Iraqi terror

grisb81 said:
All I am going to say is that "if you don't vote you can't complain". All this bitching on here isn't doing a lick of good for anybody. Everyone knows that Bush is a lying, stealing, no good piece of ****. He is about as good for this country as heroin is for a heroin addict.

Now what can we do? we can march our you know whats down to the poll and change all of that. The gift of a democracy.

Like your vote means much.......you are allowed to choose one whore over the other. Mind you, all of these charlatains that are propped up as candidates are cut from the same cord....those who begin their careers on the hill make their life's stay on the hill.....they are caught up in a vile world of relationships with various devils and no one individual candidate is truly a people's candidate.

The people's candidate would likely die in the primarys as a large percentage of the overall vote is cast by illiterates who are easily swayed and those who have ties to special interest.

No one that takes office is truly a representative of the people.....
 
Hogg you are so right again. Have you ever thought about getting into politics? I mean picture this....Arnold as Gov and Hogg as Lieutenant Gov.
 
Its funny how people are now saying they didnt want this war.
A year ago, if you protested the war, you were a terrorist yourself.
Well, dont cry about it now, baby.

CREWCHEIF... WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU FROM SON? RESERVISTS... NATIONAL GUARDS.. FIRST IN - LAST OUT??? ARE YOU MAD??

MARINES... FIRST IN, LAST OUT!!!! SEMPER FI!
 
crewchief said:
Anyone who joins the U.S military sings the same damn line and if they only joined for college then they got traped bye the bright lites of the sale sing that is just a ploy to get you in. If you really know what is in store the worst possible war . everyone who joins knows that death and war are possibilities of it even in the nationl guard and reserve hell the guard and reserve are the first ones in and the last ones out . i will tell you i have spent time in the middle east at the begginging of OIF and it was scary shit man but i knew what the rules of engaement where when i joined so i feel for my brothers and sisters dying but i have no pitty on the ones who joined for college or other shit! this is just how i feel sorry about the vent


A big amen to that! regardless of the conflict- whether it is right or wrong- every U.S. Serviceman/woman has a job and that is to follow the orders of those appointed over them- ultimately, the commander in chief. and it doesnt matter if you like him or not, you still do what he says. I too am sick and fucken tired of hearing families blame bush and our government because they have a loved one who was killed in war. yes, mourning is natural and healthy, but to place blame in that way makes no sense. every member of the armed forces takes an oath of duty and part of that oath says you will give your life if necessary. if you joined to get money for college, you joined for the wrong reason. people sometimes dont realize that it is the Profession of Arms- shitty jobs, combat, harsh environments- these are all parts of the game. but there are all too many people who join up to get that enlistment bonus and when it comes time to head off to fight, they throw a fit and blame the president. what the fuck do they think they are getting paid for?!?! it just frustrates me to no end. i do feel horrible for that 19 year old girl as well as any other servicemember that loses their life in duty, but again, it is one of the hazards of the job that people choose to not recognize.
 
nice post. i feel that a huge amt join just for the college and money opportunities. nver thinking they will fight. I am not against the war. I am against how it was fought. If we are going to be a part of the mideast than stop pussyfooting around
AirBorne said:
A big amen to that! regardless of the conflict- whether it is right or wrong- every U.S. Serviceman/woman has a job and that is to follow the orders of those appointed over them- ultimately, the commander in chief. and it doesnt matter if you like him or not, you still do what he says. I too am sick and fucken tired of hearing families blame bush and our government because they have a loved one who was killed in war. yes, mourning is natural and healthy, but to place blame in that way makes no sense. every member of the armed forces takes an oath of duty and part of that oath says you will give your life if necessary. if you joined to get money for college, you joined for the wrong reason. people sometimes dont realize that it is the Profession of Arms- shitty jobs, combat, harsh environments- these are all parts of the game. but there are all too many people who join up to get that enlistment bonus and when it comes time to head off to fight, they throw a fit and blame the president. what the fuck do they think they are getting paid for?!?! it just frustrates me to no end. i do feel horrible for that 19 year old girl as well as any other servicemember that loses their life in duty, but again, it is one of the hazards of the job that people choose to not recognize.
 
This is a tightly reasoned argument by someone who appears to know a great deal:

"No, you're there to fulfill the traditional role of working Americans -- to swallow the cum of Ivy League pimps like Bush with a smile on your face because the apologists for Corporate America on Fox TV have told you that it's honey, not semen.

Everything that is happening there now is something the rest of the world predicted and warned you about. Now you want to get out but soon it will be too late. Your soldiers are in a world of shit and they have you to blame.

Mission Accomplished, America. Where do I line up to get my flight jacket?"

In response to this subtle and persuasive argument I would like to say "F*** you" you pimple. I don't know where you are from, but I guess that it has not had to do much to keep the world peace in several centuries.
 
Rod said:
In response to this subtle and persuasive argument I would like to say "F*** you" you pimple. I don't know where you are from, but I guess that it has not had to do much to keep the world peace in several centuries.

Hey asswipe, have you ever thought about trying to refute the points I made rather than attacking me personally? Or is that too much of a strain?
 
thick said:
this is where you and so many are wrong. People need to wake the fuck up and quit blaming bush. Our country has been on this path of raping its own citizens for decades. It has really been piling on in the last 10 years. That is why I do feel there will be another civil war. This country has so much potential if we would take care of ourselves.




so u are trying to tell me that the reason we are fighting this senselsess war is not because of Bush. Yes the U.S. does try to take alot of the world's problems, but him being the commander in chief I hold him completly accountable.

Just like incubus's song Megalomaniac goes " your no jesus" "your no Elvis" step down step down step down.
 
greyowl said:
Hey asswipe, have you ever thought about trying to refute the points I made rather than attacking me personally? Or is that too much of a strain?

Ok I will dispute your points:

"No, you're there to fulfill the traditional role of working Americans -- to swallow the cum of Ivy League pimps like Bush with a smile on your face because the apologists for Corporate America on Fox TV have told you that it's honey, not semen."

We working Americans don't really drink allot of cum, and I have never been told by Fox News that cum is honey. Perhaps you have a reference?

Forget it, spending any time replying to this kind of rhetoric is too much of a strain.
 
well I am talking a broader spectrum of the U.S. problems not being Bush's fault. As for the war in Iraq, i think saddam needed to go and Gore is such a panty waist that france might be running the U.S. if he wouldve won. But we might not be in Iraq. either way i just disagree with how the war was fought
grisb81 said:
so u are trying to tell me that the reason we are fighting this senselsess war is not because of Bush. Yes the U.S. does try to take alot of the world's problems, but him being the commander in chief I hold him completly accountable.

Just like incubus's song Megalomaniac goes " your no jesus" "your no Elvis" step down step down step down.
 
Rod said:
Ok I will dispute your points:

"No, you're there to fulfill the traditional role of working Americans -- to swallow the cum of Ivy League pimps like Bush with a smile on your face because the apologists for Corporate America on Fox TV have told you that it's honey, not semen."

We working Americans don't really drink allot of cum, and I have never been told by Fox News that cum is honey. Perhaps you have a reference?

Forget it, spending any time replying to this kind of rhetoric is too much of a strain.

His points were loosely constructed and totally unsupported but the message was nonetheless there. Arent you tired of being lied to Rod? Honestly, arent you tired of losing 35-40% of your earnings to a government that has no culpability? Are you not tired of some of the poor decisions that the government has made and how the people always end up burdening the brunt of their bad decisions through taxes, fees, and inflation?

And quite honestly, the media is a whore yet she wears Donna Karan and looks presentable on camera. She will feed you popular sentiment and suggest that you are less than an American for not buying in.
 
Everyone has good points

I realize and understand that when someone joins they know there is a always a chance they could go to war. My problem is that she was helping the very people that our government keeps telling us want our help. They do? Does anyone here still honestly believes they want us there. If you do read the link I provided. No way, no how is the U.S. wanted there. As far as blaming Bush, maybe it is all him. Who's to really say? The last election we had a ferry or Bush. IMO we didn't have anyone to chose from. Thats exactly what Hogg is saying, it doesn't matter who we vote for, they do what THEY want. A civil war? Only a matter of time. There are militia groups popping up everyday in this country. The people are getting fed up. I honestly hope I am not still around when it happens.
 
Hogg said:
And quite honestly, the media is a whore yet she wears Donna Karan and looks presentable on camera. She will feed you popular sentiment and suggest that you are less than an American for not buying in.

As usual, very wise!

-OT
 
"Arent you tired of being lied to Rod? Honestly, arent you tired of losing 35-40% of your earnings to a government that has no culpability? Are you not tired of some of the poor decisions that the government has made and how the people always end up burdening the brunt of their bad decisions through taxes, fees, and inflation?"

Nothing pisses me off more than having to pay greater than 40% of my income in taxes considering fed ,state, and local. But lets forget that for now, that is another thread.

I was talking about our involvement in Iraq. I do not think that we were lied to about the reasons for getting involved in Iraq. I believe those in our govt that have said that it did appear as if Iraq had WMD. Hell, the whole world thought that they had WMD. I don't believe that it was an irresponsible decision to attack Iraq. Making decisions in the real world involves uncertainty.

I supported Bush in the last election. I considered him best among those running. I will support him in the next election because he is better than the alternatives. Is he my ideal? No. Is he better than Kerry? Hell yes! My ideal candidate would support lowering taxes to about a 10% flat tax.
 
RodI supported Bush in the last election. I considered him best among those running. I will support him in the next election because he is better than the alternatives. Is he my ideal? No. Is he better than Kerry? Hell yes! My ideal candidate would support lowering taxes to about a 10% flat tax.[/QUOTE said:
I agree, he is the best choice given the options. Ideal no, but better than the alternatives.

As far as the lying, it extends beyond Iraq......the government deceives the public on a daily basis. Secrets, black budgets, re-allocated funds, poor allocation of the taxpayer dollar, lack of accountability.....it is all fraud, waste, and abuse in my opinion. I'd just appreciate more accountability, better disclosure, sensible use of taxpayer dollars, and to see government take the position of being responsible to the taxpayer rather than to abuse us as a cash cow to fund their personal agenda.


There is no such thing as an ideal politician in my book, we have to take the best of a shitty herd that is served up to us.
 
I supported the war a year ago and will continue to support it.

I dont think any rational and reasonable person would ever run for president or higher elected office. Who the hell would want to serve up their entire past on a platter to the media and opposing party? No one is perfect at all. Just imagine what could be discovered in your own personal background! Who would want any of our family or friends to know, let alone have it broadcast around the world on primetime news? Because of this, we end up with something far removed from the best actual person for the job.
 
Proof

Since Hogg justifiably observes that my "points were loosely constructed and totally unsupported", I have taken the time to provide some substantiation for my remarks. Here are the top most outrageous and significant of the dozens of outright lies uttered by Bush and his top officials over the past year in what amounts to a systematic campaign to scare the bejeezus out of everybody:

LIE #1: "The evidence indicates that Iraq is reconstituting its nuclear weapons program ... Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons." President Bush, Oct. 7, 2002, in Cincinnati.


FACT: This story, leaked to and breathlessly reported by Judith Miller in the New York Times, has turned out to be complete baloney. Department of Energy officials, who monitor nuclear plants, say the tubes could not be used for enriching uranium. One intelligence analyst, who was part of the tubes investigation, angrily told The New Republic: "You had senior American officials like Condoleezza Rice saying the only use of this aluminum really is uranium centrifuges. She said that on television. And that's just a lie."


LIE #2: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." President Bush, Jan.28, 2003, in the State of the Union address.


FACT: This whopper was based on a document that the White House already knew to be a forgery thanks to the CIA. Sold to Italian intelligence by some hustler, the document carried the signature of an official who had been out of office for 10 years and referenced a constitution that was no longer in effect. The ex-ambassador who the CIA sent to check out the story is pissed: "They knew the Niger story was a flat-out lie," he told the New Republic, anonymously. "They [the White House] were unpersuasive about aluminum tubes and added this to make their case more strongly."


LIE #3: "We believe [Saddam] has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons." Vice President Cheney on March 16, 2003 on "Meet the Press."


FACT: There was and is absolutely zero basis for this statement. CIA reports up through 2002 showed no evidence of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program.


LIE #4: "[The CIA possesses] solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al-Qaeda going back a decade." CIA Director George Tenet in a written statement released Oct. 7, 2002 and echoed in that evening's speech by President Bush.


FACT: Intelligence agencies found no proof of a continuing relationship between Saddam and al-Qaeda in the early '90s.


LIE #5: "We've learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases ... Alliance with terrorists could allow the Iraqi regime to attack America without leaving any fingerprints." President Bush, Oct. 7.


FACT: No evidence of this has ever been leaked or produced. Colin Powell told the U.N. this alleged training took place in a camp in northern Iraq. To his great embarrassment, the area he indicated was later revealed to be outside Iraq's control and patrolled by Allied war planes.


LIE #6: "We have also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We are concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVs [unmanned aerial vehicles] for missions targeting the United States." President Bush, Oct. 7.


FACT: Said drones can't fly more than 300 miles, and Iraq is 6,000 miles from the U.S. coastline. Furthermore, Iraq's drone-building program wasn't much more advanced than your average model plane enthusiast. And isn't a "manned aerial vehicle" just a scary way to say "plane"?


LIE #7: "We have seen intelligence over many months that they have chemical and biological weapons, and that they have dispersed them and that they're weaponized and that, in one case at least, the command and control arrangements have been established." President Bush, Feb. 8, 2003, in a national radio address.


FACT: Despite a massive nationwide search by U.S. and British forces, there are no signs, traces or examples of chemical weapons being deployed in the field, or anywhere else during the war.


LIE #8: "Our conservative estimate is that Iraq today has a stockpile of between 100 and 500 tons of chemical weapons agent. That is enough to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." Secretary of State Colin Powell, Feb. 5 2003, in remarks to the UN Security Council.


FACT: Putting aside the glaring fact that not one drop of this massive stockpile has been found, as previously reported on AlterNet the United States' own intelligence reports show that these stocks if they existed were well past their use-by date and therefore useless as weapon fodder.


LIE #9: "We know where Iraq's WMD are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south, and north somewhat." Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003, in statements to the press.


FACT: Needless to say, no such weapons were found, not to the east, west, south or north, somewhat or otherwise.


LIE #10: "Yes, we found a biological laboratory in Iraq which the UN prohibited." President Bush in remarks in Poland, published internationally June 1, 2003.


FACT: This was reference to the discovery of two modified truck trailers that the CIA claimed were potential mobile biological weapons lab. But British and American experts including the State Department's intelligence wing in a report released this week have since declared this to be untrue. According to the British, and much to Prime Minister Tony Blair's embarrassment, the trailers are actually exactly what Iraq said they were; facilities to fill weather balloons, sold to them by the British themselves.


So, months after the war, we are once again where we started with plenty of rhetoric and absolutely no proof of this "grave danger". The Bush administration is now scrambling to place the blame for its lies on faulty intelligence, when in fact the intelligence was fine; it was their abuse of it that was "faulty."

Rather than apologize for leading Americans into a preemptive war based on impossibly faulty or shamelessly distorted "intelligence" or offering his resignation, President Forest Gump is starting to sound more like O.J. Simpson, Like the man who cheerfully played golf while promising to pursue "the real killers," Bush is now vowing to search for "the true extent of Saddam Hussein's weapons programs, no matter how long it takes."
 
"I'd just appreciate more accountability, better disclosure, sensible use of taxpayer dollars, and to see government take the position of being responsible to the taxpayer rather than to abuse us as a cash cow to fund their personal agenda."

I couldn't agree more with the above quote.

"There is no such thing as an ideal politician in my book, we have to take the best of a shitty herd that is served up to us."

Nor, could I agree more with the above quote. I am just concerned that we will be dissatisfied with our current Pres and this will lead some of us to vote for change for the purpose of change. Forgetting that he is the best selection among the "shitty herd". Then we get Kerry. Talk about a tax burden.
 
What happened to all the chemical and bio weapons that Iraq claimed to the UN weapons inspectors back in the early 90s? Id he had destroyed them, he would have declared that to the UN in order to get the weapons inspectors off his ass.
 
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