 15's so they are now 17". but at 210lbs, that's just not too impressive...

my question is, can i do anything else, like an arm specialization program within hst to boost arm size? they get a good pump during the workouts, they get sore, they're getting stronger but they only seem to grow, and quite quickly i might add, during the higher reps. should i add sets? should i train arms in the higher, 15-rep range since this is where they respond? this is frustrating. you're help is appreciated with this. thanks.

 

[Bob Smith]

Chip, I would definitely add in some direct arm work. If you are doing 3-4 sets on all your other movements, start with 2 sets for bis/tris and that should help alleviate your problem.

For bis I alternate bar curls and DB hammer curls.
Tris I only do California Presses, but will add in a 2nd movement and alternate.

 

[Chip Bronson]

bob, sorry, maybe i wasn't clear in my original post but i'm doing 3 sets each for bi's and tri's. barbell curls and french presses. i get a good workout with a good pump but not enough growth. should i go for 4 sets each or maybe 5 sets?

 

[Bob Smith]

Most people, regardless of their arm program, have to add about 12-15 pounds of total bodyweight to add 1 inch to their arms. So most likely you just need to grow more overall and your arms will go along for the ride.

 

[Chip Bronson]

i was thinking that too as when i was 225, my arms were 18". of course, i was also a fat slob. lol... point well taken bob. thanks bro.

 

[Neodavid]

Mine went down to bro, I'm changing from 2 sets, to 3 sets for my 2nd week of 10's.

Then for 5's, I'm going to do a little something odd, because I've been reading where a lot of guys get smaller on the 5's.

Low reps is where I normally respond, but only to like 6 sets... SO, for my 5's, I'm going to do a set of 10's first, sort of an extra warmup then do 3, possibly 4 sets of 5.

HST seems to be all about constant change, adaptive growth, but I'm just not feeling worked out enough with only 2 sets, so I'm going to give em a little more volume.

I could be insane, but honestly I'm just not responding the way I want to, so I feel like I should adapt my workout to my body.

what's up bros. just finished my 2 weeks of 15's on the 2nd round of hst and, between the 10 days off and the 2 weeks of 15's, i'm feeling great. energy is up, the niggles in my forearm and shoulder are gone and i'm ready for, and looking forward to, the 10's. yeah baby!!!!

i did real well the last cycle of hst. i dropped a couple of % points of bf and added some strength. the gains are noticable particularly around the legs, calves, chest and shoulders. i noticed, however, that my arms did not respond quite as well as the rest of my body. i was hoping that the heavy chins, dips, presses, deads and rows would affect the arms but that has not really been the case. they grew about 1/2" during the first few weeks of the cycle only to decrease by a 1/4" thereafter. they grew again another 1/4" during the 2 weeks of 15's so they are now 17". but at 210lbs, that's just not too impressive...

my question is, can i do anything else, like an arm specialization program within hst to boost arm size? they get a good pump during the workouts, they get sore, they're getting stronger but they only seem to grow, and quite quickly i might add, during the higher reps. should i add sets? should i train arms in the higher, 15-rep range since this is where they respond? this is frustrating. you're help is appreciated with this. thanks.

 

[Bob Smith]

Feeling tired isnt really an indicator of whether you are making progress or not. Also, how much do you expect for results in 3-4 weeks?

Currently, I am doing HST with 3 sets for everything (Dat 4 of 5s wsa this AM). Strength is way up, size is increasing nicely. My right elbow is starting to get a little wear and tear, which seems to happen when I push low reps and approach RM.

 

[Neodavid]

Well, result wise I figure I should do better with HST than with my normal lifting, and my normal lifting gets me maybe 3/4 inch on my arms during a juice cycle, which translates to 1/8 inch every two weeks, and a continuing strength gain.

Strength is really hard to determine with HST since your weights change every workout. So size is all I can go by.

Maybe the problem was the 15's and light 10's being more like prep work for later growth, but I got concerned with some guys at HST site saying they got SMALLER while on the 5's. That's where I usually grow, but only back when I was doing 6 sets.

I'm going to do at least 3 sets from now on. I started getting into that yesterday, by doing 2.5 sets, working up to 3 by the end of the week.

All I know is in 3 weeks, no growth, while on juice, is really odd. The juice is good, same bottle i used last cycle and blew up (6 sets per body part, low rep).

But then, I also got INJURED doing that, so HST is doing very much what I asked of it, and I'm happy, just trying to make adjustments.

I'm wondering, perhaps I didn't do enough SD to begin with. My body may still be conditioned to high volume.

Feeling tired isnt really an indicator of whether you are making progress or not. Also, how much do you expect for results in 3-4 weeks?

Currently, I am doing HST with 3 sets for everything (Dat 4 of 5s wsa this AM). Strength is way up, size is increasing nicely. My right elbow is starting to get a little wear and tear, which seems to happen when I push low reps and approach RM.

 

[Bob Smith]

Its possible, as you said, that you didnt SD for long enough.

What increments are you using for each movement?

 

[Neodavid]

5 lbs arms
10 lbs chest and back
20 lbs legs

I figured the larger the muscle, the greater the increments should be.

Darn my impatience on SD!

Just too hard to not work out. I'm addicted to training maybe... which is worse than alcohol cause everyone likes you training (grin).

Its possible, as you said, that you didnt SD for long enough.

What increments are you using for each movement?

 

[Bob Smith]

List what youre actual workouts look like.

 

[Neodavid]

Legs
Leg press machine 2x

Chest
Bench 2x

Back
Pulldowns 2x
Rows 2x

Shoulders
Lateral raises 2x

Bis
Cambered curling bar 2x

Tris
Skull crushers 2x

Calves
Calf Raise 2x

Abs
2x


For bench, for instance, my 1rep max is 315, and maybe 265 for 5-6 reps, and then 225 for 10 reps.

So my bench routine for 10's, does this:

175 x2
185 x2
195 x2
205 x2
215 x2
225 x2

Another example, curls do this for 10's. Tri's happens to be the same weight. All 2 sets.
100
105
110
115
120
125

 

[Neodavid]

Bump for input

 

[Bob Smith]

If youre only doing leg press for quads, I would add in something for your hams. Chest, alternate between flat/decline and incline. I would do a pressing movement for shoulders, but other people like laterals. I also do two movements for bis and tris.

Here was my workout for today (all for 3 sets)
Squat / Leg Press
Calf press
Leg curl
BB rows / Pulldowns
Bench / Incline DB
Power shrug
Push press
Hammer curls / Bar Curls
California Press

 

[Neodavid]

Woops, yeah, I do leg curls for hams.

Two movements for arms? Don't see em below, you mean alternating maybe?

If I alternate bench, I have to change weights. I can't handle nearly as much on incline.

So if you don't see any major flaws, I guess I'll see what the 3 sets will do for me. Today is 2.7 sets, friday up to 3, then for first week of 5's, I'm thinking at least 3 sets also.

Think 4 for the first week (it's SO light for 5's) would be against HST principles? OR... hey, how about 7 reps...

that 7 rep thing might actually be an established HST principle, I remember reading about alternating reps more than the 15,10,5 scenario.

If youre only doing leg press for quads, I would add in something for your hams. Chest, alternate between flat/decline and incline. I would do a pressing movement for shoulders, but other people like laterals. I also do two movements for bis and tris.

Here was my workout for today (all for 3 sets)
Squat
Calf press
Leg curl
BB rows
Bench
Power shrug
Push press
Hammer curls
California Press

 

[Freddy]

You guys are really going to have to learn to ignore that voice in the back of your head telling you to "feel the burn".

What you will quickly learn, and what powerlifters, Olympic weightlifters, shotputters, sprinters, etc have already known...is that your body adapts to the high frequency quickly and you very rarely get sore. Its not an indicator of growth. Hell, even if protein degradation was responcible for growth, instead of loading...you still can't "feel" protein degradation in the manner that you guys seem to think you can.

Pick up a light dumbell and do 25 reps with it on any movement...you'll probably "feel" it. But if you had lab work done you'd be surprised to learn that the actual amount of degraded protein was very light.

 

[Neodavid]

Chip said he did feel a burn, I never mentioned it, So I'm not sure what you are refering too.

I don't associate a feeling with growth, but I do notice when my body is not responding.

We were talking about HST and whether adjustments were necessary. My body is not responding because the volume is much lower than I'm used to, and perhaps I did not do enough SD.

I think your assuming something else, not sure.

You guys are really going to have to learn to ignore that voice in the back of your head telling you to "feel the burn".

What you will quickly learn, and what powerlifters, Olympic weightlifters, shotputters, sprinters, etc have already known...is that your body adapts to the high frequency quickly and you very rarely get sore. Its not an indicator of growth. Hell, even if protein degradation was responcible for growth, instead of loading...you still can't "feel" protein degradation in the manner that you guys seem to think you can.

Pick up a light dumbell and do 25 reps with it on any movement...you'll probably "feel" it. But if you had lab work done you'd be surprised to learn that the actual amount of degraded protein was very light.

 

[Freddy]

Chip said he did feel a burn, I never mentioned it, So I'm not sure what you are refering too.

I don't associate a feeling with growth, but I do notice when my body is not responding.

We were talking about HST and whether adjustments were necessary. My body is not responding because the volume is much lower than I'm used to, and perhaps I did not do enough SD.

I think your assuming something else, not sure.

I was refering to where you said this;

"HST seems to be all about constant change, adaptive growth, but I'm just not feeling worked out enough with only 2 sets, so I'm going to give em a little more volume."

Where you clearly associate a feeling with growth.

The 2 sets Bryan recommends aren't written in stone. They are a base level that allows you train with high frequency that you're expected to build upon. I know a lot of people, like Bob Smith, just tack on additional sets as they progress...but you might want to talk to Bryan directly too.

 

[Bob Smith]

Neo, check my post where I listed my workout. I edited to add in the alternating movement.

 

[Neodavid]

Let me put it this way, I'm not growing, so I'm changing my workout.

My mentioning how I felt was more of a confirmation, because I mean I REALLY can feel they haven't been worked.

If you don't believe that I can feel I wasn't stimulated enough, okay, but the results are bearing it out.

I'm aware my feelings are subjective, and wouldn't have mentioned them unless they were extreme, and confirmatory in nature. The thread wasn't about my feeling things, it was about my lack of growth, and I've decided to increase sets to 3.

I was refering to where you said this;

"HST seems to be all about constant change, adaptive growth, but I'm just not feeling worked out enough with only 2 sets, so I'm going to give em a little more volume."

Where you clearly associate a feeling with growth.

The 2 sets Bryan recommends aren't written in stone. They are a base level that allows you train with high frequency that you're expected to build upon. I know a lot of people, like Bob Smith, just tack on additional sets as they progress...but you might want to talk to Bryan directly too.