Is HGH Gut (irreversible intestinal growth) a real thing?

[MFAAS]

I have seen some sources (like this MPMD article) claim that HGH gut isn't real--that it is basically just indigestion and the stomach being overly filled with food because those massive guys need to eat such a huge amount of food just to exist.

I have also seen some people claim it is actually because of insulin abuse, not HGH (though the two often go hand-in-hand).

Obviously we don't know FOR SURE. I am not a huge fan of MPMD, I think often times he tells people what they want to hear and the bros then take it as fact due to confirmation bias.

It doesn't seem like that is any real studies about this in humans. I did find this study in mice, which showed a small increase in intestinal mass due to either IGF-1 or GH administration. The increase was in the small intestines, but had no affect on the large intestines (fig 1 and 2). However, it seems like glucagon-like peptide-2 and combinations of various growth factors had the largest effect on bowel mass by far. The treatment for the mice was 14 days, so relatively short even in mice. One could then surmise that, over a longer treatment period, the mass would further increase to some degree.

1. Has anyone here gotten "HGH Gut?" Did it go away when you stopped stuffing your face with as much food as possible?
2. Or, even if you didn't get full blown HGH gut, did you experience any kind of intestinal growth based off your photos from before & after HGH use?
3. How much HGH did you use and for how long did you use it? What was the frequency of administration (daily, EOD, etc.)?

I personally have used prescribed/compounded Ipamorelin/MOD-GRF intermittently for the last 2 years, but never HGH. I have not noticed any gut growth, myself. Although on days when I eat as much as I possibly can, I definitely look far more bloated in the stomach. Then in the morning I wake up and poop and am back to being thin and lean.

Thanks yall!

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

I heard Mountain Dog sayin “it’s just poop” ... so I’m done with this argument... I saw even lot of pros after retirement and they weren’t screwed..

acromegalic people should have then fuckin huge belly... and that’s not the case...

So I m pretty sure is the good old fuckin clueless broscience legend , lot stupid people need to feel smarter, so they speak without any doubt... they re fuckin sure of the shit they re talking about..

 

[FlyGuy3232]

Its broscience.

Look at Palumbo at his biggest and look at him now.

 

[malfeasance]

I have seen some sources (like this MPMD article) claim that HGH gut isn't re

That Ben Pakulski before and after is pretty good evidence that his intestines did not irreversibly grow. It was gas and poop, essentially bloat.

 

[malfeasance]

It doesn't seem like that is any real studies about this in humans. I did find this study in mice, which showed a small increase in intestinal mass due to either IGF-1 or GH administration.

Did hgh by itself really cause significant growth apart from overall body growth? It does not look like it.

 

[MFAAS]

Did hgh by itself really cause significant growth apart from overall body growth? It does not look like it.

Correct, the growth was very slight and the ratio to actual body weight gained, it definitely was nothing compared to the body builders out there that get it.

Personally I am moving forward under the assumption that it doesn't cause bubble gut, at least not in any meaningful way. It's possible HGH + insulin (which appears to be relatively popular from my reading) would have a larger effect. They didn't measure insulin in the study, but they did measure several combinations of things which had larger effects. With the "shotgun" approach to insulin (vs something like a GLP-1 or GLP-2 receptor agonist), perhaps that is increasing the risk of organ growth beyond just HGH use.

Additionally, perhaps the combinations of HGH and different steroids causes the effect to be amplified.

If anyone can find the full text for this study, that'd be awesome: Effect of continuous infusion of an anabolic steroid on murine skeletal muscle - PubMed

Still though, even under those conditions, it seems unlikely.

I know when I am bulking, sometimes by the end of the day my stomach looks like a mini-bubble gut LOL. Then in the morning I am back to being slim and lean.

Do any body builders still even really get bubble gut nowadays? It seems like it was a lot more common back in the day.

To turn this thread to a more personal thing. I am very interested in using HGH. I am pretty wary of using HGH myself (though I use GHRPs/GHRHs), likely mostly due to lack of knowledge (I haven't looked into it a whole lot) and fear of some of the side effects such as insulin resistance, reduction in endogenous HGH production, and potential gyno (although I had a full gland removal done, I am REALLY not trying to ever have to do that procedure again). However, I think the benefits are very clear, particularly benefits to sleep (which I desperately need), recovery, and collagen production which is reduced by supraphysiological levels of testosterone, negatively impacting skin/tendon/ligament health.

It seems like issues with tolerance and reduction in endogenous HGH production can be mitigated by dosing EOD instead of ED.

It seems like issues regarding insulin resistance can be mitigated by timing your dose properly, and ideally monitoring blood glucose levels to ensure you aren't dosing at a time when blood sugar is too high. HGH also induces gluconeogenesis, so a net increase in blood sugar is possible. If your body cannot produce enough insulin to shuttle this away, then you end up with insulin resistance and issues long term. Although it is unlikely to turn into diabetes unless you are really fucking things up with your dosing/timing, I still would like to avoid it.

Previously, the risk of developing bubble gut scared be, although I am not really concerned about that anymore after doing more research. I am not trying to get as big as the mass monsters.

Question for those who use HGH. My understanding is that Ipamorelin/MOD-GRF can get you to around the same levels of GH that ~2 IU of HGH would. Additionally, because they are causing your body to produce additional endogenous GH, there isn't the same risk of blunting your body's ability to produce endogenous GH (though tolerance is still an issue and proper cycling is required). If I am already using ipa/mod-grf, is it even worth it to make the "jump up" to real HGH?

So yeah, I am on the fence about it. I think that HGH could likely benefit me alot, at least while blasting. But I still have some things I am nervous about with it. Does anyone have some good articles they can send my way that covers HGH pretty holistically? When I search the googles I just get all these bullshit, half-assed websites like crazybulk.com, which just have low quality articles that seem to be very biased. Any resources people have would be much appreciated to post them here/send my way!

 

[NorthMich]

Jesus what a great post

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Correct, the growth was very slight and the ratio to actual body weight gained, it definitely was nothing compared to the body builders out there that get it.

Personally I am moving forward under the assumption that it doesn't cause bubble gut, at least not in any meaningful way. It's possible HGH + insulin (which appears to be relatively popular from my reading) would have a larger effect. They didn't measure insulin in the study, but they did measure several combinations of things which had larger effects. With the "shotgun" approach to insulin (vs something like a GLP-1 or GLP-2 receptor agonist), perhaps that is increasing the risk of organ growth beyond just HGH use.

Additionally, perhaps the combinations of HGH and different steroids causes the effect to be amplified.

If anyone can find the full text for this study, that'd be awesome: Effect of continuous infusion of an anabolic steroid on murine skeletal muscle - PubMed

Still though, even under those conditions, it seems unlikely.

I know when I am bulking, sometimes by the end of the day my stomach looks like a mini-bubble gut LOL. Then in the morning I am back to being slim and lean.

Do any body builders still even really get bubble gut nowadays? It seems like it was a lot more common back in the day.

To turn this thread to a more personal thing. I am very interested in using HGH. I am pretty wary of using HGH myself (though I use GHRPs/GHRHs), likely mostly due to lack of knowledge (I haven't looked into it a whole lot) and fear of some of the side effects such as insulin resistance, reduction in endogenous HGH production, and potential gyno (although I had a full gland removal done, I am REALLY not trying to ever have to do that procedure again). However, I think the benefits are very clear, particularly benefits to sleep (which I desperately need), recovery, and collagen production which is reduced by supraphysiological levels of testosterone, negatively impacting skin/tendon/ligament health.

It seems like issues with tolerance and reduction in endogenous HGH production can be mitigated by dosing EOD instead of ED.

It seems like issues regarding insulin resistance can be mitigated by timing your dose properly, and ideally monitoring blood glucose levels to ensure you aren't dosing at a time when blood sugar is too high. HGH also induces gluconeogenesis, so a net increase in blood sugar is possible. If your body cannot produce enough insulin to shuttle this away, then you end up with insulin resistance and issues long term. Although it is unlikely to turn into diabetes unless you are really fucking things up with your dosing/timing, I still would like to avoid it.

Previously, the risk of developing bubble gut scared be, although I am not really concerned about that anymore after doing more research. I am not trying to get as big as the mass monsters.

Question for those who use HGH. My understanding is that Ipamorelin/MOD-GRF can get you to around the same levels of GH that ~2 IU of HGH would. Additionally, because they are causing your body to produce additional endogenous GH, there isn't the same risk of blunting your body's ability to produce endogenous GH (though tolerance is still an issue and proper cycling is required). If I am already using ipa/mod-grf, is it even worth it to make the "jump up" to real HGH?

So yeah, I am on the fence about it. I think that HGH could likely benefit me alot, at least while blasting. But I still have some things I am nervous about with it. Does anyone have some good articles they can send my way that covers HGH pretty holistically? When I search the googles I just get all these bullshit, half-assed websites like crazybulk.com, which just have low quality articles that seem to be very biased. Any resources people have would be much appreciated to post them here/send my way!

You should take HGH peps secretogogues without insulin in blood so it’s a hell...

I take HGH 3.3iu ED and i m not planning to live long to make TRT and HGHRT an issue.. so i don’t mind and don’t think it’s a serious problem.. maybe you can search protocols from anti aging clinic and so on...

 

[malfeasance]

i m not planning to live long

Is this a language or translation into English issue, or are you really planning to die early?

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Is this a language or translation into English issue, or are you really planning to die early?

ahah that wasn’t an issue... I mean, I don’t care about living long, not that I m managing to die early.. cmon don’t go off topic man... ain’t talking about love...my love is rotten to the core (Rip Eddie Van Halen)

 

[Bumpygooch]

An anecdote from Dan the BB from Thailand, he speculates that GH slows digestion. Which would verify the poop/shit/gas/food/bloat theory. I add the caveat that I have NOT actually verified this.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

An anecdote from Dan the BB from Thailand, he speculates that GH slows digestion. Which would verify the poop/shit/gas/food/bloat theory. I add the caveat that I have NOT actually verified this.

i add 50mcg of T4 with last meal, while on HGH , now on tren and HGH, as HGH and Tren speed up the conversion from T4 to T3... I think that slowed digestion or metabolization can be due to lack of T3 ...

I took blood some times ago while on tren , not on HGH, my T3 levels were so fuckin high... and I wasn’t on exogenous T3/T4 ... so it’s a true thing

 

[MFAAS]

An anecdote from Dan the BB from Thailand, he speculates that GH slows digestion. Which would verify the poop/shit/gas/food/bloat theory. I add the caveat that I have NOT actually verified this.

I actually did search for studies around intestinal transit time and HGH, but wasn't able to find anything. I was really hoping there would at least be something in rats, but there was nothing that measured anything like that specifically.

Interesting to know about thyroid affecting digestion speed. I see hyperthyroidism often causes diarrhea due to sped up digestion. Makes sense that hypothyroidism would slow it down. Given that HGH appears to essentially slow down gastric motility (although unverified by studies AFAIK), it makes sense that people would be more prone to bubble gut until they dial back their diet and start pooping it all out.

I'll just pop these here, massive articles. Both are really good:

The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Hypertrophy - MESO-Rx (WOW this gets really in depth)

The Most Effective Growth Hormone Protocol for Fat Loss - MESO-Rx

What will be included within this article (for those that do not care about how I arrived at my recommended stack design, and just want the answer, feel

thinksteroids.com

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

I always wonder what Ronnie Coleman did to go from 90kg to 140kg...




just curious.. it was perfect at 90kg for me...

Cannot wonder what the fuck he did... 1000iu Lantus daily with 50iu HGH and 20k kcals ?

 

[MFAAS]

haha I know, I totally agree he was looking perfect at 90 kg! I'm not a huge fan of Joe Rogan anymore, but it was interesting listening to Ronnie a few months back on his podcast. Ronnie said he never did PCT . He just "stopped" and everything went back to normal apparently

Regardless, I can't imagine the amounts of substances you'd have to take to get that big. I feel like it would be uncomfortable just to exist when you're that big LOL (and it is, many of those guys get really bad sleep apnea, etc. I am sure the "GH gut" is uncomfortable too)

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

An Italian bber, very big, Andrea Presti that weighs 135kg said that he couldn’t get into and drive a Lamborghini Huracan , thats fuckin bad ahah...

Can’t understand their body dysmorphia... for me , something beyond Arnold at his best at Olympia is too much

but even good old Steeve Reeves is fantastic

 

[MFAAS]

You should take HGH peps secretogogues without insulin in blood so it’s a hell...

I take HGH 3.3iu ED and i m not planning to live long to make TRT and HGHRT an issue.. so i don’t mind and don’t think it’s a serious problem.. maybe you can search protocols from anti aging clinic and so on.

Agree on that, just the strength of the GH-releasing peptides is lesser than that of true exogenous HGH, so perhaps less risk in that regard? Question for you, do you know of any guidelines as far as what blood glucose levels should/shouldn't be before dosing HGH?

For example, if I have a blood glucose tester and see my glucose level is 160, I definitely shouldn't dose HGH. What about if it is 60? What about 110? I've been looking for a range (or safety window/box and whisker chart) of when to and not to dose HGH.

 

[FR0Z3N_B0MB3RRR]

Agree on that, just the strength of the GH-releasing peptides is lesser than that of true exogenous HGH, so perhaps less risk in that regard? Question for you, do you know of any guidelines as far as what blood glucose levels should/shouldn't be before dosing HGH?

For example, if I have a blood glucose tester and see my glucose level is 160, I definitely shouldn't dose HGH. What about if it is 60? What about 110? I've been looking for a range (or safety window/box and whisker chart) of when to and not to dose HGH.

Uhm no i m sorry, never thought about that..

Maybe if you run it on empty stomach pre cardio, at something like 3iu ED, it shouldn’t bother you...

Don’t know, I’ll ask @mands thats very knowledgeable

 

[malfeasance]

Fasting or even severely restricting calories will restore insulin sensitivity in just a number of days.

Insulin resistance is just a factor of eating too much. Muscles have glycogen. Fat cells have plenty of triglyceride. But you keep eating, and your blood glucose keeps rising, and so your body pumps out more insulin, which is a signal to GLUT 4 to transport things through the cell membrane.

But the cells are full.

Think of insulin as knocking on the door of the cell. When it is empty, no problem, open up, shove something in there. As the cell gets fuller, nobody wants to open the door, right? Your house if full of persons, you don't want to open the door when insulin is knocking to stuff more persons in the house, right? So insulin is like a pissed off cop, and it starts knocking louder until you open the door and they shove some more persons in your house.

More insulin is a louder knock (message).

It gets more difficult to stuff the cells as you keep eating, and more and more insulin is produced to scrub the blood of glucose.

So when glucose is rising, insulin resistance, it means that your cells are all filled up, but you keep stuffing your face. So even though there is more insulin, the blood glucose is still high.

This is not a healthy state for the body to be in.

Starving yourself (fasting) lowers blood glucose swiftly. The cells use what is available and soon are empty, screaming for more, and opening the front door at the slightest whiff of insulin knocking with a house guest, like a lonely grandfather when he gets a visit from his favorite grandson.

That is restored insulin sensitivity.

Real diabetes does not happen until years and years of this abuse of the body by overfeeding, and early type II diabetes can easily be cured by starvation. Literally going on a hard cut once in a while does wonders for restoring insulin sensitivity. Why do you think bodybuilders gain so well after a contest?

 

[malfeasance]

Fouad Abiad said his distended gut was cured precontest by not eating so much and taking Senna (an OTC laxative) the day before the contest, on the advice of John Meadows.