Iran?

[Dionysus]

Ooop, will ya look at that we got off topic.

There I go again.

Damn.

 

[Kayz]

Spoken like a true sell out

LOL. I do not owe the American "worker" anything. Teh Japanese PM was right....many Americans are lazy.

 

[Kayz]

I think you might be getting a bit dramatic. If you follow a typical Japanese business plan and pay your employees well, give them good benni's and treat them with equal respect, you'll never have a problem finding good Americans to work for you.

It boils down to proper ethics and the belief that the CEO ultimately is no more important than the worker.

The theory goes like so: The white collar worker relys on the blue collar worker to bulid the bridges, roads, farms, buildings, repair his car, furnace, work in his factories, etc.
The Blue collar worker in turn relys on the white collar worker for jobs, medical services, opportunities and so on.

Neither could exist without the other, thus both are equally important.

Now, while the High achievers should be duely compensated, it should not be at the expense of workers benni's and wages. When it does, it upsets the balance of life.

This I believe is something that our government has forgotten, or has chosen to ignore.

I believe in most cases it is plain ol' greed that leads companys to hire illegals...

And greed is wrong no matter how you try to justify it.

I agree with all of this. I don't know where I was trying to justify greed though.

 

[oldtimer]

In my opinion, Beefy was probably the one who had the best posts in this thread.

For the record, I'm not an American nor do I live there, but his posts are spot on. No sane leader is going to do what is best for other countries on the expense of his own.

Having said the above, I don't see why supporting the Israeli government is in the interest of the US.

 

[Grizzly]

That would be a good start

I guess the whole Land of the Free thing doesn't mean much to you. I guess you would prefer to see capitalism replaced by socialism...since we've seen how well that works.

 

[Grizzly]

...oh, and how does that makes me a capitalist? A nationalist perhaps?

It doesn't and that was my sarcastic point. It makes you a socialist or, perhaps, a fascist as a major facet of fascism is gov't control of industry.

 

[Grizzly]

And if y'all want to stop outsourcing, then stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop insisting that everything you buy come in huge amounts for mere pennies. Stop insisting that all of America make 20+/hr but goods should still cost the same.

Know why companies go overseas? YOU! You want $2.50 t-shirts. The only way to make those is to pay Malaysian toddlers in bowls of rice. And then what do you do? You fucking complain that the shirt is a piece of shit that falls apart. No shit! You want good quality stuff, then you're going to have to pay for it.

And how is it any more an issue of greed for a business owner to want to make more money than it is for you to want to save more money(so that you will have more money in your pocket, just like the business owner)?

 

[Dionysus]

And if y'all want to stop outsourcing, then stop shopping at Wal-Mart. Stop insisting that everything you buy come in huge amounts for mere pennies. Stop insisting that all of America make 20+/hr but goods should still cost the same.

Know why companies go overseas? YOU! You want $2.50 t-shirts. The only way to make those is to pay Malaysian toddlers in bowls of rice. And then what do you do? You fucking complain that the shirt is a piece of shit that falls apart. No shit! You want good quality stuff, then you're going to have to pay for it.

And how is it any more an issue of greed for a business owner to want to make more money than it is for you to want to save more money(so that you will have more money in your pocket, just like the business owner)?

I agree with this point. I dont mind at all paying fairly for the things I buy.

As far as your statement on greed goes, hey buddy knock yerself out!
Hey, maybe you also hope that CEO's will chop everyones salary down to $2
an hour, so they can get 100 million dollar bonus's, screw the workers medical benifits, those greedy bastards need to buy an Island. Where does it stop? When it effects you? Who will be left to stand up for your rights?

 

[Dionysus]

It doesn't and that was my sarcastic point. It makes you a socialist or, perhaps, a fascist as a major facet of fascism is gov't control of industry.

...and you think the Govnmnt doesnt control Industry now? BWaaahaahahaaa!!!

 

[Dionysus]

I agree with all of this. I don't know where I was trying to justify greed though.

Well, I am glad we found common ground.

I simply opine that if a company were to seek out illegal immigrants soley for the purpose of exploiting them for cheap labor, then that is greed.

If, however, a company had no other applicants to choose from other than illegals, I would hope the company would:

1) Attempt to sponser qualified Immigrants in becoming legal citizens, as a term of employment.

2) Research why they are not attracting a more diverse group, and act on that information.

 

[Dionysus]

Having said the above, I don't see why supporting the Israeli government is in the interest of the US.

I'm sorry, can you clarify this question/statement for me?

Are you saying the US does or does not support the Israeli govt?
Or should/shouldnt?

 

[Grizzly]

I agree with this point. I dont mind at all paying fairly for the things I buy.

As far as your statement on greed goes, hey buddy knock yerself out!
Hey, maybe you also hope that CEO's will chop everyones salary down to $2
an hour, so they can get 100 million dollar bonus's, screw the workers medical benifits, those greedy bastards need to buy an Island. Where does it stop? When it effects you? Who will be left to stand up for your rights?

Bro, there's not too many jobs that pay less that I make right now, so it's not like I'm speaking from the perspective of an 80k/yr sales manager or anything.

Wages will never drop that far. Why? Because if the people have no money then there's no one to buy shit from the companies which means they're not making any money, thus they'll start paying more.

Henry Ford paid his employees much more than anyone else in his time. NOT because he "cared so deeply about them", but because it insured him of making more money because his employees then bought cars from him.

 

[ForemanRules]

LOL. I do not owe the American "worker" anything. Teh Japanese PM was right....many Americans are lazy.

Many people in all countries are lazy

 

[ForemanRules]

I guess the whole Land of the Free thing doesn't mean much to you. I guess you would prefer to see capitalism replaced by socialism...since we've seen how well that works.

How is " land of the Free" supported by your belief we should out source jobs to other countries with no environmental laws, no child labor laws....ect Is that freedom in your book???

 

[oldtimer]

I'm sorry, can you clarify this question/statement for me?

Are you saying the US does or does not support the Israeli govt?
Or should/shouldnt?

The US does support, while it should not.

 

[Grizzly]

Foremand and Dionysus-

I think you both need to re-evaluate your motivations and, also, your devotion to your "causes". Foreman, as a cop, you make ~65,000/yr, which is 22,000/yr more than the average American and close to 40,000/yr more than I make. I think you're rich.

I think, at the least, that you need to donate 22,000/yr of your money to anyone who doesn't make 43k/yr because you shouldn't be making more than anybody else and I shouldn't be making less than anyone else.

You "need" it, you say? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that 4 bedroom houses, boats, motorcycles, cars, more than 2 pairs of pants, enough food to fuel bodybuilding endeavors, televisions, radios and any other number of things are necessities of life. Somehow Malaysians, Guatemalans, Africans, Belizians, Belarusians, Polishes, Arabs and any other number of people manage to survive without them.

Oh, I'm sorry, you meant that all of those are alright to own. It's only when one decides to buy an island that it is too extravagant. What about half an island? Is that OK? I mean, a whole island is too much, so half and island is just right, I'd guess.

And who shall we default to to decide what is enough and what is too much? Fuck, I think you make too much. You make triple what I do. Bourgieous motherfucker!

You two simply want to take from those who have more. You want to take from them and give to yourself.

 

[Beefy]

It's so cute when children try to hold their end of an adult conversation. Well, it's cute for a while. Then it starts to get annoying.

I own a construction company with 20+ employees. I've bent over backwards to try to hire and keep Americans, but they're just too damned lazy. They expect to own 50% of the company before they should have to actually show up to work 4 days in a row. I pay illigeal immigrants the same fair wages that the Americans have been offered. The hispanics love their jobs, and they tell me I am the best boss they've ever had.

Can any of you explain the reason for the difference in attitudes?

While you're explaining, tell me this...You want the goverment to stop infringing on our rights and be less powerful, and at the same time they should start telling free business enterprises that they aren't allowed outside the country.

You bitch so much about the domestic injustices of America, and in the same breath try to sell foreign aid for shit hole providences and deserts half way around the world. No comprendo.

 

[Grizzly]

You bitch so much about the domestic injustices of America, and in the same breath try to sell foreign aid for shit hole providences and deserts half way around the world. No comprendo.

Tell you what, regarding the whole food post, I know I sure as fuck don't give a good goddamn if people are starving. In fact, I can think of 30 people off the top of my head that I wish were starving to death. I don't like people. I'd rather most of them were dead. So, no, I don't give a shit about them.

But, most importantly, they DESERVE it. OH! Cruel, heartless bastard that I am. How can that be? I don't know, you tell me why someone too stupid to move out of the desert doesn't deserve to starve.

More to the point, read "I, Rigoberta Menchu". It's about a Guatemalan Indian and her life. At one point in the book, she straight says, "we don't have enough to eat. We know most of our children will die before they're even 7 years old, but it is our culture to have as many children as we can."

If that ain't the kind of stupidity that needs to be starved out of the world, I don't know what is.

 

[ForemanRules]

Foremand and Dionysus-

I think you both need to re-evaluate your motivations and, also, your devotion to your "causes". Foreman, as a cop, you make ~65,000/yr, which is 22,000/yr more than the average American and close to 40,000/yr more than I make. I think you're rich.

I think, at the least, that you need to donate 22,000/yr of your money to anyone who doesn't make 43k/yr because you shouldn't be making more than anybody else and I shouldn't be making less than anyone else.

You "need" it, you say? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize that 4 bedroom houses, boats, motorcycles, cars, more than 2 pairs of pants, enough food to fuel bodybuilding endeavors, televisions, radios and any other number of things are necessities of life. Somehow Malaysians, Guatemalans, Africans, Belizians, Belarusians, Polishes, Arabs and any other number of people manage to survive without them.

Oh, I'm sorry, you meant that all of those are alright to own. It's only when one decides to buy an island that it is too extravagant. What about half an island? Is that OK? I mean, a whole island is too much, so half and island is just right, I'd guess.

And who shall we default to to decide what is enough and what is too much? Fuck, I think you make too much. You make triple what I do. Bourgieous motherfucker!

You two simply want to take from those who have more. You want to take from them and give to yourself.

I wish I made that much.......more like 50,000....I have 1 TV ( 25 inch just the old regular kind) one comupter...I just bought it.......the one I was using last week was from 1998......so 1 new computer in 8 years..one car..I do have more than 2 pairs of pants......no games and no toys ( ie. boats or motorcycles..).

I am very happy with my pay...and I deserve it, I think the most under paid and exployted workers in America are our soilders......they shoiuld be paid 3x as much and have "good" free medical for the rest of their lives.

It's too bad that scum bags get paid 150,000+ for being corrupt and breaking the laws every day.....and the hard working people like teachers, cops, fire men, nurses, low level managers and their employs....ect get paid shit.....

 

[ForemanRules]

You want to see the salries of over paid lazy corrupt scum????









































Congress: Rank-and-File Members' Salary
The current salary for rank-and-file members of the House and Senate is $158,100 per year.
•[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Members are free to turn down pay increase and some choose to do so.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]• In a complex system of calculations, administered by the Office of Personnel Management, congressional pay rates also affect the salaries for federal judges and other senior government officials.
•[/FONT][FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica] [/FONT][FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]During the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin considered proposing that elected government officials not be paid for their service. Other Founding Fathers, however, decided otherwise.[/FONT]
[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]• From 1789 to 1815, members of Congress received only a per diem (daily payment) of $6.00 while in session. Members began receiving an annual salary in 1815, when they were paid $1,500 per year.
Congress: Leadership Members' Salary (108th Congress)
Leaders of the House and Senate are paid a higher salary than rank-and-file members.

Senate Leadership
Majority Leader - $175,600 Minority Leader - $175,600 House Leadership
Speaker of the House - $203,000
Majority Leader - $175,600
Minority Leader - $175,600
​

• A cost-of-living-adjustment (COLA) increase takes effect annually unless Congress votes to not accept it.
Congress: Benefits
Members of Congress receive retirement and health benefits under the same plans available to other federal employees. They become vested after five years of full participation.
• Members elected since 1984 are covered by the Federal Employees' Retirement System (FERS). Those elected prior to 1984 were covered by the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). In 1984 all members were given the option of remaining with CSRS or switching to FERS.
• As it is for all other federal employees, congressional retirement is funded through taxes and the participants' contributions. Members of Congress under FERS contribute 1.3 percent of their salary into the FERS retirement plan and pay 6.2 percent of their salary in Social Security taxes.
Members of Congress are not eligible for a pension until they reach the age of 50, but only if they've completed 20 years of service. Members are eligible at any age after completing 25 years of service or after they reach the age of 62. Please also note that Member's of Congress have to serve at least 5 years to even receive a pension.
The amount of a Congressperson's pension depends on the years of service and the average of the highest 3 years of his or her salary. By law, the starting amount of a Member's retirement annuity may not exceed 80% of his or her final salary.
Data compiled in 20034 showed 413 retired Members of Congress were receiving federal pensions based fully or in part on their congressional service. The average age of those retiring under CSRS was 75.5 and had at least 20 years of federal service. Those who retired under FERS had an average age of 68.3 years and 21.6 years of federal service. Their average retirement payment was $3,909 a month.
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