incline shoulder dumbell presses

[unt0ld]

Hey guys

You think I should do power cleans instead of incline shoulder dumbell presses?


And also when Im doing the incline shoulder dumbell presses I am up to 75lb dumbells on 5x5. Somedays I used 80's


But by my 5th set I start to arch my back. How bad is this?

I should try to keep my back as straight as possible...

But that means I have to lower the weight alot. And I feel like its too light.

What should I do. I know form is very important but I feel like the weight is way too light. and Im not straining myself enough.

thanks.

 

[getswoll]

power cleans are a compound movement and not a substitute for shoulder press. I'm a fan of doing standing shoulder presses; they tend to keep the chest out of the movement, unlike the seated. The main objective however, should be discipline in your form. If you are cheating, get a spotter or lower the weight.


GS

 

[unt0ld]

yeah I work out on my own.

So it looks like I need to lower the weight.

 

[Grizzly]

"I appreciate all the responses thank you guys.

Yeah I think you guys are right I need to follow it way better then I am.

Ill tell you how it goes."

Did you post this before or after you made this thread? LOL Bro, if you really mean to follow the 5X5, then you do neither of those exercises. Although, you could probably substitute cleans for deads, but I would think deads would be better to begin with.

 

[johnsmith182]

one comment... you said "I use 75's, sometimes 80's" for this exercise. I dont understand this.

you say you are using the "5 by 5" method. this is a method based on slow and gradual but weekly changes in the weight used. really, this is the most important part of the program.

if your jumping around in weight, doing 80's one week, and 75's another week, you are NOT doing the 5 by 5.

 

[Grizzly]

if your jumping around in weight, doing 80's one week, and 75's another week, you are NOT doing the 5 by 5.

HAHA! Right from the horse's mouth. I told you so. Nahnahnahbooboo!

 

[unt0ld]

true true thx for the advice.

 

[johnsmith182]

if you wanted to utilize the 5 by 5 methodology, and you had set up your upper body pressing exercises with the incline DB press involved... lets say something like bench presses on monday, military presses on wednesday, and incline DB on friday... and further presume that you had done 75lb DB's for 5 sets of 5 sometime in the past, or something similar so that you thought that you were starting with a max for that workout of around 75lbs... then you might set up your weights something like this.

week one
65lbs

week 2
70lbs

week 3
75lbs

week 4
77lbs

week 5
80lbs

etc, etc, etc.

dumbells are hard to accomodate to the 5 by 5 sometimes, because they typically go up by incrememts of 5lbs, and that makes 10lbs with both hands, and thats just a huge jump. if your going to use db's, best to get some of the little 1lb magnets or something that let you take small jumps.

the 5 by 5 is really all about being very systematic about your training. knowing what you are going to do before you get into the gym... taking all the emotion and personal feeling out of your choices. you are supposed to do a certain weight and a certain number of sets and reps and you do them. it is planned to stress your body enough to grow and no more. you do the prescribed work whether you feel shitty or feel great. you DO NOT just go into the gym and "work hard"... you go into the gym and do the correct thing that has been planned before hand to stress your body enough so that you will be a little stronger the next time you do that exercise, no more and no less. you stay on a particular cycle until you can no longer improve within the confines of that cycle, and then you start a new training cycle.

"5 by 5" is all over the internet now. much of it in bastardized form.

the current 5 by 5 craze was started by ME here on this very website about 5 or 6 years ago, maybe a bit longer. its a basic program that has been around since the 50's, has been modified and changed and perfected by various people including my good friends bill starr and tommy suggs and mark rippetoe, the more advanced versions of it were developed by ME in response to research into hormonal fluctuations associated with training done by myself and dr.michael hartman and dr. lon kilgore on various high level athletes.

this program works if you do it right. its not a set in stone "program" of sets and reps to be followed as is forever. it is a sets and reps starting point, and a way of modifying your training over time, years in fact, to keep you progressing as quickly as you are able. it is not a set of exercises. it is not a certain set and rep scheme, name notwithstanding. it is a system of training that works. it is a "model" to be followed. it is a way of thinking.

i love the popularity of the program, i hate the fact that so many claim they are doing the program, think they are doing the program, and yet are missing the parts of it that actually make it effective.

 

[Girth]

It's also one of the shortest/easiest to follow programs, yet so many change it? Many other "programs" are numerous pages in length and people can follow them. The use of the 5x5, as written, is either ironic or disheartening. Depending on if you subscribe to theory X or Y of human behavoir of course.

 

[Grizzly]

i love the popularity of the program, i hate the fact that so many claim they are doing the program, think they are doing the program, and yet are missing the parts of it that actually make it effective.

Would you say that the squats are the cornerstone of the program and should never be toyed with?

Obviously, one can change exercises. The basic foundation of a day is squat, push, pull. Certainly, if one were to follow the same archetype(not really the correct word, but I think you get my meaning) but used different pushing and pulling work, the program would remain intact, no?

For instance, if after a few cycles of the 5X5, one were to notice a weakness in the hamstrings, certainly he could exchange rows with RDL's or Goodmornings and still not have ruined the program, right?

 

[johnsmith182]

I would say that squats are the cornerstone of the program, just because they are a whole body exercise that stimulates overall growth. and squats are just so damn effective! you could do the program substituting another leg exercise... however i dont think it would be as effective. ive seen people sub front squats, or even deadlifts, and program them just like the squats. i just dont think that any program that doesnt have backsquats in it is going to work as well for gaining muscle.

the progam is based off of using a few "big" exercises, so that you are doing around 75-100 reps a day of exercises that use as much of the whole body as possible. I know the exercises i think are the most effective. i prefere barbell rows and chins to seated rows and pulldowns, for various reasons. i think they work better. i think that a person will get better results with these exercises than any others... or at least from using these exercises the majority of the time. however if one wanted to do seated rows, it wouldnt invalidate the program. its just not quite as good, IMO.

exercises SHOULD be changed over time depending on the indiviual persons strength and weaknesses and individual goals. ive many times posted in various places a set of exercises for this program, this is a starting point. there are a lot of reasons i recomend one start with this set of exercises. ive had a fair amount of experience with this type of program, i believe strongly this is how it should be started. but, it will change over time. i would NOT expect a person who has been following the program for a year to still be doing bench, row, squat, or deadlift, press, and chin.

the cornerstone of the program, more important than the exercises, is the progression, both of the weight and the rep scheme, and how the exercises change over time.

in general, there is not enough thinking going on when people train. the thing about progression in exercises, sets, and reps, is to THINK! you never progress forever doing one certain thing. periodically, things have to be changed. where most people go wrong, is to look at a stop in progress as a signal that everything they have been doing has to be scrapped, when actually they should not do this. if they have in mind the general framework of how training works, the systematic loading and unloading of the body, they can make smaller but more intelligent adjustments to keep that process going at a fairly even pace. changing to a completely new program every 3 or 4 months just leaves everythign up to chance. typically, you gain, but not steadily. you make progress basically by chance and dumb luck.

Would you say that the squats are the cornerstone of the program and should never be toyed with?

Obviously, one can change exercises. The basic foundation of a day is squat, push, pull. Certainly, if one were to follow the same archetype(not really the correct word, but I think you get my meaning) but used different pushing and pulling work, the program would remain intact, no?

For instance, if after a few cycles of the 5X5, one were to notice a weakness in the hamstrings, certainly he could exchange rows with RDL's or Goodmornings and still not have ruined the program, right?