Is my dr trying to f#*k my hormones?

[remanned]

Fellas,

I went to a local anti-aging Dr to get GH, cos I know he prescribes it. I wanted a low dose of it (1 or 2 iu's a day) because I am trying to stave off injuries and keep playing sport for the next 8 years or so. I'm already on TRT and I generally feel fine, a little sluggish sometimes but I thought everyone does. I just want to prevent and recover from injuries faster.
Here's what I came away with. He wants me to take;

1 x 10mg Hydrocortisone in the morning
2 x 0.5grain Armour thyroid a day
2 x 50mg DHEA capsules a day
1 x 0.25mg spray of Melatonin before bed.

My questions to the board are;
Can taking these mess me up, and if so, which ones?
Are any of them good to take as supplements with no harm?
Just from a cursory read of the threads it seems hydrocort is a hot potato, what about the Armour thyroid?

Anyway your feedback is much appreciated, I suspect there is a bit more knowledge in these halls than there is down at the local anti-aging clinic.

 

[cvictorg]

Fellas,

I went to a local anti-aging Dr to get GH, cos I know he prescribes it. I wanted a low dose of it (1 or 2 iu's a day) because I am trying to stave off injuries and keep playing sport for the next 8 years or so. I'm already on TRT and I generally feel fine, a little sluggish sometimes but I thought everyone does. I just want to prevent and recover from injuries faster.
Here's what I came away with. He wants me to take;

1 x 10mg Hydrocortisone in the morning
2 x 0.5grain Armour thyroid a day
2 x 50mg DHEA capsules a day
1 x 0.25mg spray of Melatonin before bed.

My questions to the board are;
Can taking these mess me up, and if so, which ones?
Are any of them good to take as supplements with no harm?
Just from a cursory read of the threads it seems hydrocort is a hot potato, what about the Armour thyroid?

Anyway your feedback is much appreciated, I suspect there is a bit more knowledge in these halls than there is down at the local anti-aging clinic.

What did the doctor do before prescribing you these?

Unless you have adult growth hormone syndrome it is ILLEGAL for a doctor to prescribe GH

 

[remanned]

He has my levels on a bunch of other stuff, not GH though. I dont know what the law is on prescribing GH in Australia, only that he will prescribe it.
My query is more to do with what he has given me just now.

 

[CubbieBlue]

He has my levels on a bunch of other stuff, not GH though. I dont know what the law is on prescribing GH in Australia, only that he will prescribe it.
My query is more to do with what he has given me just now.

What's the diagnosis? What are the labs? We cannot comment in a helpful manner unless we know what is going on with you.

 

[remanned]

Sorry, all I know at this stage is that all my values were within the normal range, this guy is one of those anti-aging types who wants to set my levels back to what they were when I was 21 (I'm 36 now). I'm not medically deficient in anything.
I guess my question is, will the Armour thyroid and Hydrocortisone top up what I naturally have or will exogenuous supplementation down regulate what I naturally have via a feedback mechanism?

 

[Gator8]

You'll be a basket case when he's done with you.

 

[remanned]

^^ Haha.

Is there any of these worth keeping? What about the DHEA?

I'm going to pick up a copy of my bloods this afternoon and I'll post the relevant results.

I tried this medley of potions today (I figure one day can't hurt?) and though I don't feel any different, I have less pain in my injured rib and felt stronger in the gym fwiw.

 

[zkt]

You'll be a basket case when he's done with you.

How ya doing buddy? Long time no type.

 

[zkt]

Fellas,

I went to a local anti-aging Dr to get GH, cos I know he prescribes it. I wanted a low dose of it (1 or 2 iu's a day) because I am trying to stave off injuries and keep playing sport for the next 8 years or so. I'm already on TRT and I generally feel fine, a little sluggish sometimes but I thought everyone does. I just want to prevent and recover from injuries faster.
Here's what I came away with. He wants me to take;

1 x 10mg Hydrocortisone in the morning
2 x 0.5grain Armour thyroid a day
2 x 50mg DHEA capsules a day
1 x 0.25mg spray of Melatonin before bed.

My questions to the board are;
Can taking these mess me up, and if so, which ones?
Are any of them good to take as supplements with no harm?
Just from a cursory read of the threads it seems hydrocort is a hot potato, what about the Armour thyroid?

Anyway your feedback is much appreciated, I suspect there is a bit more knowledge in these halls than there is down at the local anti-aging clinic.

The melatonin is a fairly good sleeping aid. Kinda short in the half life but makes you sleepy. Also has some antioxidant properties. Not a bad thing.
DHEA : maybe have some effect- maybe not - the anechdodal evidence is mixed as are the clinical studies. Probably wont hurt.
Armour (0.5gr/d); All this will do is cause your HP axis to cut back on endogenous production of T4 with subsequent T3 conversion and nothing will really change.
10mg Hydrocortisone: this is gonna come dowh basically like the thyroid med effect. But the HC is proportionately a much larger dose so once you stop the HC it will take longer to get your endogenous cortisol levels back up. On the other hand if you are recovering from an injury the HC might deter you immune system from interfering with the healing process. But at this small of a dose I doubt it.
Did you get the GH along with all the bad medicine?

 

[vantage108]

The DHEA dose is high by current standards -- I have adrenal failure and have tried DHEA replacement, and I find that anything over 50 mg/day is overkill. 100 a day shouldn't do you any harm, but if you find yourself with greasy skin or caffeine-like jitters, try cutting the dose down to 25 or 50 a day (or dumping it altogether, since it doesn't really seem to do much for most folks who aren't over-40 women with Addison's Disease.)

Melatonin's fine. The other stuff... I echo what zkt said. Kind of baffling, and possibly mildly harmful. Can you post your labs?

 

[BBC3]

Yea I don't know there. While GH is no joke, I don't know what the fuck he is doing fucking around with your thyroid!!??! I dont know why, but Health&Wellness docs really seem to take throwing some Armour on the fire lightly as used for weight loss. Me thinks he thinks he has his own magic potion. What he has there is no substitute for GH though. YOU WONT find many/ANY docs willing to write GH quickly. Really there are not any legit uses for this in current medical practice other than children with deficiencies...

I have kicked around the thought are adding some thyroid meds to effect the weight loss but I fear the reprecussions. Perhaps Doc Scally could expound as to the risks...?!?

Fellas,

I went to a local anti-aging Dr to get GH, cos I know he prescribes it. I wanted a low dose of it (1 or 2 iu's a day) because I am trying to stave off injuries and keep playing sport for the next 8 years or so. I'm already on TRT and I generally feel fine, a little sluggish sometimes but I thought everyone does. I just want to prevent and recover from injuries faster.
Here's what I came away with. He wants me to take;

1 x 10mg Hydrocortisone in the morning
2 x 0.5grain Armour thyroid a day
2 x 50mg DHEA capsules a day
1 x 0.25mg spray of Melatonin before bed.

My questions to the board are;
Can taking these mess me up, and if so, which ones?
Are any of them good to take as supplements with no harm?
Just from a cursory read of the threads it seems hydrocort is a hot potato, what about the Armour thyroid?

Anyway your feedback is much appreciated, I suspect there is a bit more knowledge in these halls than there is down at the local anti-aging clinic.

 

[remanned]

Ok guys, got some labs here. I really appreciate the responses by the way, great to feel like I can make some informed decisions.

Cortisol (morning) 315 nmol/L (171 - 536)
TSH 1.96 mU/L (0.40 - 4.00)

Those tests were done back in January and no testing since. Since then I have been on Primoteston depot from a different doctor because my test was low normal, specifically;

Testosterone 14.6 nmol/L (10 - 35)
SHBG 35 nmol/L (15 - 45)
Free androgen index 42 (35 - 93)
Free testosterone 285.2 pmol/L (198 - 619)
FSH 8 U/L ( 1 - 15)
LH 4 U/L ( 1 - 9)
Oestradiol 52 pmol/L (40 - 160)
Progesterone* * 0.8 nmol ( <0.6 ) *
LH/FSH ratio 0.50

I felt like a million bucks after going on primo. I'm supposed to take 1mil (250mg) every 3 weeks but have been doing it every 2 weeks instead. I got a script for HCG to add but there is a worldwide shortage evidently.

I feel like I wouldn't be in this GH boat if it wasn't for this same doctor. I went and saw him just over a month ago to get some pregnenolone, because there wasn't any HCG around. Well of course this guy won't just give me pregnenolone, it comes in a troche with DHEA (50), testosterone (115), pregnenolone ((20), and progesterone (15). I decided to run it for a week and then bam, I was sparring (boxing) with a local heavyweight, he hits me with a good shot and it sprains my rib. Now it was a good shot but I've been hit with much harder, it certainly didn't feel like enough to do the damage that it did. I'm thinking the excess progesterone, which I'm already high in in the above results, may have softened the ligaments?

So I might run the DHEA at one cap (50) a day and see how that goes, and use the melatonin as well. I'll forget the armour thyroid and the cortisol, although the possibility of the cortisol helping my rib heal really intrigues me. How long could you run it without getting significant suppression?

At any rate, still no GH. He says he'll give it to me after I get some more tests done... *sigh*

 

[zkt]

Thr glucorticold wont heal your rib. It MAY prevent your immune system from interfering with the healing prodess. Remember how wjen you were younger how trauma healed much faster as compared to when you got older? That is because as we age our immune system increasingly loses the ability to discriminate between self and non-self. End result is that it attacks things it shouldnt- like injuries. Tone it down and recoveryu time is often decreased.
As to dosing, the usual method is a medrol dosepak.

Medrol (Methylprednisolone) Drug Information: User Reviews, Side Effects, Drug Interactions and Dosage at RxList

Rxing this for a sprained rib might be considered an off-label use by some.
No significant adrenal shutdown results with a single administration.
It will take the pain and swelling down usually.

 

[CubbieBlue]

Thr glucorticold wont heal your rib. It MAY prevent your immune system from interfering with the healing prodess. Remember how wjen you were younger how trauma healed much faster as compared to when you got older? That is because as we age our immune system increasingly loses the ability to discriminate between self and non-self. End result is that it attacks things it shouldnt- like injuries. Tone it down and recoveryu time is often decreased.
As to dosing, the usual method is a medrol dosepak.

Medrol (Methylprednisolone) Drug Information: User Reviews, Side Effects, Drug Interactions and Dosage at RxList

Rxing this for a sprained rib might be considered an off-label use by some.
No significant adrenal shutdown results with a single administration.
It will take the pain and swelling down usually.

ZKT, where do you get that from? I would argue that the causative agent there is decreased GH and sometimes T rather than the immune system going haywire.

 

[zkt]

ZKT, where do you get that from? I would argue that the causative agent there is decreased GH and sometimes T rather than the immune system going haywire.

That may also be a factor . But the GC will reduce the swelling and inflammation and thats where most of the pain comes from. Remember how I injured my thumb joint and nothing helped but dosing it with medrol for 18 mts. It is well understood that immure activity changes with aging and goes from a restructive activity to more destructive one. There was an excellent lecture on UCTV concerning this. Its probably in the archives.

 

[remanned]

That may also be a factor . But the GC will reduce the swelling and inflammation and thats where most of the pain comes from. Remember how I injured my thumb joint and nothing helped but dosing it with medrol for 18 mts. It is well understood that immure activity changes with aging and goes from a restructive activity to more destructive one. There was an excellent lecture on UCTV concerning this. Its probably in the archives.

Thats interesting, I definitely felt less pain and swelling on the morning that I took the hydrocortisone. In that link you posted there is a piece on alternate day therapy (ADT), whereby you use it every other day to avoid suppression. Evidentally the anti-inflammatory effects linger after the drug has gone from the system so this might be a good option to get some of the benefits and avoid the pitfalls.

 

[zkt]

Thats interesting, I definitely felt less pain and swelling on the morning that I took the hydrocortisone. In that link you posted there is a piece on alternate day therapy (ADT), whereby you use it every other day to avoid suppression. Evidentally the anti-inflammatory effects linger after the drug has gone from the system so this might be a good option to get some of the benefits and avoid the pitfalls.

The half life (T1/2) of HC is short (8hrs). So it takes 40 hrs to get fully out of the system. But if you take it a 7am by 8 pm half is gone and by the next day only1/4 remains. Thas not a significant amount. The ADT is sometimes used for longer T1/2 GCs like prednisone or medrol if used long term. A medrol dosepak is taken with a decreasing dose for a week but the drug is in your system for another week or so. Sometimes with the larger dose of a more potent drug the immune system leaves the injury alone for long enough for significant recovery to occur. The dosepak interval is no more than once every six months. So unless you want to go thru restarting your adrenal axis ( no fun) one medrol dosepak is it.

 

[CubbieBlue]

That may also be a factor . But the GC will reduce the swelling and inflammation and thats where most of the pain comes from. Remember how I injured my thumb joint and nothing helped but dosing it with medrol for 18 mts. It is well understood that immure activity changes with aging and goes from a restructive activity to more destructive one. There was an excellent lecture on UCTV concerning this. Its probably in the archives.

I do remember your thumb story, but honestly, I am not sold on the fact that the GCs did anything but temporarily relieve pain. Eventually it healed, but what role exactly did the GCs have?

The inflammation process is crucial for healing to occur. If you completely turned it off then damage would never get repaired. I understand a healthy balance must be reached.

 

[remanned]

Just out of curiosity, how would you use HC to effect the window of healing without shutting yourself down, if you had no Medrol available?

Personally I think I'll just keep pushing for the GH, cortisol sounds riskier. Being injured sucks though.

Just as an aside, does anyone know why you would be slower to recover from injury after going on TRT (testosterone only)? I know I'm not imagining this.

 

[zkt]

I do remember your thumb story, but honestly, I am not sold on the fact that the GCs did anything but temporarily relieve pain. Eventually it healed, but what role exactly did the GCs have?

The inflammation process is crucial for healing to occur. If you completely turned it off then damage would never get repaired. I understand a healthy balance must be reached.

Yep that is alrite. The immune system is both a builder and a destroyer at the same time. In my case the action was a bit heavy on the destroy side. I didnt shut the immune system down alltogether- that would be suicidal. I just toned down the activity a bit.
Same thing as in my asthma. I take inhaled GCs to lessen the bronchial constriction brought on by excessive inflammation.
The immune system is very complicated and I certainly dont understand it well enough to go into detail. T-cells, macrophages, cytokines, prostaglandins, toll-like receptors. Its a fuckin maze.
Ohnoyo might be more knowledgeable in this area.
Btw, I discussed my plan of treatment with an orthopedic surgeon befor starting it. He said " you gotta do what you gotta do" , which I took as somewhat as an agreement considering that the treatment was certainly not AMA approved.