Interesting bloodwork results on TRT+

[MYP9864]

45 y/o male on TRT for the last 15 years. 6.2” 170 lbs, training 6 days a week with 5 days of 30 minute fasted cardio. I have been on test C 100mg per week split into two shots M/T. All bloodwork has been good.
Decided to add NPP 100mg per week, split into three injections and increase test C to 120mg per week. Made great progress in the gym, got leaner and added 8 lbs of lean muscle tissue in one month.

Bloodwork after one month: Testosterone total went down from 923 to 906. Free Test went from 17.0 pg/ml to 55.85 pg/ml. SHBG went down from 27.6 nmol/L to 16.9 nmol/L. Estradiol went up from 30.2 pg/ml to 53.2 pg/ml. Prolactin went up from 12.3 ng/ml to 17.0 ng/ml. Cortisol went up from 7.9 ug/dl to 14.7 ug/dl.

Should I be concerned with these results? How can I rectify low SHBG, higher prolactin and increased e2? I don’t want to use AI, never have. I already take P5P daily.

Side effects: worse sleep, some fatigue and low libido.

I plan on increasing Test C to 150mg, keeping NPP at 100mg and adding Primo at 50mg per week to slightly lower e2 and hopefully to make me feel better.
I intend to do bloodwork after 1 month and adjust Test and Primo if needed. The plan is to take these compounds for three months, twice a year.


Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

[ksm2]

I don’t want to use AI, never have.

Why not? What is so bad about AIs?
50 mg Primo will do absolutely nothing btw

 

[Vajfan]

Have you considered daily injections or “microdosing” to potentially alleviate symptoms? If you are looking to avoid adding in another variable like an AI then daily injections is an option to consider as the next logical approach.

 

[crtx]

you added more gear got gains what did you expect? same results...

 

[MYP9864]

Why not? What is so bad about AIs?
50 mg Primo will do absolutely nothing btw

AI's can potentially have a plethora of side effects, ranging from mild to serious, especially when used long term. Even my endocrinologist doesn't recommend AI's unless absolutely necessary. Aromasin tablet for example
contains over 20 different inactive ingredients that can be detrimental to your health, some of them are known allergens.

https://rss.medsinfo.com.au/pf/cmi.cfm?product=pfcaromt

I am very sensitive to all meds and respond well to low dosages of gear. 50mg of Primo can absolutely have a positive effect in me. My goal is to use Primo to bring down my e2 from 53.2 pg/ml to about 30 pg/ml and to possibly improve my libido and mood. I am not looking to make gains from Primo. I have others tell me that 100mg of NPP was too low of a dose and that I would not make any gains on it, yet it was very effective for me and significantly changed my physique for the better.

 

[explodingHeart]

AI's can potentially have a plethora of side effects, ranging from mild to serious, especially when used long term. Even my endocrinologist doesn't recommend AI's

Retarded trending dogma that has infested the internet the past few years.

How can I rectify low SHBG,

Explain to us why this matters.

 

[MYP9864]

I want to start with 50mg Primo in order to asses my labs. There is no reason to start high not knowing how it will affect you. If 50mg Primo brings my e2 to normal range and makes me feel better, mission accomplished. If not, I will increase to 100mg Primo and recheck bloodwork again.

 

[MYP9864]

Have you considered daily injections or “microdosing” to potentially alleviate symptoms? If you are looking to avoid adding in another variable like an AI then daily injections is an option to consider as the next logical approach.

Thank you for your suggestion. I will be micro-dosing daily going forward to see if it helps.

 

[MYP9864]

you added more gear got gains what did you expect? same results...

I had no expectations going into it, except that I was hopeful that NPP would help me with joint pain. This was my first time trying it and yes it was helpful with joint pain.

 

[EnhancedChimpTBK]

I had no expectations going into it, except that I was hopeful that NPP would help me with joint pain. This was my first time trying it and yes it was helpful with joint pain.

Careful with NPP for joint pain. It usually just masks the symptoms instead of addressing the actual cause. If you’ve got tendon or mild joint issues, you might want to look into BPC 157, TB 500... Or even just a deload, physiotherapy, and a training program that fits your injuries and allow for you to recover better.

Thanks for sharing your blood test results. That's helpful and informative for everyone interested in these compounds.

 

[dfense2022]

I had no expectations going into it, except that I was hopeful that NPP would help me with joint pain. This was my first time trying it and yes it was helpful with joint pain.

how about reducing NPP to 50mg while adding Primo? But of course if you are hyper responder Primo could dry your joints out. I notice that a bit with 100mg Primo / week.

 

[MingDao]

What's there to be concerned with? Blood seems totally fine. You are making great progress and you expect less fatigue?! Libido most likely is fatigue related. Worse sleep on cycle is a given.

 

[MYP9864]

Everyone, thanks for your suggestions. Cycle lasted 3 months and ended on a positive note. Primo solved most issues I was having. I first introduced Primo at 50mg weekly, split into ED injections and ended the cycle running 200mg test C, 100mg NPP and 100mg Primo and did bloodwork. All blood markers improved to normal levels, including Prolactin, Cortisol and e2 came down to 31. I regained my libido and felt great. Put on 15lbs of muscle and I actually got leaner. I will definitely be using Primo going forward on all of my TRT+ cycles.

On a side note, I will not be using NPP or any Nandrolones going forward. NPP raised both Prolactin and Cortisol significantly, even at a low dose of 100mg weekly. Gyno got worse on NPP and it only subsided after adding Primo. Too many side effects from NPP for my liking. Not worth it for me.

 

[Deezznutzz]

Everyone, thanks for your suggestions. Cycle lasted 3 months and ended on a positive note. Primo solved most issues I was having. I first introduced Primo at 50mg weekly, split into ED injections and ended the cycle running 200mg test C, 100mg NPP and 100mg Primo and did bloodwork. All blood markers improved to normal levels, including Prolactin, Cortisol and e2 came down to 31. I regained my libido and felt great. Put on 15lbs of muscle and I actually got leaner. I will definitely be using Primo going forward on all of my TRT+ cycles.

On a side note, I will not be using NPP or any Nandrolones going forward. NPP raised both Prolactin and Cortisol significantly, even at a low dose of 100mg weekly. Gyno got worse on NPP and it only subsided after adding Primo. Too many side effects from NPP for my liking. Not worth it for me.

T

45 y/o male on TRT for the last 15 years. 6.2” 170 lbs, training 6 days a week with 5 days of 30 minute fasted cardio. I have been on test C 100mg per week split into two shots M/T. All bloodwork has been good.
Decided to add NPP 100mg per week, split into three injections and increase test C to 120mg per week. Made great progress in the gym, got leaner and added 8 lbs of lean muscle tissue in one month.

Bloodwork after one month: Testosterone total went down from 923 to 906. Free Test went from 17.0 pg/ml to 55.85 pg/ml. SHBG went down from 27.6 nmol/L to 16.9 nmol/L. Estradiol went up from 30.2 pg/ml to 53.2 pg/ml. Prolactin went up from 12.3 ng/ml to 17.0 ng/ml. Cortisol went up from 7.9 ug/dl to 14.7 ug/dl.

Should I be concerned with these results? How can I rectify low SHBG, higher prolactin and increased e2? I don’t want to use AI, never have. I already take P5P daily.

Side effects: worse sleep, some fatigue and low libido.

I plan on increasing Test C to 150mg, keeping NPP at 100mg and adding Primo at 50mg per week to slightly lower e2 and hopefully to make me feel better.
I intend to do bloodwork after 1 month and adjust Test and Primo if needed. The plan is to take these compounds for three months, twice a year.


Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

This is why an ai is usually run with Npp. Keeps e2 in range. Prolactin low and no gyno for most. No decca dick. I'm running 500 npp and 1000 test with no issues. Arimidex is doing its job. No prolactin sides...deca dick or gyno.

 

[MYP9864]

T
This is why an ai is usually run with Npp. Keeps e2 in range. Prolactin low and no gyno for most. No decca dick. I'm running 500 npp and 1000 test with no issues. Arimidex is doing its job. No prolactin sides...deca dick or gyno.

Thanks for your reply. I am glad you're doing so well on those compounds and doses with no issues. NPP didn't make me feel great mentally either, so I doubt I will ever try it again.

 

[monsterolympia]

In two years time after several tries and blood tests you will understand that AI are not evil, and DHT derivatives are not necessarily better. Keep testing option, keep assessing is my only advice.

 

[UncleBuns]

SHBG tends to go lower with higher AAS load. It varies by person, but some compounds will lower SHBG more than others. Orals tend to drop it the most. As an example, on top of TRT I can run up to 150 mg of Mast and my SHBG stays the same. If I run even 70mg primo my SHBG drops by half or more. On the same dose of test I noticed that when my SHBG goes lower. My total test goes down and my free test goes up significantly. I believe this is due to free test being cleared from the body more rapidly so there's less being held SHBG. Test bound with SHBG sticks around for longer creating higher overall levels.

More free testosterone means there's more available to be aromatized into estrogen. If you have side effects from high estrogen us an AI.

NPP/Deca are known for raising prolactin and they convert to estrogen. You can take prolactin reducing medications but they have a pretty bad side effect profile. If you don't have any side effects from higher estrogen and prolactin then I wouldn't worry about it. If it's a problem I would just drop the compound and choose another one.

 

[Grey Spartan]

I believe this is due to free test being cleared from the body more rapidly so there's less being held SHBG. Test bound with SHBG sticks around for longer creating higher overall levels.

More free testosterone means there's more available to be aromatized into estrogen. If you have side effects from high estrogen us an AI.

I thought the more free Test the more the body has to use? I thought that was the concept behind using Proviron. You take Proviron, it lowers you SHBG, you now have more free Test (from the Test you injected) for the body to use.

I'm still trying to learn as much as possible so could have this backward or misunderstood completely.

 

[MYP9864]

SHBG tends to go lower with higher AAS load. It varies by person, but some compounds will lower SHBG more than others. Orals tend to drop it the most. As an example, on top of TRT I can run up to 150 mg of Mast and my SHBG stays the same. If I run even 70mg primo my SHBG drops by half or more. On the same dose of test I noticed that when my SHBG goes lower. My total test goes down and my free test goes up significantly. I believe this is due to free test being cleared from the body more rapidly so there's less being held SHBG. Test bound with SHBG sticks around for longer creating higher overall levels.

More free testosterone means there's more available to be aromatized into estrogen. If you have side effects from high estrogen us an AI.

NPP/Deca are known for raising prolactin and they convert to estrogen. You can take prolactin reducing medications but they have a pretty bad side effect profile. If you don't have any side effects from higher estrogen and prolactin then I wouldn't worry about it. If it's a problem I would just drop the compound and choose another one.

Thank you for your comments and your pretty thorough explanation of how SHBG works and affects other variables. Nandrolone's side effects are an issue for me, thus I do not plan on using them again. I have struggled with unilateral gyno since puberty and just had it removed by surgery, so I will not be experimenting with gear that can easily cause gyno. Going forward I will most likely stick with test and low doses of primo and masteron, with addition of hgh.

 

[MYP9864]

In two years time after several tries and blood tests you will understand that AI are not evil, and DHT derivatives are not necessarily better. Keep testing option, keep assessing is my only advice.

Thanks for replying. I get bloodwork done 6-7 time per year as I like to know how my body reacts to changes in my dosing protocols. I was able to figure out a proper Primo dose to control my e2 properly, relative to my test dosages without the need for AI. Primo also hardens me up, keeping my muscles looking full, despite a low dose, something AI won't do and it makes me feel great while keeping my libido highly functional.
I agree with you, that assessing and making changes when necessary is of the utmost importance.