I need to know about 'off' between cycles!

monstro

New Member
Hi Mesos!

In my last cycle i used Test, Deca, Eq, Hemos and Winnys.

week 1-7 - Sus (750mg)
week 1-8 - Deca (400mg)
week 1-7 - Eq (250mg)
week 1-4 - Hemos (150mg ED)
week 7-12 - Winnys (100mg ED)

Now i wondering how much time do i stay 'off' cycle???
I'm taking Clomid and HCG, and maybe will start a Proviron dosage like 50mg ED.

Thanks for your advice Mesos!!!
 
monstro said:
Hi Mesos!

In my last cycle i used Test, Deca, Eq, Hemos and Winnys.

week 1-7 - Sus (750mg)
week 1-8 - Deca (400mg)
week 1-7 - Eq (250mg)
week 1-4 - Hemos (150mg ED)
week 7-12 - Winnys (100mg ED)

Now i wondering how much time do i stay 'off' cycle???
I'm taking Clomid and HCG, and maybe will start a Proviron dosage like 50mg ED.

Thanks for your advice Mesos!!!

A good guy at the gym I work out at who has been an aas "coach" to me more or less says equal time on for equal time off. INCLUDING recovery drugs. Works for him- hes a freaking giant- and not in the bad bloated way. A good 6'0" 260- lean as hell.
 
the safest way is, as stated above, time on equals time off. you ran winny till week 12. so stay off for 12 weeks.

have a nice day
 
Thanks Bros!

Ohhh... here's my 'recover cycle':

week 1/4 - 150mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG
week 4/8 - 100mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG
week 8/12 - 50mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG

What you think about add some Proviron? By the way, i'm week 4.

Cya!
 
thats alot of recovery brutha lol. that much clomid for that long would make me cry watching tampon commericals! for that cycle bro recovery shouldnt take longer then 4 or 5 weeks but you should stay off cycle for at least equal time you were on. you dont have to take clomid for the entire time off just 3 to 5 weeks max. wait a week after your last inject then run 100mg/ed the first week then drop to 50mg/ed for the remainder.

cake...
 
joe5572 said:
A good guy at the gym I work out at who has been an aas "coach" to me more or less says equal time on for equal time off. INCLUDING recovery drugs. Works for him- hes a freaking giant- and not in the bad bloated way. A good 6'0" 260- lean as hell.

You might want to ask him what he considers as "off". The answer with either surprise you or he will again be pulling your leg.
 
bigjdog said:
yea bro, that is a lil too much recovery.

Go with cakeman's way.

Amen to that and don't watch a chick flick with a gal unless you want her to see you tear up and I'm not joking. I was knee deep in PCT and watched I am Sam with my girl and cryed more than she did.
 
Grizzly said:
You might want to ask him what he considers as "off". The answer with either surprise you or he will again be pulling your leg.


Im sure hes bridging and doesnt consider that "on" time- but I never really asked, just assumed. Im sure his guidelines were for a not as heavy user as he is. Its kinda eye popping to watch him lift. Just a beast.
 
monstro said:
Thanks Bros!

Ohhh... here's my 'recover cycle':

week 1/4 - 150mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG
week 4/8 - 100mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG
week 8/12 - 50mg Clomid ev day + 2000UI HCG

What you think about add some Proviron? By the way, i'm week 4.

Cya!

if youve been taking 150mg clomid ED with HCG for four weeks, i think you are about done,,,also people have been avoiding HCG, as it does more damage, in terms of messing with your HPT axis, 150mg of clomid for 2 weeks could have done it.
 
yes, off can definetley be interpreted differently for individuals. For me that is when i stop using everything except a gram of test a week for "maintenance". LOL
 
I havent heard anything negative about HCG please elaborate...


Secondlly 2000iu ED seems excessive to me, the stadard daily dose is 500-1000iu ed or like maybe 1000-1500iu eod.


I
morepain said:
yes, off can definetley be interpreted differently for individuals. For me that is when i stop using everything except a gram of test a week for "maintenance". LOL
 
I don't know how much credence you put in him, but Cy Wilson has said in numerous t-mag articles that HCG will suppress more than help.
 
Well I guess I am wondering just what they mean by suppress. I do know that you will be suppressed while on it but the whole point was that it restored your testes to working condition after a cycle and that the suppression did not last after discontination of HCG.. Have I missed something, recent development or ssomething ?

Grizzly said:
I don't know how much credence you put in him, but Cy Wilson has said in numerous t-mag articles that HCG will suppress more than help.
 
HCG resembles LH, and it is an exogenous hormone you are putting in, which is unnatural.

but before LH, there is Gonadotroping releasing hormone (GnRH), that tells other organs to produce LH, FSH, other shit and finally test and so on, enzymatic pathways and negative feedback mechanism is involved obviously.


so if you introduce HCG, your body will not make GnRH, cuz it notices taht you already have high LH like substance. best is to use HCG with clomid/nolva,,,then drop hcg, while taking nolva/clomid for one or two more weeks by themselves. and when you are off, you are OFF. if you want everything to go back to normal.

but sometimes people never get their natural T back, ive seen some posts where a guy did everything right after the cycle, and his T level was still low for many months....scary shit....never happens to me though.
 
Best way is to go to the doc. Theyll run some test and tell ya upfront if its low or not. But the stay off and long as you been on advice is just a safety measure. Some people can recovery quickly and others not.
 
The downside is that HCG too is suppressive of natural testosterone. Because it takes the place of LH. LH is not the first step in the chain of command, instead its manufactured in the pituitary under the response of Gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) which is secreted from the hypothalamus. And since an LH mimicking agent is supplied exogenously, the negative feedback signal to the hypothalamus will still tell it to stop making GnRH, and so no natural LH is produced. This is why the product is always used in conjunction with a potent estrogen receptor antagonist like clomid or Nolvadex. When the androgen level in the body has dropped, these antagonists will lower estrogenic response creating a steroid deficit that signals the Hypothalamus to start making GnRH. When it does, after HCG therapy, testicle size is up again and shortly thereafter natural testosterone manufacture should return to normal. But therefore its crucial that users note that though HCG is essential after long cycles, it shouldn't be used without clomid or Nolvadex AND HCG should be discontinued at least two weeks before coming off Clomid or Nolvadex or else it will suppress natural testosterone itself.

Also important to take into account : using HCG for too long a period of time or in doses that are excessively high, can desensitize the testicles to the effect of LH and would put your right back where you started from. Basically that would mean you spent money to no avail. In terms of side-effects one should expect some androgenic signs such as acne and there is a risk for hair loss or prostate hypertrophy, but in most cases this compound will be used for 3-4 weeks, so these should not manifest themselves to any serious degree. There will also be some estrogen build-up, but since the user HAS to be on clomid or Nolvadex, this should not become apparent either. Next to this, HCG being a fertility drug, one should be aware that increased blood pressure and blood clotting can occur.

You would normally opt to use HCG after you've done a long cycle, usually 8 weeks or more. Note that almost all proper cycles are 8 weeks or more in length, its just that some beginners have a phobia of needles and opt to waste their time with an all oral stack first, in which case the cycle wouldn't be longer than 6-7 weeks. In these cases too HCG can have a use, but most of the time testicular atrophy will not have progressed to such a stage that it is an absolute necessity. In any case, you should run it about 3 weeks, totaling about 4 shots. One every 5-6 days. Start off with one shot of 3000 IU somewhere in the last week of your stack, then another 3000 5 days later, then drop to 1500 5 days later and a last shot of 1500 6 days after that. Sometime after the second or third shot, therapy with Nolvadex or clomid should be commenced and continued for 4-5 weeks. How to do this.

HCG IS and always will be an important part of post-cycle recovery, but it should never be run too long or at too high a dose and should always be accompanied by the use of either Clomid or Nolvadex. The use of Clomid or Nolvadex should also be continued at least 2 weeks after HCG is discontinued to avoid the HCG causing problems.

cake...
 
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